Graf oven temperature range

[cmflynn 16]

Hey all, I just got myself a pair of Tacks from IceWarehouse and decided to have them baked at a shop rather than doing it myself (which I have done successfully before with my vapors). So I went PureHockey yesterday to get them baked, and I noticed that they used a Graf oven to bake them, and they baked them together for 4 min. So I laced them up and followed the associates instructions, sat for 10 min then they told me to stand up and walk around to see how they felt. They felt a little loose but at the time I just assumed it was because I wasn't using wax laces and can never seem to tie cloth as tight as I like. So I laced them up and left them over night, and today I took off the stock laces to throw on my wax ones, I noticed that the eyelet bars are the same as they were before they were baked (standing straight up, not wrapping around the foot like my vapors did after baking). I then double checked the bake instructions on the box (which I should have done before I took them in) and it said to bake them for 2 min @ 220 degrees one at a time, so now I'm wondering if either the salesperson didn't know what they were doing or the graf oven doesn't get to 220 because the skates didn't really feel that warm when I put them on. I'm thinking of taking them bake to be redone, but if the problem is the oven I'm not sure what the point is, so I'm looking for advice on how to proceed

[Buzz_LightBeer 969]

Simplest explanation if I had to guess; they should sit in a preheated oven for 4 minutes, not 4 minutes while a cold oven heats up. Politely ask them to redo it.

Also, keep in mind that some skates are designed to be "straight wall" skates and not all will wrap over your foot

[jonesy9020 77]

220 is also pretty high for skates. Some places will assume 180 and just go with that unless you tell them otherwise. That said, I find it highly doubtful that the graf oven can't hit 220. Despite being on the high end, there have been a good number of skates that needed those temps.

[flip12 714]

or the graf oven doesn't get to 220 because the skates didn't really feel that warm when I put them on.

If I'm not mistaken, even though the oven is 220 when they go in, the skates won't feel crazy hot just from being in there for two minutes. When I baked my MLX at home at 100-C (212-F) for 15-minutes, they didn't feel overly hot.

[gogovs 10]

That is exactly why I bake my skates at home. I bought myself a cheap oven thermometer in Walmart to make sure the temperature is as it suppose to be and matches the oven thermometer. One skate at the time. If you are not confident to do it on your own due to warranty, take them back and have then re-bake it following the manufacturer's instructions.

[cmflynn 16]

Simplest explanation if I had to guess; they should sit in a preheated oven for 4 minutes, not 4 minutes while a cold oven heats up. Politely ask them to redo it.

Also, keep in mind that some skates are designed to be "straight wall" skates and not all will wrap over your foot

I'm pretty sure they're supposed to wrap around (isn't that one of the benefits of baking?), they wrap when I lace them, I just have to really crank down and hold between pulls to get them tight. I'm definitely going to take them back ($30 for 5 min of work I'd kind of expect them to be done right), my only concern is that if the Graf oven doesn't go to 220 deg will it make a difference?

If I'm not mistaken, even though the oven is 220 when they go in, the skates won't feel crazy hot just from being in there for two minutes. When I baked my MLX at home at 100-C (212-F) for 15-minutes, they didn't feel overly hot.

I baked my x70's at home (preheat to 190, shut oven off, baked for 8 min) and they were definitely warmer and more pliable than the tacks were when they came out.I just assumed it was the difference in materials time (I also assumed the person I was paying to bake the skates knew what they were doing). So I guess I should also ask if higher end skates should feel significantly softer when they come out of the oven?

[Buzz_LightBeer 969]

I'm pretty sure they're supposed to wrap around (isn't that one of the benefits of baking?), they wrap when I lace them, I just have to really crank down and hold between pulls to get them tight. I'm definitely going to take them back ($30 for 5 min of work I'd kind of expect them to be done right), my only concern is that if the Graf oven doesn't go to 220 deg will it make a difference?

I baked my x70's at home (preheat to 190, shut oven off, baked for 8 min) and they were definitely warmer and more pliable than the tacks were when they came out.I just assumed it was the difference in materials time (I also assumed the person I was paying to bake the skates knew what they were doing). So I guess I should also ask if higher end skates should feel significantly softer when they come out of the oven?

They likely will, I just meant comparatively between a vapor and tacks, they probably won't wrap equally when broken in.

[customskateworks 39]

Most of the ovens at shops are all the same regardless of what manufacturer is stamped on them. The heating elements are all made by the same company in Denmark and the temperature is pre set to about 180 F. So without making some (unsafe) modifications to the oven you aren't going to get your skates any hotter. You aren't getting a "wrap" on your Tacks because of the CCM Attack Frame. Which is the carbon fiber skeleton that extends through the eyelet stays. Carbon fiber is not a thermo plastic and will not change it's shape when heated.

[cmflynn 16]

Well, I'm assuming the CCM oven goes to 220F because that's what the Tacks bake instructions call for. I'm guessing I'm probably not going to get a proper bake from the Graf because 40F is a significant difference

[customskateworks 39]

We have a Graf oven we bake skates in, including Tacks, everyday without issues. We also use a CCM oven that has the exact same heating element screwed to the back of the enclosure. I also have a Mission oven that's about 10 years old that has the same heating element (it also has a plywood door because I dropped a hammer on it awhile back). All 3 ovens are within 10F of each other, I've tested with an infrared thermometer. The inside temperature also bounces around a bit because the door doesn't actually seal. Don't let the $800 price tag fool you into thinking they are sophisticated ovens. Manufacturers do not currently build skates that require heating outside existing oven capabilities, because shops aren't going to buy an oven for every pair of skates they have on the wall, nor are there any fancy new materials being used that require it. The last skate to use something truly different was the Mako. Their solution to get a proper bake.... leave them in longer. 2 minutes at 220F isn't going to get you different results than 3-4 minutes at 180F.

[KoT 2]

Buzz_LightBeer

some skates are designed to be "straight wall" skates

Example? Vapor have nice warp after baking or what you mean?

[Buzz_LightBeer 969]

I believe the higher end supreme boots are designed to "wrap" more when heated as compared to vapor boots. At least that's how it was explained by a Bauer rep.

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

I believe the higher end supreme boots are designed to "wrap" more when heated as compared to vapor boots. At least that's how it was explained by a Bauer rep.

As well as the fact that the facing is curved more than Vapor.

[cmflynn 16]

How much wrap should I be getting from the Tacks? As it is they are pretty much the same as out of the box, which is killing my fingers when lacing because the walls are pulling the laces apart so I'm having a hard time getting the right tightness

[golee334 1]

How much wrap should I be getting from the Tacks? As it is they are pretty much the same as out of the box, which is killing my fingers when lacing because the walls are pulling the laces apart so I'm having a hard time getting the right tightness

I'm a manger over at the Pure Hockey in Marlborough. Just remember that you are baking a skate that is made with high end materials and needs time to break in. The baking process allows the skate to start this process. The skate will wrap more but more you need to wear it. The Vapors you have are a mid range skate and aren't as stiff as the tacks. CCM has told me that they do recommend baking the skates twice but to bake them, wear them and if you want to improve the fit do it again. The more you bake them, the more you can over work the skate. But if you continue to have problems let us know and we can fix it for you.