Graf Skates Experience with Ultra G35

[skates89 0]

I am new here and this is in fact my first post. Id like to start off by saying thanks to anyone on here who can help me and of course long live hockey lol

I am playing the game a very long time now Played Junior A in the early 80s and Minor pro in the Mid 80sI have lived through many ears both pre lockout and post lockout and of course I have played with all sorts of equipment over the years. My question or problem seems to be this. I have tried the bauer 7000s when they first came out. One of the first stiff boots I ever had. Up until that point I wore a lot of bauers leather low cut boots etcs such as the bauer 4000 and 3000s.

A friend of mine gave me a pair of bauer X60s free. he plays for the albany devils currently. The skates I had previously for the past 8 or 9 years where Graf 705s with Bauer tuuks. I simply loved those skates. I could spin on adime turn off my heels and feel the skate on my foot. With these new x60s that wasnt the case. To give a simple anaology I felt they where like wearing Herman munsters boots ( where is the flex ) I had to take an eyelit down on lacing these up and I have never felt as agile in these types of skates at all. Part of my skating and game is to get in the zone then pivot and makes moves actually off my ankles. I cannot seem to to that with x60s no matter how much I contour the blades. So Im considering going back to Grafs and it has been a long time since I purchased a pair. What I want to know from anyone with experience who may have had the 705s is how do they compare to liek the G35 2010 model or even 2011 Model which I seem to like in the pictures of them. How will they flex forward and will they have a little give in the ankle area when twisting and shifting off the heals? Are they similar in build but lighter? I need to get back to my Grafs. I am not knocking the new technology but to be honest i skate off my ankles thats how I learned and I feel I can do way more with those types of skates than these solid composite skates today. I need to some flex in the boots both forward and from side to side somewhat.

One other thing I also took up Roller hockey ( holy god that is another story ) I like it for the conditioning thats about it and Im not knocking roller hockey players but sorry it is not the same at all as many well know. i have a pair of the bauer x4s and they are a similar boot and because they are so heavy and stiff I got a high ankle sprain and this has pissed me off to no end and is why I need to get back to grafs on Ice and throw the roller baldes in the garbage lol In short thanks to anyone who took the time to read this and who may be able to help me. i have a ton of questions and I know there are a lot of very informed members here..Thanks again for any help

Mike

[innotastic 12]

the g35s are stiffer than 705s. not having skated in the g35s they're supposed to mimic the bauer supreme series composite skates.

the graf 7 series are unique in the hockey world in that they have that soft upper part of the boot that allows for so much ankle mobility. you're not like to find that in another $500 skate.

[skates89 0]

Ah ok so glad I asked this question. That I definitely do not want So I should stay in the 7 series then. Are they even making them anylonger. That soft upper part of the boot is exactly what Im looking for and complaining about and I just got done looking around the site and found this article. Amazing but I knew I wasnt halucinating. I cannot imagine how many skaters with these stiffs boots would do better with less stiffness in some areas. I know the deeper the knee bend the more power I could generate and I could never generate enough of a knee bend in x60s so matter how hard I tried. I posted a link to the article below. Thanks again and any information on these different grafs and what I can expect is so appreciated as I dont want to buy the wrong pair of skates. The only think I never liked about those 705s was the weight, man they could get heavy especially with water they took on

http://www.stcatharinesstandard.ca/2011/10/18/building-a-better-skate

[sohoman 0]

I have the Graf 705s which I got after having skated on Bauer 7000 Supreme's. It was the other way around for me. I got used to wearing ultra stiff concrete galoshes (that most skates these days seem to be) and then going to skates that allowed your ankles to completely flex was quite awkward for me at first. It reminded me of ankle skating as a kid (lol!). I did however find out that I was now able to dig my skate edges deeply into the ice by merely flexing my ankles as opposed to having to otherwise flex my knees and then counter balance with my hips which requires greater effort and makes you less agile. It made me realize how important ankle flex is so when I do skate with the Bauer's (the boots seem to fit better than the Grafs which is why I still often wear them) I now lace them up very, very loose and that seems to do the trick.

