how about this~~!

[releap 0]

GRAF supra 705 Boots

with

Schankel Frame (Gravity : very low,,like kuzak split Axletype: 1axle Frame Design : Mission Frame)

[xunkn0vvnx 0]

sweet setup... when did they start making those frames ??

[MDE3 0]

Are they paying royalties to Mission, or is this a Euro designed frame, which for some reason is not covered under the Mission owned "split axle plane" patent? Or was this built prior to Mission purchasing the patent(s)?

[Jim A 4]

not sure entirely..but many a time patents that are upheld in the US are denied in the rest of the world....

k2 vs Salomon a good example where they only had to modify their skates here..

[asdfa 0]

what is that plastic stuff you have on the outside of your boot? i thought 705's were all black

[Chadd 916]

what is that plastic stuff you have on the outside of your boot? i thought 705's were all black

The "techno" 705 had silver side panels

[jay 1]

I believe the frame is Korean... a google for Schankel returned only results from Korean sites anyway.

[MDE3 0]

True about the Asian recognition of US patents.....which is another reason why so many US companies have started using Chinese and Korean companies to manufacture their designs...saves having to fight them in the market place. However if the goods being sold are in conflict with US patent rights, and are being imported into the USA, an injunction can be issued to the importer forcing them to "cease and desist" the sales of said goods, or be responsible for restitution.

The problem may simply be that the legal costs to effect the injunction may be substantially greater than the material losses from sales of a limited number of chassis.

[releap 0]

^^

Skates is sample product.

Do NOT SALE

and I heared that they are paid royality to Mission

[stevoc 0]

Those look sweet!

Are these the same chassis the ones on the Mission Mod 4 skates?

Mission Mod 4 ebay auction

[releap 0]

not the same.

chassis Back wheel(Gravity) is lower than general mission chassis.

[stevoc 0]

If I am seeing this correctly, the wheels on the picture above are all 78 mm. Is that correct?

[jay 1]

That's the durometer of the Rink Rats. It's pretty clearly a high-low design.

So did this sample product come from Graf or the frame manufacturer?

[MDE3 0]

Well they look like either 76/72's or 72/68's (like the Kuzac) and I know Mission was fooling around with the smaller wheel set up earlier this year....going the opposite direction from Tour with their all 80 mm wheels on the Labeda Hum'er chassis....not sure what Mission ended up with as a standard on the Heliums though.

[releap 0]

wheel setup is 72,72,80,80

but not the same mission.

mission frame has so high back wheel(maby 5~8mm).

finally mission frame good to tight turn.

but not good to stop, and not good to fast transition.

then many inline player prefer Redstar Hilo than mission hilo.

because, in redstar frame case, the center of gravity is flat...

but mission frame like high heel.

if you used both frame, maybe you feel it.

[stevoc 0]

That's the durometer of the Rink Rats. It's pretty clearly a high-low design.

Doh! My eyes deceived me. I thought they looked hi/lo....but got caught up in the numbers. I even have a set and failed to realize it. Thanks!

[anotherlin 0]

mission frame has so high back wheel(maby 5~8mm).

finally mission frame good to tight turn.

but not good to stop, and not good to fast transition.

then many inline player prefer Redstar Hilo than mission hilo.

because, in redstar frame case, the center of gravity is flat...

but mission frame like high heel.

Has other people had skated both red star and mission chassis?

I'm currently in the process of buying skates with red star chassis.

I'm just curious, how different is the feel?

I'll find out in a week by skating with them, but I don't like surprises :)

[MDE3 0]

There are some height and weight differences between the HiLo's but I do not think they are nearly as dramatic as you are worried about. Worry more whether the chassis is made from 7000 or 6000 aluminum....7000 is much stronger and more difficult to bend(stopping shots). If you want maximum stopping power, acceleration and speed go with the Labeda Hum'ers...big difference. All 80 mm wheels, but same low profile and pitch when mounted correctly.

[jay 1]

I prefer the Red Star to the Mission slightly. The pitch is a little bit flatter and they also feel a tad lower to me but really, it's apples and oranges. I could easily go back to the Generator with little adjustment and be perfectly happy.

I'm VERY interested in this Schankel frame though... looks nice. Unfortuantely there's no way my boots could handle yet another drilling.

[releap 0]

i skated many frame

(Kuzak split, Mission VIBE1,Mission Generator,D1cframe, Labeda Hummer,Sensor,Easton Bigwheel, Redstar E-Frame,Bauer Shifter, CCM Pf6 Frame(72,76,76,80))

every player has his style.

some player really like to run,

some player really like to Stride,

some player like to Short turn.

some player like to Stop..

how about you?

if chassis has flat gravity , easy to quick transition and easy to stop.

the other hand, if chasis like high hill shoes, easy to tight turn.

and if chasis has low gravity, not to speedy, good to aggressive.

i think

turn skill

easton big wheel>mission hilo>redstar or kuzak>hummer>sensor

stride skill

sensor>hummer>eastonbigwheel>redstar>mission

run skill

redstar=mission>eastonbigwheel>hummer>sensor

stop & transition

kuzak>redstar>estonbigwheel>hummer>sensor>mission

[releap 0]

little height has really diffrence .

have you think?

