Extending arms during check

[AfftonDad 88]

I know that USA hockey encourages coaches to teach the kids not to extend their arms during a body check however, I was wondering is that just "a good idea" to avoid taking penalties or is it specifically illegal? At the defensman camp my son attends, I have heard them teaching the kids to initiate contact with the hands. Thanks.

Edit: I am of course not talking about a crosscheck. I guess I'm talking about the case where the defender is skating backwards with one hand on the stick and rubs out the puck carrier into the boards or neutralizes him in open ice.

[chk hrd 164]

One thing that Eddie Olcyk (sp) always says that I agree with is keep your stick down when you hit. That keeps your hands down so there is no head shots, high sticking or pushing. I have never heard of leading with your hands. That is just asking for a penalty. To me that would set you up for a high stick, cross check, elbowing, holding, etc. You check with the shoulder/body, not with the hands. Kids have a bad tendancy to throw thier arms up and out after a hit which to me is bad form and leads to penalties. I always taught to keep the hands down, arms in, knees bent and lead with a shoulder.

[shooter27 116]

When I was younger I remember them teaching us to use the free hand as sort of a guide. Not for initiating contact, but for gauging distance and gap control. Sort of put it in their chest as you close on them to be able to control their direction and then use the shoulder to rub them out. It supposedly allowed you to control the opponent a little better, but I never really gained comfort with the technique..

[AfftonDad 88]

When I was younger I remember them teaching us to use the free hand as sort of a guide. Not for initiating contact, but for gauging distance and gap control. Sort of put it in their chest as you close on them to be able to control their direction and then use the shoulder to rub them out. It supposedly allowed you to control the opponent a little better, but I never really gained comfort with the technique..

Yes, that would be what exactly what I'm talking about. It allows you to make contact while they are closing on you (and while you are still skating backwards). For you to make initial contact with your shoulder you would have to apply the brakes pretty hard and essentially change directions, which would usually be an over commitment. On the other hand if you wait until he gets to your shoulders while you are skating backwards, he's going to run you over, because he has momentum on you. In football they used to teach us that once you let the guy get to your body (and in football you're both heading towards each other) you've lost the battle.

Incidentally, I think that is why a hip check also works because you can do it while still moving backwards instead of having to change directions. If getting that hand up and out is illegal though, I don't want to teach it.

[AfftonDad 88]

I just found a Hockey Canada video example of what I'm talking about and in so doing I think I've answered my own question

http://youtu.be/tq8qEq7_9rM

At 0:35 (and again at 5:40) they show what I'm talking about and they say it's legal, so I guess it is.

[wrangler 157]

I'd be more concerned with keeping the stick where I can make a play on the puck, and letting the hands go with the stick. I see way too many plays where the puck is totally ignored in favor of a hit.

[Chadd 916]

I just found a Hockey Canada video example of what I'm talking about and in so doing I think I've answered my own question

http://youtu.be/tq8qEq7_9rM

At 0:35 (and again at 5:40) they show what I'm talking about and they say it's legal, so I guess it is.

In those clips, they focus on timing more than anything else. It's also several years old, there may now be a stronger interpretation in regards to use of the free hand. The biggest thing to keep in mind when reaching out to the other player is not to allow your hand to appear as though you are using it to hold the opposing player. Getting it outside the center of mass or allowing them to get even with you can easily result in an interference or holding call.

I'd be more concerned with keeping the stick where I can make a play on the puck, and letting the hands go with the stick. I see way too many plays where the puck is totally ignored in favor of a hit.

Coaches want safe, defensive plays. It's a lot easier to teach kids to play the body than the puck and reaching out allows you to make up for being in less than ideal position.

Yes, that would be what exactly what I'm talking about. It allows you to make contact while they are closing on you (and while you are still skating backwards). For you to make initial contact with your shoulder you would have to apply the brakes pretty hard and essentially change directions, which would usually be an over commitment. On the other hand if you wait until he gets to your shoulders while you are skating backwards, he's going to run you over, because he has momentum on you. In football they used to teach us that once you let the guy get to your body (and in football you're both heading towards each other) you've lost the battle.

Incidentally, I think that is why a hip check also works because you can do it while still moving backwards instead of having to change directions. If getting that hand up and out is illegal though, I don't want to teach it.

Ideally, you use your body to deny the center of the ice to the puck carrier. If you are near the boards, or are in an otherwise "safe" location, you finish the check. trying to hit the puck carrier, regardless of your position on the ice, simply because he has the puck is bad hockey and bad coaching.

[AfftonDad 88]

Agreed. The only reason to body check should be to separate the puck carrier from the puck.

[Capt.Hook 23]

With one hand on the stick blocking the passing lane that hand can be used to guide the body into the rubout or into the stand up of the forward. It is tricky though because like what was said above - if you start reaching and grabbing - it definitely looks like a hold.

On another note - SWEET London Calling Avatar. "The ice age is coming, the Sun's zoomin in!" Nicely done AfftonDad.