[sohoman 0]

I forgot to mention in my last post that I too roller blade and again my experience with that was opposite to yours. All my ice skating short comings seem to vanish the moment I put roller blades on. I joined a competitive roller hockey league abut 10 years ago and dominated from the very start whereas on ice I am nowhere near as good although I am slowly improving and that has more to do with tinkering with my skates than anything else. I had a deja vu moment the other day when I got my skates sharpened and I happen to notice that the gauge that was used to check my radius was 9'. I remember asking the skate sharpener when I first got the skates to give me a long radius which I expected to be around 11'. So I asked him to re profile them for 11' and as soon as I got onto the ice I had an Oh God moment. I immediately got the balance that I had been lacking for so long on ice that I had on roller blades because of the longer wheel base. The only thing was at first I had problems stopping as I had that much more blade contacting the ice that I was experiencing blade chatter but got over that with one skating session. Maybe what you need to do is change the setup on your roller blades to give you a shorter radius to more closely mimic an ice skate? Or maybe you can try and get a hold of a pair of Tuuk Rockers which have a floating chassis that are much more ice skate like in their performance. Hope this is of help.

Ted

[wetwilly17 6]

newer generation 705s are lighter. if you spray water repellent on your skates, they won't get so heavy in the third period and will last longer as well. when i was playing 5 times a week, i would spray my skates every other week. i think the only water the skates retained were due to my sweat and i've noticed that i really build up snow on my skates compared to others - maybe because i stop more i don't know.

regarding inline hockey...you will have more fun as soon as you give up on trying to get your teammates to play ice style. i know it is frustrating, which is why i don't take inline too seriously.

the newer graf outsoles (texalite) supposedly do not handle conversions to inline chassis very well. someone on here even reported that graf switzerland even recommended against it and that if you wanted to convert them, you would need to special order the old white plastic outsole (not sure what it is called).

i don't believe the boot was the problem when you sprained you ankle playing inline, especially since you say the boot was more supportive. you just have to skate differently on inline even if you get something like sprungs or a tuuk rocker chassis. i'm guessing you injured your ankle stopping - inline stopping is completely different. before you try hockey stopping on both inline skates, try swinging your outer skate out wide to hockey stop and don't worry about the inner one. its really more of a wide motion versus ice which just takes a quick turn of the ankles/feet,

[skates89 0]

Hey ted

thanks so much for the info. Ha ha to funny we are both the opposite in some ways great we can both learn something. Yeah one trick is to drop an eyelit and glad you can see the value in flexing the ankles. As you can see your knees are automatically put into an unlock position with flex int he ankle area which puts you intoa more pronounced position to skate hard off the balls of your feet. If you practice a great deal of agility moves and learn to use all aspects of your edges you become extremely agile. Im gonna post a video link below of what I think a great skater looks like and of someone who understands the art of skating and is in fact an artist doing it. id like to see someone do this in a buaer x60. I doubt they can. The boot locks yoru ankles up to much and doesnt allow for that flex. After you look a this video you imagine being in a tight corer on this guy and realize just how fast he can pivot and shake most any skater. I wont say I was as good as this guy but Ill say I understand every pivot he is making and I definitely use my edges very similarly. I feel there is something to be learned that is missing in the art of skating today. It really has become a very straight up and down linear game and Im wondering if this art is being lost.

