Graf 707

[Neo5370 132]

The improved version of this has been around for years.............. It's simply beyond words.

It's called the Graf G7.

You're right. I should have noted that graf no longer makes the 707, as it has been replaced by the G7. However, my point still stands. Find me a reasonable concentration of LHS's that carry the G7. Almost anybody that merely wants to try on a pair is out of luck.

[arcsinice 6]

Neo.............. 707, G7, "no diff" per se......, effectively nearly identical save for materials which really didn't change it for all intents and purposes, most certainly identical in design and net execution/performance which is, as remarked, "simply beyond words". So off the charts......................

Here's the real rub............ Find ANY "Authorized Graf Dealer" who carry ANY Graf skates, above all (now) the Canadian manufactured products (skates). You cannot. And if one could, the G7 is never to be found. As you know, you want that, you have to order same.

They (Graf) know me in Calgary and they hate my guts because I have been most vocal regarding a great deal of their open ineptitude. Phenomenal product, horrific, imperious, insular management. Best "popsicles" hands down, but they couldn't run a popsickle stand on a hot summer day in Los Angeles, etc.

[flip12 729]

I saw G7's in person for the first time at West Side Skate and Stick, NYC. Pretty interesting skate. But other Grafs offer good ankle flexion too, at least the 703's and 705's I've tried, in part due to their cut being 1-cm or so lower than even my Supple Fit Missions (year 2000 Flyweights I picked up are nominally the same height as my s400's) as well as those boots not being way too stiff up top. I know they're behind in modernizing their manufacturing, but I still love their skates. It's hard not to as well as 703's fit me though.

[Cavs019 710]

707/G7 do not fit everyone from a heel width/volume standpoint and I (like many others) dislike Graf boots. That said, I accomplish the same thing by either skipping my top eyelet, or skipping the top and tying the second eyelet extremely loose while using slightly longer laces to compensate.

[arcsinice 6]

Flip................ The G7's flexation - above all forward, to a lesser extent rearward is in a league of its own - and cannot be compared to any other boot, beginning with any other Graf product, it's just that advanced. And not for everyone. The exterior flaps, while maintaining full closure (and support) around the upper ankle, flex forward and biomechanically move WITH (as) the uppper cuff - ankle as an effective biomechanically "unified" system, this is what distinguishes the design and sets it apart from anything else, period. There is no break point whatsoever with the G7............., just constant flex from the neutral position up to a stopping or end point of forward flexation all the while again with upper ankle (flexing) support. It is the only boot that is effectively not "fighting" against the skater and critically reduces, due to its design, the inherent gap when the flexation goes forward, versus a good number of boots today being so stiff (too stiff) so as to effectively warrant no forward flexation whatsoever and most certainly (biomechanically) "fighting" the skater. Again, it most certainly is not for everyone beginning with its function, ending with its fit volume....... Case in point; there are a several Graf models that do not remotelyy accomodate my foot.

The superlative 703's, as an example, while of course not designed with the flaps benefit from their more flexible material which is clearly an asset as you v. well know, as do the 705's, just not as much. Not to disparage any brand, but Graf understand better than anyone the critically important need for flex, starting with material . This continues with the G7's slightly softer boot material aiding that boot's unique design. Graf are hardly behind in moderization as it were vis-a-vis material, design. My fear is the day will arrive when they crash the 700 series, starting with what is now the G7, as well, your 703's, the 705, the 709, all of which are so superb. Many ignorantly claim that today these are "old" design. Ya, right........ Well then, if not that, they most certainly suffer because they are "heavy". That's another good one............. Which brings me to my generic complaint that most boots today are too stiff and the material is too light, the results are painfully obvious, no pun intended. And Made in China, no less.................

One astute poster thankfully alluded to the term, "(because) that's what the pros use"............ All those impresssionable kids, "kids" (adults!) would be in for a surprise were they to examine what in fact their favorite pro does in fact use as they would many times come to find he spec'd a "lower performance" (softer) plastic, a slightly flexing outer sole, a softer flexing upper cuff, etc. But the boot is made to look identical to that of the top of the line ($$$$$$) "high performance model". Ah, marketing.

[flip12 729]

Good point on the G7/707. It's clear it functions quite differently with that hinged upper. I haven't skated in them so I can only go from what others say (there are many who rave about them).

I know when I was young I was indeed one of those kids using overstiff sticks and also wanted such and such a stick because it looked cool and so and so "did well with it" (Jagr and CoreBeam being my case in point--which, thankfully the LHS employee talked me out of getting, but I still left without understanding what kind of stick I should have been using). If only some company could make it cool to calibrate these fit/stiffness parameters, kids could have more fun out there. Base seems to be doing a pretty good job at that in terms of approach. There's still just that hurdle of getting over the barrier into getting noticed. I agree Graf has a lot going for it, getting a lot of points right for people who like their skates, but one thing they don't have going for them is making their skates approachable.

I mean they are behind in modernizing in view of how copy-cat their G-series materials have been.

