Buying new skates, need suggestions & help avoiding common pitfalls

[smu 29]

I Need new skates as there has been far too much work done on my outersoles making them unstable. Holder can't be mounted securely.

- Before this hockey season started my main objective was to buy new, top of the line, skates & have the holders shifted medially for my over-pronation. It is really too bad for me and others with pronation problems that Easton bought out the MLX brand & changed the holders so they could not be moved, side to side, manually. Now I find out that it seems all the skates, that I have looked at, have no room in the heel area to move the holder in any direction, yet there is still talk in the forums of this being able to be done!

- What I need is some suggestions on purchasing new skates so that I can be confident that the holders & blades will be fastened on correctly - straight, level & aligned. Also, I am also looking for the best stock blades. Many in the forums post that the holders & bent blades are truly real problems, blades bent by the holders, still in the box or just bent 'period'. I have had all these issues happen to me over the last few pairs of skates that I am now almost afraid to purchase a new pair, altogether.

- I am small, so I fit into a size 5. My last skate was a Bauer Vapor X60, top of the line, about 3-4 years old. At a junior price I paid $400 which was a huge break! Now the top of the line junior is $6-650! I can't afford the top of the line anymore & need keep around $400.

- I am looking for a skate that gives me a forward feeling stance and my local skate sharpener suggested CCM or Reebok.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks - Alan

[flyguy1 1]

I wouldn't worry too much about the forward stance requirement as that can always be adjusted with lifts or profiling. You're going to have to get the boot that best fits your foot then you can make the adjustments.

I understand it is easier said than done but I'm in the same boat wanting/needing to get skates soon and just avoiding going to the lhs and trying everything on. Good luck

[Chadd 916]

Every manufacturer will have some skates that are not aligned properly or have the steel not inserted correctly, you can not ensure that you will avoid that without seeing the actual skates before you buy them. As for shifting the blades, most people now seem to prefer orthotics or lifts to address issues with pronation or supination. As you noticed, boots have reduced excess material on the sole in order to reduce weight as much as possible.

[jimmy 194]

Every manufacturer will have some skates that are not aligned properly or have the steel not inserted correctly, you can not ensure that you will avoid that without seeing the actual skates before you buy them. As for shifting the blades, most people now seem to prefer orthotics or lifts to address issues with pronation or supination. As you noticed, boots have reduced excess material on the sole in order to reduce weight as much as possible.

This.

[smu 29]

"I wouldn't worry too much about the forward stance requirement as that can always be adjusted with lifts or profiling. You're going to have to get the boot that best fits your foot then you can make the adjustments."

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Thanks flyguy1,

I came to that conclusion last evening and have just purchased the Bauer vapor x90. They felt like my old skates (good) and I checked the blades for straightness and they seemed fine so I removed them from the holders and both blades came out easily and just just dropped into the holder indicating there was no stress involved. I am getting them profiled now. - Alan

Every manufacturer will have some skates that are not aligned properly or have the steel not inserted correctly, you can not ensure that you will avoid that without seeing the actual skates before you buy them. As for shifting the blades, most people now seem to prefer orthotics or lifts to address issues with pronation or supination. As you noticed, boots have reduced excess material on the sole in order to reduce weight as much as possible.

Chad thanks for your help all the time, it seems you reply to everything. I hope everyone appreciates that.

So it is perhaps just a factor of weight that the out-soles barely fit the holders! There does appear to me more room in the toe area though.

You are right in suggesting to stick with the orthotics and again, I cannot believe that the Superfeet are as good as my $200 plus orthotics.

Again thanks - Alan

[Chadd 916]

Chad thanks for your help all the time, it seems you reply to everything. I hope everyone appreciates that.

So it is perhaps just a factor of weight that the out-soles barely fit the holders! There does appear to me more room in the toe area though.

You are right in suggesting to stick with the orthotics and again, I cannot believe that the Superfeet are as good as my $200 plus orthotics.

Again thanks - Alan

I just try to help wherever I can add something productive. I tend to agree with your thoughts on Superfeet. I liked the ones that came in my Kor Shift2 but there was little, if any, difference between them and stock footbeds when I used them in my Mission skates. I would not expect them to serve as a functional replacement for anyone actually needing an orthotic.

[smu 29]

Chadd,

Has there been any word about moveable blades like the MLX skate on the horizon? I really see a need, in that there must be a fair number of skaters that would be a lot better if a blade alignment were done.

There are a few patents out there trying to build a better skate, but it seems no manufacture wants to bother if it costs them money.

A year ago, my nephew, who was with Karhu a number of years ago, sent me a copy made by one of his friends of a patent for the Mission skate. It was a simple device as easy as the new Bauer blade release, but instead it was a blade pitch control operated much in the same way.

Gawd, I wish Easton did not buy the rights to MLX! - A little rant but... - Alan

[Chadd 916]

Chadd,

Has there been any word about moveable blades like the MLX skate on the horizon? I really see a need, in that there must be a fair number of skaters that would be a lot better if a blade alignment were done.

None that I am aware of from a major manufacturer. I would think that the potential for someone to misuse it and injure themselves would be a significant factor against it.

[Vet88 674]

I have the same foot issues as you. Not wanting to drop top dollar on an ultra stiff top end skate, I went the Graf route. Sole purpose of buying them is that it is easy to shift the holder with a bit of drill / dremel work that you can do yourself at home. They also pitch you forward which is something else you are after.