[wrangler 157]

Coaches want safe, defensive plays. It's a lot easier to teach kids to play the body than the puck and reaching out allows you to make up for being in less than ideal position.

I don't see those as always mutually exclusive. Stick on the ice, make a play for the puck while you play the body of the opponent. Set your own priority based on situation, but have the alternatives available. At the very least if the stick's on the ice, there may be a chance at the puck if it squirts free.

I'm not particularly concerned with what's easiest for kids to learn. I'm concerned with the effects of several years of that training on how they play when they're older.

[chippa13 1844]

If you're close enough for body contact then you are also close enough for two hands on the stick to get your blade to the puck while initiating contact with the shoulder. As for the rule of thumb, if you don't get the man then get the puck and if you don't get the puck then get the man. If you go for the big hit and get your arms up then there is a good chance that you don't get either.

[wrangler 157]

I couldn't care less about a highlight reel hit. I'm interested in whatever helps my team get the puck moving toward the opponents' goal. Too many times I see NHL hits on the back boards 3-6 feet away from the puck. Often a player, as he makes a hit like this, will be able to watch an opponent pick up the puck unmolested. Sometimes this leads directly to a goal. But if you'd prefer to attempt to make the other team nervous about getting hit, and give up these plays, you have to remember they can bite you.

I love to see a guy totally disregard the puck, go for a big hit, and have his intended victim easily slip the hit, causing the guy to lose his balance and fall, or slam into the boards, while the opponent tips the puck to a teammate for a rush or a scoring chance.

[AfftonDad 88]

Two hands on your stick (and I'm assuming stick on the ice) while skating backwards? Sounds pretty bent forward (and difficult) for skating backwards.

I think the steering with the hand in the chest thing often lets you avoid the big hit. You can frequently just let the space close while closing the distance to the boards without even delivering a big hit (and effectively separating him from the puck). I rarely will get called for that (in non-check hockey) whereas delivering a shoulder would definitely get a call. You definitely have to make sure it is only for a short time because it will become interference pretty quickly.

[chippa13 1844]

Poke check with one hand but if you are close enough to contact the opponent with your free hand then you are close enough to make a play on the puck. Once it becomes a one on one battle for the puck you need two hands on the stick.

[Chadd 916]

I'm not particularly concerned with what's easiest for kids to learn. I'm concerned with the effects of several years of that training on how they play when they're older.

That's the difference between you and AAA coaches.

[scorer75 9]

A legal check is one delivered with the torso, hip, or shoulder. The problem with extending the arms, is they tend to go up, and almost always end up in the other players face. That's a penalty.

As for two hands on the stick, when you extend the arms, you've just committed a cross check. I always talk to the D when they are clearing the front of the net. I'll explain that if they do the same thing they are doing, but take one hand off the stick, they'll get the same results, without taking a chance of committing a cross check. You cannot commit a cross check if one hand is on your stick, or if the blade of your stick is on the ice. I cannot count the number of times a D is clearing the front with two hands on his stick, the stick rides up the opponents back, striking the F in the helmet. Shitty penalty to call, but depending on the severity of the contact, my hands are tied.

I'm not a coach, but my experience reffing tells me that playing the body is the better tool. If you miss, you can still use your stick to play the puck. If you go for the puck and miss, chances are you are in poor position to play the body as a second option and are more likely to grab, hold, or hook the guy as he goes by you. You also put yourself in a situation for an interference penalty. If the guy dumps the puck as you attempt to play it, and you then change your lane to try to play the body, that's interference. If you are playing the body, it will be tough for him to get through you to get to the puck he just dumped in.

Just my .02

[chippa13 1844]

If you are clearing the front of the net and going at the back of a forward then you have already lost the position battle. You want to get your stick under the forward's, lifting it and driving him out to the side. So many goals get scored because the forward's stick is on the ice and the defenseman has both hands in his back.

[Chadd 916]

If you are clearing the front of the net and going at the back of a forward then you have already lost the position battle. You want to get your stick under the forward's, lifting it and driving him out to the side. So many goals get scored because the forward's stick is on the ice and the defenseman has both hands in his back.

Take away his stick and the offensive player becomes pretty much useless. If I am trying to deny body position to an offensive player, I will often take one hand off my stick. I use the stick to try and deny the puck and the free arm to try and deny body position. If the player is in a potential scoring area or there is a shot coming, I keep both hands on the stick and try to prevent the offensive guy from getting his on the ice or puck.

[pondchief 2]

I agree with Afftondad. You said its a defense camp, so I am assuming they are talking about stepping up on a forward while skating backwards. One hand on the stick with a good stick on puck which also gives you a good gap. As the gap closes leading with the free hand into the chest of the puck carrier keeps you infront of the puck carrier and leads the shoulder into the chest. Now if you were talking about forechecking and leading with the hands for a hit you are asking for 2 min.