NHL's response to the NHLPA offer

[MDE3 0]

Even being an old school fan of the game dating back to the days of the original 6 teams, I could not agree with you more. The sport needs the head of the pyramid in place (the NHL ,otherwise known as "the carrot") to help grow the grass root fans..which are the youth players and their families. In addition the league needs to get involved more directly in promoting all versions of the sport (inlcuding inline) at the grass root levels..for that very reason...they need to 'grow their own" fans.

[GekigangarIII 0]

If they lived in one of these "expansion" cities the would see the impact of having a NHL team there. There so many people that play hockey here (columbus) now that would have never played before, just because of the Blue Jackets. There are more rinks now.

Columbus probably isn't a good example of what the critics are talking about. Columbus has more rinks than alot of towns that have been in the league for a while and had a hockey base before the Jackets got here. I think the Wild and the Jackets are more of an exception to the expansion rule, they're not exactly "forcing" the sport into the region, unlike some of the more southern and western teams.

[Smith 0]

" What are you willing to endure to rid the NHL (or whatever it will someday call itself) of the Carolina Hurricanes, Alexei Yashin, the Columbus Blue Jackets and maybe even Keith Tkachuk?"

From the "Slam" post. Some people know that, but there are still alot of people that want columbus's franchise moved somewhere else. And you have seen the "explosion" of hockey here now. If it was not for the Blue Jackets there would be no Worthington ice rink, Corecomm (of course) Chiller north. And I guess Caha bought the old inline in westerville and or going to finish the ice sheet. I was just using are fine city as a example because a lot of outsiders have no idea about the impact of the NHL here.

[GekigangarIII 0]

You have to consider the source on that one... Uller is a fricken leafs shill. Not to mention the entire article is dripped with sarcasm.

[Smith 0]

You have to consider the source on that one... Uller is a fricken leafs shill. Not to mention the entire article is dripped with sarcasm.

True.

[Chadd 916]

The problem with a unilateral "cap" is that the operating costs are not unilateral. I find it funny that the League should be so adamant about a salary cap, because that will definitely help the small market teams more than the established teams. I am surprised that the large market owners are not fighting the salary cap issues themselves. In short order, if a team in Nashville spends the same money as a team in NYC, then the players will probably be more drawn to the small market where the $ are going to allow them a much higher style of living, than in the larger estabished cities. Hence the large market teams will soon find themselves penalized, less able to compete for top salaries....

I would agree that teams in states like Texas and Florida would have an easier time signing players due to the lack of an income tax but I don't think most players would flock to smaller markets.

In terms of the league, teams in larger markets have an advantage when it comes to generating revenue. NY, Toronto, Detroit, etc... all have the ability to generate more money from merchandise, tv contracts and other avenues than teams like Nashville or Edmonton. Even with a salary cap, those teams would have the ability to spend lavishly on little perks that other teams may not be able to afford.

[MDE3 0]

Add Edmonton. Nashville, Calgary, Columbus, etc. vs. NYC, Boston, Toronto etc. ..and how long before the issue of "perks" gets audited as part of the total compensation package? If all teams have an equal payroll, then there is no way a 5 million dollar salary in Boston of NYC or even LA, competes in net value with Columbus, Nashville, Tampa Bay, Edmonton, Calgary on a cost of living scale.

But you see the trend...aren't the percentages for royalties from mechandise also fixed?. While the larger markets obviously have a bigger pie, there is also more competition by other major sports for the sales of goods, so it becomes somewhat balanced. Look at the crowd in Calgary at the last play-offs...the entire stands were garbed in Calgary Jerseys. Plus everyone on the street. More focussed buyer markets in smaller towns.."big fish" syndrome.

In fact in terms of pure numbers, I would wager there are more fans in Alberta for their two teams, than in NYC and the surrounding area for all three teams. The other major issue for players is the entertainment tax variations from one state/province to another, and the broad variance in income tax levels.