Also yes the longer radius will give you the balance and speed and a little less agility I actualy like an 8 in the front and 9 to the back but im gonna try an 11 in the back with a 9 in the front soon. Yeah I probably need smaller wheels and I need to realize i will never experience the shiftiness of Ice in any remote way and deal with it

Ok here is the link to the skater. Watch this guy skate and learn. trust me if you can do half of this, you will be smoking players all over the place. This is a very talented skater and this is how to skate. if you study him closely youll see he skates off his heels a great deal and gets so low, you cannot get that low on herman munster boots and shift and then pivot. You have to have ankle flex and if you notice he skates like this in some old leather grafs

[Chadd 916]

The G35 is a little stiffer than the 705, but not nearly like the X60 is/was.The Ultra G5 is a nice combination of the old 705 with modern materials too. Unfortunately, skate makers have gone to stiffer and stiffer boots over the years and many consumers think stiffer = better, so it isn't likely to change any time soon. The RBK11k and 20k also have a little more flex and softer ankle than most of the top end Bauer skates too. I really miss the Mission Supplefit style, with a very stiff bottom and softer ankle, it really was a great mix of performance and comfort.

[skates89 0]

Wetwilly17

thanks so much for the news of the new 705s being lighter. i was hoping that would be the case and Ill definitely take you up on the repellant as i noticed this also through the years the boots would take on water like a plant. Funny you mention that as i have the old grafs with the white outsoles so Im good to go there for a conversion and last but not least you are 100 percent right. I hurt the ankle stopping. My body is so accustomed to ice that I have a hard time accepting that none of the start stop pivots ability is ever really going to be there and trust me like you say I wont be taking it seriously at all. Im glad for the kids who play at least they have hockey and some of them and really very good but, Im only gonna use it for conditioning. I tried everything to get the ice hockey feel but no way and I accept it. i dont think Ill ever sprain my ankle agaiin but who knows and thanks so much I do have to stop expecting everyone to play an Ice game cause its not as we well know but Ill say this the conditioning aspect is awesome cause it is free and you can do it anytime and be outside which I do love

[skates89 0]

Hey chad your right also with respect to thinking stiffer is better. A lot of todays skaters even in the NHL are linear skaters now as a result of having grown up in these stiff boots, they have learned to skate and shift off their hips. Im sorry but there is no way they are gonna be more agile shifting from the hip verses skating from the ankles. i was watching a bunch of nhl players last week here on the Island Higgins gilroy and a bunch of prospects and they all look the same coming down the wing straight down with a a slight shift here or there and a shot. No coming into the middle and pivoting turning and shaking players down the middle. It is either you blow by them and get the shot or pass off and retreat and repeat the same again. In my opinion a skate should be designed as you mention with a good bit of the support into the bottom and slightly n the sides and some flexibility also in terms of leather. What a perfect blend. The art of true skating starts with learning how to use your ankles to shift and turn not your hips. I could be wrong but im not to sure about that. Thanks so much for th advice on the skates it is all good news to hear and Im glad I asked and didnt just run out the door and buy skates as i wanted so badly to do

[Chadd 916]

Sounds like you would have loved the Mission S or AG series skates, much like I do.

[skates89 0]

Hmm I wonder chad, probably would have. Shame you cant stand at a rink for two days and try every dam pair of skates out there ha ha Drove me crazy these past few years the money I have spent since my grafs shit the bed and all my buddies suggested these or those skates ha ha. I wish. Well this has been very helpfull and Im narroing down what Ill be looking for. either the 705s 735s or even G5 sounds like it might just be the ideal skate. Im gonna take my time and Im open to all suggestions. You say they dont make those mission s or ag series anylonger ha

[greyskull 21]

I've got a pair of the new graf 705's though mine are a bit weird as they're oversized; BUT coming from my last pair of skates, which were Bauer 4000's (black and red) the amount of forward flex on these is ridiculous. I couldn't skate worth a damn when I first got them.

But they have made me a much stronger skater.