My G3 ultras did come with some issues - the original steels are crap (bent and rusted out immediately, replaced them with Step steels) and the overall finish is poor (bits of steel poking up in the footbed, had to put gel pads under the footbeds plus inner padding in the heel not correctly placed, now tape my heel up with neoprene pads and use eziboots) but if you can get into a shop and carefully select the boot to your foot shape and check it over well before buying then Graf offers you a good choice.

[jimmy 194]

Gawd, I wish Easton did not buy the rights to MLX! - A little rant but... - Alan

99% of skaters do not need any holder adjustments, it doesn't make sense to offer this as a stock option. Al it did was ad weight. More skaters have a huge ankle bone that's a problem, are you saying then that all the skates should have a huge ankle bone cut out?

[smu 29]

99% of skaters do not need any holder adjustments, it doesn't make sense to offer this as a stock option. Al it did was ad weight. More skaters have a huge ankle bone that's a problem, are you saying then that all the skates should have a huge ankle bone cut out?

Jimmy,

I have no statistics for this, but I would be inclined to think that most human bodies are not 99% perfect. Some are better off (let's say) with their feet than others and and learn to cope with any deficiency to some extent. Even as their problems get worse many don't know that they have a problem and try or do work through it. There would be a lot more good hockey players and happy hockey players out there, having more fun if they could tweak their skates.

We are all on a sliding scale and most likely the "Bell Curve" would fit quite nicely here or at least it is workable to some degree. Again, many players would not notice an alignment problem and attempt to work through it. And, it is not just alignment that may be a problem, but it is hard to identify a good skate (not perfect) coming off the assembly line. Holders crooked, blades bent, bad fit, on and on. Many have difficulty identifying an acceptable skate even with the help of a salesman.

If I used the Bell Curve approach, some would fit perfectly right off line assembly line, that is, if they came off the line perfect, but there would be a good number as you go towards each end of the curve that would have more and more difficulty with the 'perfect skate'. Where do you draw the line? How many perfect hockey players do we have out there? If some help with pronation could be achieved more players could reach their potential instead of struggling with skate issues.

I have spoken to a pro trainer and he agrees, he sees many players, some pros with skates that need adjustments. Obviously the MLX manufacturer felt it was important. Try put yourself in another's skate for a moment. Many, many skaters know nothing about skate alignment nor if they pronate or supinate among other problems.

All I need is just a little wider outsole and I could move the blade, but oh no, the manufacturer takes that away too.

Why not do some research on the figure skater scene and see how important that an alignment is. This is almost automatically done, to get the best performance, with most GOOD skaters and is imperative for proper performance. In many cases their boots and blades come separately so that the alignment can be done at that point.

See if 99% of the figure skaters do not need adjustments. Best regards - Alan

[Chadd 916]

Many, many skaters know nothing about skate alignment nor if they pronate or supinate among other problems.

While accurate, comments like that actually make the case against you.

[SCOMPL 14]

I have no statistics for this, but I would be inclined to think that most human bodies are not 99% perfect. Some are better off (let's say) with their feet than others and and learn to cope with any deficiency to some extent. Even as their problems get worse many don't know that they have a problem and try or do work through it. There would be a lot more good hockey players and happy hockey players out there, having more fun if they could tweak their skates.

No human is "perfect." Humans, at least in the United States, are a minority-majority meaning there is not a single faction, race, or religion of human that represents 50%+ of the population. Manufacturers are forced to "average" and make their product suitable to the largest percentage of their target market. What this means is that the "majority" (read: 50%+) don't fit their standard sizes. Rarely does one put on a retail piece of equipment and experience a perfect fit. Since companies simply cannot make millions of variants in their products to meet everyone's individual needs. We are forced to either make due, customize the product to meet our needs, or pay exorbitant amounts of money to have the company make a custom product. Usually the cheapest option is for us to customize a retail product ourselves, with baking, custom inserts, blade profiling, lifts, etc.

My suggestion to you is to try on every manufacturer's price-point product that you are willing to spend, and choose the one that fits you best out-of-the-box. For skates, don't limit your options to 1 or 2 brands. Try on everything. Bauer, Reebok, CCM, Easton, Graf, etc. Choose the one that fits best, and then continually strive to increase your comfort with custom footbeds, orthodics, lifts, runners, profiling, etc until you are satisfied.

[smu 29]

Thanks guys, comments noted.

I have my skates now and physically checked for no glaring errors that would need anything changed other than my center of gravity/skate alignment issue. That being said, I am going with my orthotics or Superfeet to correct that issue.

There are always room for improvement in every product, take for instance the outsole of the skates now and how and what they are made from, they resists everyday stress and warping. That was another problem the manufacturer's had with that white plastic material that was prone to warping and did throw my holders out of wack a couple of times and I am sure it was a problem to others.

Many, many posts that I have seen on this forum and others, along with skate sharpeners that I have talked to or corresponded with tell the ongoing story that the automated process of how the skates leave the assembly line is not perfect. I have first hand knowledge of this with my skates, but now after a number of years of research I know what to look for. Another point is that if skates were made perfect there still will be a sliding scale from perfect fit for some, the satisfaction percentage would continue to go down, to what degree I don't know ,I will let the Bell Curve for you to ponder. Many times the skaters does not realize that they are not playing to their potential because of skate issues and just struggle through it.

Anyways, as always it's been a pleasure to discuss things on this forum and thanks for the comments, I hope I have a good time at the rink this week.

Regards - Alan