[zebra_steve 11]

I skated in custom 707's for a couple years,,,, my only complaint was that they fell apart..... Literally the seams started popping... and the boot really was getting soft(er). forward flex was great but the lateral support had gone soft. No biggie as I got almost 3 seasons of hard use (ref 150+ games a season, plus play and coach a bit... I was on the ice 7 days a week for almost 10 months of the year over that time period). Should've gone with another pair of Grafs, but I just had to try the Vapor XXXX's and ended up getting "Bauer bumps"...... Then I got a deal I couldn't pass up on custom CCM CL's. Graf is still on the radar and under consideration for the next pair..... I consider most Grafs to be a "skaters boot"... giving you the flex you need to control your edges properly - providing that someone taught you how to do that along the way.

Oh, on the 55 flex thing... solution to a problem that already has a work around..... lace them over the top at the 5th eyelet, tripple cross the laces (twist like you were gonna tie a bow but do it 3x) and then lace through the 4th eyelet and go loose the rest of the way up. Lace the eyelets and lean forward to set the forward flex and tie the bow while flexed forward.... or find a replacement CCM Lace Lock and put it in the 4th eyelet and then do the same forward flex and tie.

[mcne0101 17]

Flip................ The G7's flexation - above all forward, to a lesser extent rearward is in a league of its own - and cannot be compared to any other boot, beginning with any other Graf product, it's just that advanced. And not for everyone. The exterior flaps, while maintaining full closure (and support) around the upper ankle, flex forward and biomechanically move WITH (as) the uppper cuff - ankle as an effective biomechanically "unified" system, this is what distinguishes the design and sets it apart from anything else, period. There is no break point whatsoever with the G7............., just constant flex from the neutral position up to a stopping or end point of forward flexation all the while again with upper ankle (flexing) support. It is the only boot that is effectively not "fighting" against the skater and critically reduces, due to its design, the inherent gap when the flexation goes forward, versus a good number of boots today being so stiff (too stiff) so as to effectively warrant no forward flexation whatsoever and most certainly (biomechanically) "fighting" the skater. Again, it most certainly is not for everyone beginning with its function, ending with its fit volume....... Case in point; there are a several Graf models that do not remotelyy accomodate my foot.

The superlative 703's, as an example, while of course not designed with the flaps benefit from their more flexible material which is clearly an asset as you v. well know, as do the 705's, just not as much. Not to disparage any brand, but Graf understand better than anyone the critically important need for flex, starting with material . This continues with the G7's slightly softer boot material aiding that boot's unique design. Graf are hardly behind in moderization as it were vis-a-vis material, design. My fear is the day will arrive when they crash the 700 series, starting with what is now the G7, as well, your 703's, the 705, the 709, all of which are so superb. Many ignorantly claim that today these are "old" design. Ya, right........ Well then, if not that, they most certainly suffer because they are "heavy". That's another good one............. Which brings me to my generic complaint that most boots today are too stiff and the material is too light, the results are painfully obvious, no pun intended. And Made in China, no less.................

One astute poster thankfully alluded to the term, "(because) that's what the pros use"............ All those impresssionable kids, "kids" (adults!) would be in for a surprise were they to examine what in fact their favorite pro does in fact use as they would many times come to find he spec'd a "lower performance" (softer) plastic, a slightly flexing outer sole, a softer flexing upper cuff, etc. But the boot is made to look identical to that of the top of the line ($$$$$$) "high performance model". Ah, marketing.

Not to high-jack the thread but this is the first I've heard of these G7 skates. I use Nike/Bauer One95's now and I don't tie the top two eyelets because I like the range of motion with my ankles and my foot is supported enough by the boot.

By the sounds of it I should look into these G7's when its time for me to get a new pair of skates. I had one pair of Grafs which I loved but the eyelets fell out and they fell apart in about 12 months. On the flip side I've had my One95's since the month they were released and they're just now starting to fall apart.

Anyone in MN know of a retailer that carries G7's?

[PuckHead88 0]

I had a pair of 707's for about 10 years or so and I loved them. Once you get used to the pitch and ability to move your ankles you are set. They finally gave out last year and could not find a pair of 707's or G7's in my size so I settled for G70's. My G70's fell apart 92 days after purchase the boot, sole, and holder separated and you could stick you finger in down to your last knuckle. Graf told me I was "out of luck" as I was 2 days out of warranty and the online store I got them from wouldn't help either. I was the biggest supporter of Graf until then but will never buy another pair again. Their management has gone to hell in a hand basket and it was never like that in the past. If you do buy them make sure you give them a very very detailed check about 80 days into your tenure with them and get them replaced if needed.

[flip12 729]

That's a shame.

I'm trying to pick up an older pair of Grafs because 1) the pair I had in high school were too big and the wrong fit for my feet (still, they were by far the best performing and comfiest skates I've ever owned); 2) I don't buy their new materials; 3) I'm hoping to avoid the sloppy QC that appears to mar their recent years' production.

[PuckHead88 0]

I agree the 707's were by far the most comfortable skate I have had to date (although I am hoping to buy the Mako's today) its a shame that Graf's have been hard to come by. Yeah I was not impressed with the material on the outside of the skate when I got the G70's it cut really easily. I took a puck in about the mid-foot area and it cut the outside pretty good. I would say buy them in a store if possible to pick out the best available pair QC wise you can. They seem to be really hit and miss from skate to skate.