[sohoman 0]

Hey Mike,

I liked the Victor Baryshevtsev video so much I bought the DVD! I was taking lunch time figure skating lessons from an ex Soviet Ice dancing champion for a while as it was convenient but it turned out to be a blessing as he was the first instructor to really emphasis proper use of edges. BTW re your issues with trying to play inline Ala ice style I know what you mean. I watch the way most inline hockey players (sorry if I offend any inline players our there!) skate both on concrete and ice and think what a god awful style. Also I've never seen a bigger bunch of puck hogging floaters in all my playing days and that includes road hockey where I think hogs first started to breed lol! Upright with legs bowed as if they are riding a horse but they do seem to have it over their ice hockey counterparts when it comes to ball/puck skills. Man they have good hands! Also I think I know why I do well with roller hockey. We play on outdoors basket ball asphalt which is very smooth but with grit like sandpaper. Very fast surface much faster than indoor sports court but is very hard on wheels and sticks but that is where it is also a blessing. Within no time the front and back wheels get worn down so that I end up with a pretty decent ice skate like rocker (albeit a long one which is perfect for me).

Ted

Hey Mike,

I liked the Victor Baryshevtsev video so much I bought the DVD! I was taking lunch time figure skating lessons from an ex Soviet Ice dancing champion for a while as it was convenient but it turned out to be a blessing as he was the first instructor to really emphasis proper use of edges. BTW re your issues with trying to play inline Ala ice style I know what you mean. I watch the way most inline hockey players (sorry if I offend any inline players our there!) skate both on concrete and ice and think what a god awful style. Also I've never seen a bigger bunch of puck hogging floaters in all my playing days and that includes road hockey where I think hogs first started to breed lol! Upright with legs bowed as if they are riding a horse but they do seem to have it over their ice hockey counterparts when it comes to ball/puck skills. Man they have good hands! Also I think I know why I do well with roller hockey. We play on outdoors basket ball asphalt which is very smooth but with grit like sandpaper. Very fast surface much faster than indoor sports court but is very hard on wheels and sticks but that is where it is also a blessing. Within no time the front and back wheels get worn down so that I end up with a pretty decent ice skate like rocker (albeit a long one which is perfect for me).

Ted

[skates89 0]

Hey Ted

Thats to funny. Good for you. I train some players and have worked with many players over the years. In fact the guy inthe picture on the left is my Buddy who plays for the Albany Devils in the AHL We train together in the summer.

Well it seems you do have the right skates to do a lot of learning in with that video and trust me if you focus on skill developemnt you can accelerate learning. That is what I found in my development. Skills that takes years to figure out when focused on intently during practice can be picked up in a shorter time

Oh and ha ha puck hogging floaters, to funny. yeah i think I figured it out for the roller. I mounted a tour chasis to my old grafs and I have been skating well but im never taking that seriously and I dont knock it. if I was growing up again id be cross training with roller when there was no Ice because you can get some skill development there and if anything conditioning. Well best of luck with the DVD and let us know what you think of it. How much was it by the way?

Also I have been looking at the skates and wanted to know thoughts on the 735IX I see out there. Thanks again everyone has been so helpful

[skates89 0]

Ok so i have narrowed it down to the 705s//I am an 8 in Bauer and I can even use a 7.5 but it is a little snug. Can anyone offer a comparison as to what size I might want in the graphs. I plan to buy on ebay and if they dont fit Ill just relist them so Im not worried about that. My foot seems to be a D width in bauers and measures out the same with a little lean on a E width. I guess I am asking what the relationship is with respect to Bauer and Grafs. They seem to be similar

[wetwilly17 6]

i wear 8 in bauer and 8.5 in graf. the two lengths are so close that i can't tell a difference in length.

however, if you are at the limit of the size 8 bauers, you might have an issue with 8.5 grafs: i don't know about the 705s, but the 703s have a much smaller volume toebox than your bauer vapors. i'm pretty sure the 705s would have the same toebox as 703s.