80m-72mm = just 8mm

Tuuk, and Cobra Ice Blade holder ,,,== just ??

Your wheel was wear down...

just 5~8mm diffrence.

try it ,, if you has hummer -> 76,76,76,76 setting.

try it,, if you has hilo ->68,68,72,72 setting.

it just 8mm...

[thunderbirds_are_go 0]

It's not 8mm, it's 4mm height difference (or 2mm going from 80mm to 76mm) as the sizes are the diameter of the wheel, and half of that is above the axel, and so won't affect the overall height.

[MDE3 0]

Grip ultimately controls many of those skills your refer to, so why would chassis' with less grip, give you A) a better stride, B) Better turning C) Better stopping? Manoueverability is something which good skaters learn to adapt to, and they will be agile on almost any skate if it has grip. All I can say is that anyone I know who took the time to get the feel of the Hum'ers and when they go back to try their old set ups, will always go back to their Hum'ers..so great is the advantage in speed, stopping and acceleration.

Grip is controlled by the quality of the wheels, and the size of the "wheel patch" in contact with the floor. If all the chassis are compared on the same floors, with identical wheels, then why would the Hum'er be rated lower in any of those characteristics when they have the largest "contact patch"? Granted pitch on a skate is personal preference, and certainly could affect your stride, so switching to skates which have a different "pitch" could affect your feel and your balance, and so the rest of your skating. However once you get used to a skate(if you take the time), only then can you truly compare the performance charateristics.

[releap 0]

my used skate.

Bauer vapor t2p4 (shifter)

Bauer vapor 6 (rocker)

mission 02 Vr,Wicked Light VIBE,04 d1c

WickedLight with Kuzak, D1c With Kuzak

Nike quest 1 Hilo

Tour g-90

Tour beemer

CCM 05 Pf6

PF6 with Easton Big Wheel

Graf 609 with Big Wheel

....

i agee your grip and dispatch comment

but..

for example,

speed inlineskate use long frame and big wheel for better grip.

finally, speed skate easy to Fast speed.

but speed skate is not dynamic(can't Fast move).

imporant thing is Active moving.

2 years ago, i asked about Hilo-frame to Mission.

Mission sad

"Big Wheel Maintain Top Speed about long time"

"Small wheel quickly accelerate speed"

This is Hilo Technology.

Beemer Frame has good ablity about (maintain top speed,Great grip)

because it has all 80mm wheel.

on the other hand , small wheel has good rebound

let it guess ..

Why easton located small wheel to Back position?

(72.68.80.72)

because tight turn...

[MDE3 0]

Who are you playing for to get to try all those skates? Are you by chance going to be playing for Raue wiith one of the new MLRH teams in Virginia?

All I know is that while the rebound is very important, 5 wheel speed skates will give you greater push and acceleration, as well as lower rolling resistance if used with the right wheel combination. However with the 5 x 80 mm wheels of a speed skate spread out over an even longer footprint (wheel spacing on speed skates is usually even greater than on hockey skates....making for a very long footprint) there is no doubt that you will lose lateral agility.

While the Hum'er chassis have big wheels, their "footprint"...meaning the distance from the center of the contact patch of the lead wheel, to the center of the contact patch on the back wheel, is still the same as a HiLo chassis for the same boot size..at least from about a size eight boot and up. Their height above the floor is also about the same...even lower than some HiLo's at the heel.

It IS important with skates equipped with the Hum'er chassis to use harder wheels than stock if you are a skater with a very aggressive skating style (I mean a hard driving power skater..not a "runner"). The deflection of the wheels you can generate from the added grip (larger contact patch) will increase.

If you do not go "up" in durometer when using the Hum'er chassis, this added deflection will make the wheels of the softer durometer seem "mushy". This will affect your agility as well as your acceleration, and the overall feel of the skate. The stock Beemer comes equipped with the X-Soft "pro Dynasties" which have a very soft outer surface (maybe 64 A on the outer pour) and very decent grip. However these wheels will deflect more than the 62/78 RR Hornets in our experience (as opposed to what I have been told by Labeda).... which have the harder material on the outside, and have a higher "net" durometer than the Dynasty Pros. The same would be true with the X-Soft Milleniums, which probably have a "thru" durometer close to 70A.

If you did not change the wheels, then you may have found the skate did not respond quite the way everyone claims. The heavier and more powerfull skater you are, then the more noticable this mushy effect will be with the stock wheels.