Goalie skate sharpening issue

[XBIGJIMX 0]

Hey I am new to playing goalie (3 games total) I just bough a pair of CCM u+ pros and had them sharpened for the first time. I asked for a 1" hollow thinking I would not be worrying so much about the edges catching. Actually i pretty much figured they would like be sliding as easy as TOm cruse across a hard wood floor in risky buisness. So I try them on after knocking any burs off with a paint stick. As I step out on the ice I literly could not push left to right to skate. I could "shave the ice" if I tried but that was it. As the pro shop was closed I jumped off the ice to run the blade down the board out side the ice and after about 20 passes I could make it to the crease. But as far as playing any lateral movment was done by picking up my feet and stepping left or right. Now For the first game I borrowed a pair of goalie skates and the next game I used my player skates while I waited for these to arrive. Now in the other 2 pair i had ok side to side movment nothing great but alright. THis was crazy so I guess my question is.

Is this normal or maybe a bad sharpening job?

Is there a way to check the hollow to see if it is right?

Suggestions cause at this rate I am going to break my neck

For the record I am 6'2" and 209lbs and an average skater when playing wing

[Law Goalie 147]

Might want to bump this to the Goalie section...

So game one was in borrowed goalie skates, game two was in player skates; in both cases, you had decent but not great 'side to side movement' by which I assume you mean shuffling -- moving laterally while keep the toes of the skates and the plane of the body facing the puck.

1" is an extremely shallow ROH for a goalie these days; 1/2" is now pretty common, and a lot of guys go down to 3/8". It's possible that you got 1/2" instead of 1" if the sharpener wasn't listening, or was too lazy to change the setup. Since standard goalies blades (Bauer One-series, Reebok 9K, and newer Grafs aside) are about 30% wider than player blades, any given ROH/FBV is actually deeper on goalie blades, since the edges end up being significantly longer as the shape of the hollow is carved into the wider blade. And because the profile of goalie blades is significantly longer (22' to 100', and usually around 30', as opposed to 9'-13' for a player), there's more of that deeper ROH/FBV in contact with the ice. So, to answer your first question, A) it is normal for the same ROH/FBV to 'feel sharper' on goalie skates than on player skates, and B) it could be a 'bad' sharpening.

Only way to check the hollow is to have tools capable of measuring it, which generally means taking them to a shop.

Part of the reason you feel like you're going to break your neck is that balance in goalie skates is much, much lower: moving from player to goalie is like having an inch chopped out of your tibia, and then trying to play tennis. However, I can tell you that for goalies moving to player skates, the effect is much worse: like a horrible, sudden lapse back into the athletic discombobulations of puberty, when you're try to use your skeleton without realising the damn thing had got bigger again.

As for suggestions, there's a basic flaw in your thinking about how goalies move. Even in the days of goalies using 1 1/2" and 2" hollows, shuffling as a skating movement has always been reserved for *short* lateral adjustments. If you're 'sliding like Tom Cruise', you're misusing the technique. What you want to do is more like a James Brown 'shuffle': a million little movements of the foot that make it 'seem' like he's gliding sideways across the stage. For longer, gliding movements (eg. following a pass) you want to use T-pushes -- a movement which, like butterfly transitions, recoveries, and slides, as well as C-cuts, makes the most of longer, sharp edges. (Of course, when using a T-push as a goalie, you want to keep your torso, hands, stick, and eyes facing the puck as it moves, rather than facing in the direction you're moving (in line with the toe of the lead skate.)

If, however, you're finding it hard to even make small lateral pushes with your toes pointing at the puck (which seems to be what you're saying when you describe 'picking up your feet and stepping left or right') my guess is that you aren't managing your inside edges optimally. In a shuffle, you want to do one of two things: either 1) shift your balance to the backside (pushing) leg, taking the pressure off the inside edge of the lead skate, or 2) release the inside edge of the lead skate -- just enough to let the blade slip laterally -- by shifting your balance onto the lead skate. #2 often confuses people, but it's actually slightly more effective. In a deep, wide, shot-ready stance, your inside edges are dug into the ice at a fairly steep angle; shift that lead skate back under your shoulder, and you A) distribute some weight to the outside edge, and B) significantly change the angle to the ice of the inside edge.

If you can find a moment, try getting out on the ice as early as possible (warmup/'stretch' in the hallway) and just playing around with your edges. Geometrically, they're much different than what you're used to, but if you're a good skater, you'll be able to figure them out pretty quickly.