[skates89 0]

Thanks Wetwilly17

I have a tiny bit of toe room in an 8 in bauer so Ill probably be able to fit into the 8 Grafs which is what I believe the size was that I had before mine craped out. I still have the old ones but have no way of reading what size they where. I have looked every where nothing. The 8s I think I had where snug as hell but comfy and just right. I never had any pain. I did have tuuks in them however and I see they come with different holders with more pitch. Ill try it out on them and may like it as I do like a forward pitch. If anything Ill be back in my garfs and see where it goes from there. I will say the skates I have now arent to bad at all I have the MLX and with one eyelit down they feel like a low cut boot. I might put some felt toungs in them and keep them as i havent been overly disapointed with them but Ill definitely be able to tell the difference when I get he grafs and Im not sure Ill ever go back to anything else. We will see. So far thanks to everyone for all their help. The people on this board are very knowledgeable and I appreciate everything as it has helped me to make a decision to stay with what worked for me and not move up to the G series. Thank you

[sohoman 0]

Funny thing happened last week. I took a slap shot in the foot (actually the puck hit the skate blade)and broke the steel in two. One of my team mates had a spare pair of Easton Stealth S7's in an 8.0 EE. I normally wear 8.5 W or EE. They are the snuggest skates I have ever worn and they also have plenty of flex to boot. The chassis length is the next size down (272 mm) and at first I could literally feel the blades under my feet. I found I was able to flex my ankles around tight corners so much that my boots were rubbing against the ice but the edges were still holding comfortably. I couldn't believe it. What I lost in glide I more than picked up in the bite/push part of each stride. They were also as light as any skates I have ever worn. My only complaint (and this isn't the skates fault) is that the shorter blade length in conjunction with the holy shit small rocker made it feel like I was on a child's rocking horse so before coming to a hockey stop I had to remember to get up onto my toes coz otherwise I was going to take a tumble. As a result I kind of shied away from the boards for the rest of the game lol! I have to officiate tomorrow so I will wear them again and depending if I can get used to the rocker I might possibly wear them again for this Sunday's game. I'm now beginning to think that you have to try on every model of every brand before you can find the perfect skate!

Ted

[skates89 0]

Ha ha Ted to funny. The perfect skate yeah exactly. Im telling you. Amazing. I have been hacking up my MLXs trying to get that right feel myself. I think I figured one thing out. I installed felts toung and heel lift. I think this will put me back onto the balls of my feet and the felt tounge allows for more forward flex as opposed to the standard toung which has this plastic in it which stops the skate from flexing.

See I need that bite push part of each stride you are talking about as that is where I pick up my speed and I need that knee bend also. I think Ill be buying a few brands off ebay in the future if I can get them cheap enough. I figure Ill try a few models but If I get these mlx skates to perform 80 percent of what I could do with my grafs Ill be happy. My feet fit so well in these mlx heel lock is great. The composite material around the boot gives it a ton of stability and they are a lower cut boot which is why I bought them. The company went out of business but these things are so well built you could throw them out of an airplane and i think they would survive no problems. Ill know wendsday night as Im going to a puck shoot just to check them out. I know the feel I want and I havent had it in two years but I know im getting closer and thank God the day I can finally have that feel back

Its true it seems like there are a ton of skates we all need to try out. If there where a store in new york with every model out there and they charged a hundred bucks to spend the day just trying the skates out on the rink Id pay it gladly. Nevertheless as a result of the web and everyone here and the articles I have read here on skates i have learned a ton I never knew. Hopefully Ill resolve this soon. I resolved my stick issues awhile back and that took sometime. Man this is a pain in the ass

[sohoman 0]

Well now I'm back on my Grafs with my newly fitted T-Blades. I didn't realize at the time but the Easton's not only had a <9' radius but had a 3/8" hollow. When I decided to just try my Grafs again to make a quick comparison after reffing a game I couldn't believe what I had experienced. The T Blades actually glide on top of the ice, where as the Eastons dug into the ice even while gliding. Fortunately the 705's let me really flex my boots otherwise I don't think I could get enough edge to properly corner or stop. I'll get the blades on the Bauers fixed but I think I will finally settle on the Grafs as I now finally appreciate being able to laterally flex my ankles. Sticks! Tell me about them. I can never get a stick with the right lie. I need severe toe down or high lie angle. I think I need a lie 3 if there is such a lie. Only way around is to cut the stick down which gives me the right lie but then it's too short for shooting and the flex is also affected. What have you learned?