I am afraid that the only way a salary cap could work would be "pro rata"..where a cost of living scale was established and the salary cap was scaled accordingly.

[Chadd 916]

Add Edmonton. Nashville, Calgary, Columbus, etc. vs. NYC, Boston, Toronto etc. ..and how long before the issue of "perks" gets audited as part of the total compensation package? If all teams have an equal payroll, then there is no way a 5 million dollar salary in Boston of NYC or even LA, competes in net value with Columbus, Nashville, Tampa Bay, Edmonton, Calgary on a cost of living scale.

That would probably happen in the next CBA once they see it is a problem. There is also much less opportunity for major endorsements in a small market and people in the $5M salary range would be looking at endorsement opportunities.

But you see the trend...aren't the percentages for royalties from mechandise also fixed?. While the larger markets obviously have a bigger pie, there is also more competition by other major sports for the sales of goods, so it becomes somewhat balanced. Look at the crowd in Calgary at the last play-offs...the entire stands were garbed in Calgary Jerseys. Plus everyone on the street. More focussed buyer markets in smaller towns.."big fish" syndrome.

I'd rather have 10% of 10M people than 50% of 900,000 people buying my merchandise. If you do well you have the opportunity to draw in more people.

[Karly14 21]

I dont get how nhl players can seriously not understand that their league needs to have cost certainty. Hockey isnt even popular in the states. The NBA and NFL both have salary caps that would work similarly to the one the NHL is proposing (per individual). The main thing that frustrates me is this: Every player in NHL owes almost everything they have to hockey. Hockey has given them really good lives, it has made them rich, and respected. Without hockey where would a guy like Bill Guerin be?( I use him as an example, because he doesnt strike me as very smart, and he apparantly has a horrible attitude) But hes quick to take cheap shots at Gary Bettman, when in reality all Bettman is doing is trying to keep the game afloat. I guess my point is that hockey has given so much to these guys, why dont they give a little back to to hockey.

[Chadd 916]

I dont get how nhl players can seriously not understand that their league needs to have cost certainty. ... The NBA and NFL both have salary caps that would work similarly to the one the NHL is proposing (per individual).

The NBA cap is basically a luxury tax as nearly every team is $10M over the "cap" the NBA also has a number of exceptions to the cap. The NFL system also the benefit of non-guaranteed contracts.

[JGraz15 53]

NHL officially rejects the players proposal and the NHLPA rejects the NHL's counterproposal....

No talks planned

[Sniper#39 0]

Anyone surprised??

[Eazy_b97 1]

The NBA cap is basically a luxury tax as nearly every team is $10M over the "cap" the NBA also has a number of exceptions to the cap. The NFL system also the benefit of non-guaranteed contracts.

I also heard that the NFL players will not be on their system once the contract is up. I don't pay much attention to NFL, so this is through NHL talk shows, but they say its insane to compare to NFL because the NFL players won't ever agree to a system like they have again.

[MDE3 0]

"I'd rather have 10% of 10M people than 50% of 900,000 people buying my merchandise. If you do well you have the opportunity to draw in more people."

However I did refer to the entire population of Alberta due to the fact that fans of their teams are going to include pretty much the whole province...which is not 900,000 as you indicated, but more like 3,000,000.

Plus you can probably count on at least 90% of males and 50% of females of "age" being fans of the sport and the home teams because it is Canada...So a fan base more like 1,500,000 not 500,000....will be buying merchandise...just in Alberta. If this isn't at least equal to the numerical support for the Rangers, Devils and Islanders, I would be pretty shocked.

However given the current positions of the NHL and NHLPA, us counting the number of "angels on the head of a pin" is somewhat moot.

I also heard that some of the owners were a little concerned about the longevity of this conflict, although they have pretty much held their united front together. An informed source from the financial world, told me that several of the owners were really only expecting 8 - 10 weeks of stoppage, and they were starting to get antsy....