[retroXvertigo 4]

Law pretty much covered everything. I came from playing D to goal. I skate on a 5/8 on D, and a 3/8 in net.

I'd suggest hitting a public skate if you can. Just to get used to the different set up, work on shuffles etc.

[Phantom 19]

Law did a good job as usual. As far as actual skating techniques go, you won't be sliding across the floor like Tom Cruise (as Law already stated). Goaltending these days has very specific set of techniques to get around the crease. C-cuts, T-pushes, shuffles, etc. For good demonstration of these, as well as recovery techniques, look at these old videos (4 total):

Corey's now a goalie coach and a very good one. These videos give a good idea of how to move properly and efficiently around the crease. I think you'll find that once you're familiar with these movements, you're going to probably want a sharper cut than 1". I skate on 7/16", and am working my way back down to 3/8" because I like the agressive cut. More bite comes in very handy. I suggest you starting out at 3/4" or even 5/8", and then adjust from there. Maybe you will need a shallow cut, but perhaps you'll need to go sharper once you have a better feel for technique.

[HBPuckstopper 0]

Once you get some ice time under your belt, if you still feel unsure about the sharper cut, find a good skate sharpener who can make the inside edge slightly taller than the outside edge.

For me this had made a world of difference in the edge i get when pushing. It serves 2 purposes: 1) Like i just said, you get a much better edge when pushing, however it takes virtually no time to adjust to shuffling. 2) With the inside edge higher, you are less likely to catch your outside edge and fall flat on your face (which i have plenty of experience with transitioning from roller to ice).

The key is to find someone who knows what theyre doing when sharpening. Personally, i only allow myslef to sharpen my skates, that way i know that im getting every time i step onto the ice. (Working at GoalieMonkey really helps too.) Every person ive recommended this to had raved about it.

[SAK 2]

We are just releasing a new goalie cut called the A-Trap. It's not on the web yet however it is the same basic principle as FBV only the inside edges have a larger bite angle than the outside, while maintaining equal edges. The pro goalies that we converted have had a lot of success. You can have the inside edge feel like 1/4" while the outside feels like 7/8", while maintaining equal edges. BTW A-Trap stands for A trapezoid.

[jimmy 194]

We are just releasing a new goalie cut called the A-Trap. It's not on the web yet however it is the same basic principle as FBV only the inside edges have a larger bite angle than the outside, while maintaining equal edges. The pro goalies that we converted have had a lot of success. You can have the inside edge feel like 1/4" while the outside feels like 7/8", while maintaining equal edges. BTW A-Trap stands for A trapezoid.

Will you hurry up! I've been waiting for this forever!! :-)

[SAK 2]

Give me a shout Jimmy. You should be using it. I will try to post a PDF of it so it will make it easier to understand, Its cool if your a goalie, but seeing I was defense and thought most goalies were nuts anyway.......take it for what its worth.

[forbs02 20]

Give me a shout Jimmy. You should be using it. I will try to post a PDF of it so it will make it easier to understand, Its cool if your a goalie, but seeing I was defense and thought most goalies were nuts anyway.......take it for what its worth.

I'd like to see that PDF. I'm really curious as to how that will work, it is an interesting concept.

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

Steve sent me the pdf for A-Trap - it is now hosted here -

http://www.modsquadhockey.com/forums/index.php?/files/file/150-blackstone-a-trap/

[jimmy 194]

Give me a shout Jimmy. You should be using it. I will try to post a PDF of it so it will make it easier to understand, Its cool if your a goalie, but seeing I was defense and thought most goalies were nuts anyway.......take it for what its worth.

Who is nuts, the guy who plays 4 times a week for free or the guy who pays to play??

I just ordered some from Liam so will have a bunch of goalies using it soon. Months ago when I found out you were developing it, I had lined up a whole lot who are anxious to try it. I suggest you create a chart that give equiv hollows for both edges.

Thanks

[Moose-head 0]

I would question the sharpening.

You have burrs "after" the sharpening.

Then he didn't do a very good job.

[retroXvertigo 4]

Steve sent me the pdf for A-Trap - it is now hosted here -

http://www.modsquadhockey.com/forums/index.php?/files/file/150-blackstone-a-trap/

I wish there was someone in the Baltimore area with the ability to do this.

[wrangler 157]

Steve sent me the pdf for A-Trap - it is now hosted here -

http://www.modsquadhockey.com/forums/index.php?/files/file/150-blackstone-a-trap/

This link doesn't work for me.

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

Yeah, and I said that in the FBV thread...

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

File is fixed