[skates89 0]

So now your killing me man lol Back on your grafs ha ha. I was up till all hours researching these grafs the g7 model the 707 etc. Im just wondering if these new g7s actually flex forward and a little laterally like the 705s of old. Lord this is a kiler but its ok Ill take my time and do all the research and learn from you guys as I go along and then oneday Ill know exactly what to get. I do know im a medium instep and im a size 8 in grafs and it doesnt matter I can take a straight back or a pronounced heel so thats pretty good so far at least I know that much ha ha and Ill probably want some tuuks with a lift in the heel but if anyone has the G7s and they can tell me how they perform flex wise relative to the old 705s Id appreciate that. See thats the thing with these composite skates. I always feel in tight corners or moving out that Im biteing the edges digging to deep into the Ice and I have a shallow hollow to boot. Youll notice the more pitchyou have forward flext etc the less of a deep hollow you need and the more glid you get as a result with actually increased bite do to the weight being transfered so stronly from the forward body stance. Lord Im jealous now that you got your grafs ha ha lol. I woke up this morning saying ok take your time close down the research windows and just deal with what you have now and go from there keep researching and narrow everything down till you find that perfect skate and wham you get on here and tell me how happy you are ha ha. You just uped my OCD symptoms LOL

Ok as for the sticks. Oh lord another isssue all together. When I put those x60s on that my buddy who plays for the albany devils gave me. My stick handling went out the window along with my shiftiness I now realize why but then I could not figure it out. The new being straight up on the skate feel coupled with the radius of the blade and the fact that I felt pitched back had a lot to do with it not to mention the no lateral flex. So i started on aquest to get the right shot off as I felt I lost power in my shot. I bought an RS stealth and I lie to you not I put it through the net man that thing could let go of a bullet. I have stuck them in the net but never threw the net. Still wasnt happy as the flex point as you know on these sticks is a lower kick point. I found this odd and troubling fo r me to deal with even though I swear I was picking corners better than ever. Problem is with my skating style deep knee bends crouched aggressive etc. I like a mid kick point stick and i like useing shafts and the lightest blade possible which for me used to be the iginla focus flex z carbon. Thing weighs about 138 grams something like that and with a mid flexing shaft I can place that puck where I want it in close which is usually top corner and when I snapped off a shot while on the move there is no backswing on my release. Its all on the go while turning and then wham. Few goalies i have meet when its right can catch up, it definitely catches them off guard.

So when my mid flex shaft broke I was stuck with trying to find a shaft that flexed in middle and a replacement blade. Well after tons of research yeah there was the bauer one95 and although that shaft flexed it was a tapered shaft and I could not cut the shaft at th fuse point and still be left with enough stick to short then. Im nto even sure but I think they make a tapered shaft but im cheap also and dont want to spend the money. I like buying shafts cheap broken and making them myself anything with a tapered fuse point so I can put my new Easton SE16 Tapered blade into the shaft. You cannot believe how light this blade is 130 grams. For me everything is about lightness and the blade is durable as hell.

Ok having solved the blade problem I had a ton of 100 flex broken composite sticks in my shed but 100 flex is not the flex I like at 185 to 190 pounds 5'10. It is simply to stiff for me to load up. I really like a 70 to 80 flex 85 is standard but I find a 77 to 83 is best for me at where i cut my sticks so how the fn hell am i gonna find these flexes yeah they are out there but you have to buy them new at least the 77s and there is no 83s. So oneday im walking by the shed looking at my shafts and thinking what a damn shame. i got everything I need here but the fn flexes are to stiff. Im all over ebay researching everything and seeing that Im gonna have to change my patterns etc. The only thing close to my iginla pattern is the Kane and Im not in love with it. So low and behold i come up with a genius idea and Im not to sure many people have thought of this or do this especially to composites ( I know in the old days they did it with wood ) but being the engineer that I am I realize that if i shave the corners of the shaft at the mid point i will increase the flex at that point. Thats right this is a genious idea of mine ha ha lol A bulb goes off and the skies part as i realize the grand nature of my idea.