[dddatsyuk--48 0]

so how long do yall think it will take negotiate and fix everything? years? months?

[Eazy_b97 1]

Out of curiousity what happens if you were to go over a hard cap?

[MDE3 0]

The owners do not depend exclusively on the game of hockey to support themselves and their buildings. Even though it is still an important loss in revenue for them, from a business point of view, they, for the most part can survive this without too much personal grief in terms of change of lifestyle....even if they must abandon the franchise completely. However the players depend exclusively on the presence of this game and league to keep them in the style to which they have become accustomed....do the math.....

On the other hand....let's see.....we the players can wait this out until the league get's a ruling from some sort of arbitration board. At this time if we wait long enough, some teams may have decided that it's no longer worth the effort to regrow the interest in our game in their demographics, and pulled the pin, thus significantly shrinking our job market..... Then as a result of these proven losses, further aided by the demise of several organizations "due to the demonstrably unreasonable demands of the NHLPA", we the players will be force fed a solution(similar to an enema), and a compromise through abritration, which will be significantly less than the owners are actually offering at this time.....and there will be a whole new set of faces on the ice.....do the math!

You see at this point the game of Professional Hockey is now a fading memory for the once avid fans. Under the new arbitration approved guidelines, and due to the reduced fan interest in the game in the USA, the only logical economic solution is to force feed a significantly smaller salary structure to the remaining players...maybe half of the currently proposed 31M. cap.

In an effort to rekindle the interest in the sport, a Phoenix (read brilliant marketing plan approved by the arbitration board) rises from the ashes.....the "NHL Superleague", with a salary structure now on par with European professional hockey. :D ......You may think I am paranoid, but sometimes there really are people out to get you.......

Cast of characters:

"Evil Genius" played by Gary Bettman

Official Proctologist for the NHL (NOT the NHLPA): Bob Goodenow

[Jim Bob 0]

Out of curiousity what happens if you were to go over a hard cap?

The contract that put a team over would likely be voided by the league office when it was submitted for approval.

[Jim Bob 0]

http://jimbobrambles.blogspot.com/2004/12/...erproposal.html

Here is my breakdown of the NHL's offer.

Basically, the NHL is trying to win the hearts and minds of the players that make less than $800,000. They attempted that by not asking the 349 players in that salary range to take a pay cut and that they said that they want to maintain the median salary at that same level.

Basically, the NHL is trying to sell that their offer will hurt the higher paid players a lot more than the top end guys. And they hope that will create a break in ranks amongst the NHLPA and that will lead to the NHLPA being willing to accept the "payroll range system" that they offered up.

[SB39 2]

Anybody think it would be possible to accept a temporary CBA to save this season, ie including the 24% cutback and a couple other perks, then renegotiate teh real on over the summer? Sounds like a much better situation by retaining the fanbase and giving both sides teh remainder of the season, which would actually be played, to cool off and formulate ideas that might actually work instead of what seems to be thinkly veiled posturing on both sides...

[Jim Bob 0]

Nope.

One side or the other won't have any real drive to negotiate if they are playing games and both sides are getting paid.

The only way for games to be played and negotiations to advance would be to take all the money that the NHL makes off of games to go into an escroll account so that neither side is making money off of games being played.

But I doubt the NHLPA would do that because the owners own side businesses that make money off of the games and they would feel that the owners wouldn't give up anything because they would be making money once again.

[SB39 2]

Just wishful thinking cuz I've read about other disputes being settled in a sequential manner like that to relieve tensions and such... DAMMIT

[Jim Bob 0]

Most of the time that occurs with companies where neither side can afford to stop the work from happening either for a survival issue or it's an industry that provides a service that has to be up and running ala the police.

In an entertainment industry like the NHL, that hardly ever works out in the long run.

That's one of the reasons that MLB is in the mess that it is.

[SB39 2]

Come to think of it, that´s the type fo thing I was studying; airline negotiations, nursing strikes, and other business situations. But hey, it could happen