Is So-And-So A Hall Of Famer? The Water Cooler Thread

[Chadd 916]

If someone else posted it, I missed it:

Hossa

No individual awards, less than a point per game average, couple 40+ goal seasons, 100 points once. I'd say no at this point.

[wrangler 157]

Against that, 15 years, over 900 points, one Cup, two other Finals appearances, more years to play, outstanding player both ways, I don't think it's unreasonable to put him in the discussion. I wonder about individual awards. A guy could be consistently in the top 5, and never get one. Would that make him not Hall-worthy?

[pizzakid13 5]

thats how you lower the bar.

[wrangler 157]

We've got to put it somewhere, and that's what we're talking about. We can't have it like MLB, with the group of players that didn't think anyone was good enough for them to nominate, for years.

[pizzakid13 5]

agreed. hossa is damn good but an alltimer? where is he ranked in pts. so far?

as of now, i say no.

[goblue9280 33]

Maybe this is a bit of a homer and dark horse idea, but what about Datsyuk?

When all is said and done, I think he gets in. The three Selke's prove he's one of the great defensive forwards of all time, and while defensive-forwards may not be well represented in the hall, his offensive skill and production put him in a different class. It's pretty rare for a player to be able to dominate at both ends of the ice in all scenarios, PK/PP/ES. The other thing to consider is he is arguably the best stickhandler of the past decade and will go down as one of the greatest all time. The two Stanley Cups simply round out his resume.

[wrangler 157]

agreed. hossa is damn good but an alltimer? where is he ranked in pts. so far?

as of now, i say no.

92d for NHL points, 69th for goals.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/careerstats.htm?fetchKey=00002ALLSAHAll&viewName=careerLeadersAllSeasons&sort=points&pg=4

[chippa13 1844]

Sometimes the all time rankings can be a little misleading. A lot of today's players are enjoying longer and longer careers than the guys they are passing.

[Chadd 916]

When all is said and done, I think he gets in. The three Selke's prove he's one of the great defensive forwards of all time, and while defensive-forwards may not be well represented in the hall, his offensive skill and production put him in a different class. It's pretty rare for a player to be able to dominate at both ends of the ice in all scenarios, PK/PP/ES. The other thing to consider is he is arguably the best stickhandler of the past decade and will go down as one of the greatest all time. The two Stanley Cups simply round out his resume.

Three selke's, two cups and still nearly a point per game over his career. I think the only question with him is first ballot or not.

[pizzakid13 5]

wow, 15 years and only 92nd? that is surprising.

with those numbers, i would have to say no honestly.

aside from crosby, i would say datsuk is probably the next HOF of this generation. he has a lot of hardware.

http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/records/nhl-players-all-time-points-per-game-leaders.html

[dsjunior1388 81]

I don't think there is any way Thornton misses out after the likes of Neely and Bure got in. Only one full season with less than 50 points, only 3 with less than 70 points. He's a hair over a point per game for the career and has 1100 on the clock without really slowing down. 3 100 point seasons, a hart and an art ross to boot.

[Jason Harris 31]

But I think Neely was a special case, and one that doesn't seem to be unanimous among fans. His career numbers don't stack up, but his best years do, and the consensus is an injury (at age 26) from what was generally considered to be a dirty hit deprived him of the chance to climb up the all time ranks. He also might be the first of the power forwards.

[MyBoxersSayJoe 133]

Possible homer-bias, but Brodeur's got to be a shoe-in when he retires.

[Chadd 916]

But I think Neely was a special case, and one that doesn't seem to be unanimous among fans. His career numbers don't stack up, but his best years do, and the consensus is an injury (at age 26) from what was generally considered to be a dirty hit deprived him of the chance to climb up the all time ranks. He also might be the first of the power forwards.

Gordie Howe was many years ahead of him, but Neely still gets a lot of that credit. He was a special player when he was healthy, I think the same could objectively said about Lindros.

[Jason Harris 31]

You're right, but I don't recall anyone using the term "power forward" until Neely. And my memory is I first started hearing it in the NBA.

[chippa13 1844]

Neely was just the first guy that they applied the term to but I agree that there were others before him who fit the mold. As far as the Hall, Neely was a special case because he did dominate in his era, as short as it was. I agree that folks could also make the same argument for Lindros.

[Leafsrule16 5]

I think St. Louis would have had a much better chance if there were no lockouts. Think about it, coming off a career season and winning a cup and lockout, in the final stretches of his career where he can still put up big numbers and a half season.. Say he played another 40 games this season and another 82 last lockout I'd say that'd give him another 130 career points give or take some. So although that may not help put him over the top, I think that without those points he's probably not getting in.

Lecavlier is another definate no for me. He started off a promising prospect and had some success early and was one of the top players for a bit but now he's mostly an overpaid defensive minded second line center. There's no denying he's a good player but he's no HOF player. Hossa is another one that I cannot see getting in. He chased the cup signing two seasons back to back with cup favorites to win and hasn't really put up amazing numbers, sure he's a point a game player but without any major success is that really good enough? I don't think so.

[Jason Harris 31]

Brodeur's a no-brainer, but what about the remaining PPG players from pizzakids's list of the top 50?

Evgeni Malkin

Alexander Ovechkin

Jason Spezza

Ilya Kovalchuk

I have to say that I never thought of Spezza that way, while the other three are on pace, and just a question of longevity.

[chippa13 1844]

I think Malkin is definitely in. Ovechkin is a wait and see. Spezza not on his body of work so far. Kovalchuk is same deal.

[Jason Harris 31]

Now that I've looked at it more closely, you're probably right about Kovalchuk. He has such a reputation on the power play, that I figured he'd almost be a shoo-in if he picks up another 300-350 points, but I just saw he's minus 113!

[dsjunior1388 81]

Thornton has several 100+ and 90+ point seasons, the only reason he isn't considered "dominating his era" is because he did so fairly quietly, piling up assists instead of highlights, and playing on the west coast. Had he stayed in Boston this wouldn't be a question but he's been looked over a little bit in SJ.

A guy I'm curious about is Fedorov. At his best, he was a top five player in the league, winning a Hart, a Selke, 3 cups, but his post-Detroit career was largely forgettable. He's just short of 500 goals, 1,100 points, and has 176 playoff points.

[pizzakid13 5]

Kinda forgot about him. Great player on a great team.

[Jason Harris 31]

"AND OUR SURVEY SAYS!:"

Chris Chelios, Scott Niedermayer, Brendan Shanahan, two-time Cup winning Philly coach Fred Shero, and Canadian Olympian Geraldine Heaney.

[wrangler 157]

That's the only survey that counts.

[chippa13 1844]

Can't argue against any of those 3 players.