So I bust out the palm sander and some 100 grit and start sanding down the corners of the shaft at the mid point of the shaft all 4 corners. I sand about a foot and a half of each corner and as i do this I keep checking the flex. I notice right away that ,my idea is working wonderfully. Of course I dont want to sand through the entire corner or go to far that there is to much flex so after a bit I stop and realize its time to try it out. Of course i sand up with 220 and then 400 and the thing is as round and smooth as ever with a custom built flex point by me and then I spray it all black with trim paint from the auto store, nice matt finish. I actually tape off a few spots where the logo si so that comes through.

You know these new sticks the dual flex points in them. Well I dont even bother to buy them. i actually buy 100 flex composites for like 20 bucks on ebay and sand my own flex points into them. You cannot believe what a shot I get with these sticks. so for 20 bucks for the shaft and 35 for the blade I build a stick that is as good as any current technology and even better is the feeling that it has been built by me for me.

If I feel to much flex I come home and sand just a little more off the corners until I have it right. So now I have solved my problems of a lighter stick with the flex points i want that will take my tapered blade ( thats after I cut to the fusion point ). With what I have in this stick it is as light as any bauer total one or even apx. balanced like crazy and just feels unreal. i will never need to buy a new stick. What I build is better than what they sell or at least dam near close.

Another thing if you feel the stick is to blade heavy I came up with another idea. I stole eastons idea and put my own weights into the top of the stick ( a few pennies tapped together and shove it in the to and then wrap a littie tap so it doesnt fall down the shaft. Try it sometime. Find the center point of balance on a shaft, hold it with one finger then insert the weight into the top and watch the blade move up. This creats a lighter blade feel for softer hands. I know I have gone on with this but if i can teach somebody something that will help them or other then its worth it.

There is a lot to this but I do have to say. I love every stick I have now. They are all made by me and they are lighter than hell and very durable. I have not broken one yet. I have a video of a shot i took with one of these things ( Ill try to upload it sometime ) and its clear to see the thing launces like no other. The feel of the stick is awesome light and contoured around the hands. Of course with all other things there are things to learn but it is that idea that taught me something and it occured to me that shaving the corners of the shaft would not only reduce stiffness and turn a 100 flex down but it would also reduce weight

Ok with that as for the Lie well I like the iginla pattern 5.5 1/2 mid curve. From what i see you like the puck outside of your body. I stick handle in tight as I like to poke the puck through the holes and not have to go around the players with the puck ( another lost art ) but when I think about it I could easily change the lie also with a sander, especially on wooden blades Hmmmm. If you dont have orbital sander you might want to buy one soho lol It is one fun tool with a shaft and blades you can do a lot I probably want to make a sticky of this as this will save peoplea ton of money with respect to buying new sticks cause it is to stiff. I even countour the composite blades with it. Im gonna take a picture of my composite stick and load the video of this shot I get off. It truly is amazing. Ill figure this out and get back here later. Got to make some money now for my habit. Looking forward ttys

[wetwilly17 6]

skates89 since you like flexible, you should buy these: http://dallas.craigslist.org/ftw/spo/3186690938.html

haha just kidding...why not go with the 705s again?

[danno25nh 3]

skates89 since you like flexible, you should buy these: http://dallas.craigs...3186690938.html

*sigh* I had those when they were new.....

[sohoman 0]

Yep I would have ankle skated on a pair of those (more probably because they would have been to big because of my wide fee) back when ankle skating was taboo. Funny how things evolve and then come around again in time. In those days professional players usually experienced a lot more ankle problems than they do today. Now they experience knees problems. I've had both and I would prefer a weak ankle than a weak knee any day of the week:)