Hasek-style Goalie Helmet

[ktang 34]

Is it safe to use a heavier VN helmet with a cage, or is it better to get the form-fitting helmets?

[bunnyman666 445]

Kustom Composites builds a Hasek-style SK2000 type helmet from fibreglass or Kevlar. Warwick also builds a Hasek-type helmet. OTNY builds combo cages for both the helmets and the Mage masques.

[psulion22 402]

Keep in mind that regular SK2000's, and most player helmets have a flat forehead. That is a no-no for a goalie because it dosn't deflect a puck. If you prefer that "Hasek-style" mask, look into a Sportmask Mage. They aren't too expensive, but are good masks that fit like a helmet and cage combo. It is what Timmy Thomas wears, though is is obviously more protective.

http://www.sportmask.com/goalie-masks/combo-mage.html

https://www.thegoaliecrease.com/display_product.asp?product_id=2827

[bunnyman666 445]

CCM HT2 is a definite no no. I wouldn't even think of using a 30 year old SK2000 and the SK600 is also a no no.

Kustom Composites and Warwick's clone don't have the flat forehead.The Mage is also an excellent choice, as I wear a Kustom Composites Mage-style (I call mine "Timmy") as well as the Hasek-style bowl helmet shaped somewhat like an SK2000. Sportmask's original Mage is now available for around $400 CAD.

[psulion22 402]

CCM HT2 is a definite no no. I wouldn't even think of using a 30 year old SK2000 and the SK600 is also a no no.

Kustom Composites and Warwick's clone don't have the flat forehead.The Mage is also an excellent choice, as I wear a Kustom Composites Mage-style (I call mine "Timmy") as well as the Hasek-style bowl helmet shaped somewhat like an SK2000. Sportmask's original Mage is now available for around $400 CAD.

Yeah I only suggested the Mage because it's moderately priced and readily available. How much would a custom Hasek mask be through KC?

[bunnyman666 445]

I think $700 USD for a senior (fibre glass). He now does a two piece, which fits like the old SK2000, so a bit more expensive than a Sportmask Mage. But what Shawn does is not production.

[ktang 34]

Thanks for the info! I didn't know that goalie helmets were so expensive, so I will be saving up.

[bunnyman666 445]

If you have an SK2000 helmet, Shawn can build you a fibreglass front and provide a new set of foams for around $300.

[Law Goalie 147]

What the hell, I may as well be comprehensive-- who knows how many moons it'll be until I post again.

Kev, the SK2000 front-piece bunny references above is a very good deal, and Shawn Schroeder is very well respected. If you want to go that route, by all means do.

That aside, the best deal in goalie masks remains Michel Doganieri at Protechsport. Send him a plaster mold of your head, and for $300, he'll send you a custom-fitted fibreglass mask made with the highest-quality glass cloth and epoxy resins you can find. These masks will fit better and offer protection on par with the highest-level masks you can buy. (Michel used to make all the masks for Reebok/CCM's pro/junior/college goalies; now he only makes a lot of them.)

For the record, carbon fibre and aramid (kevlar) do not improve the protection of a mask. Aramid is lighter, requires fewer layers for equal strength, and *may* offer some reduction in post-impact ringing (though there's no direct proof of this). Carbon fibre increases shell stiffness, but this too is really just a way to use less glass.

Moreover, there is a strong argument that *for a goalie* a heavier mask may help in impact attenuation, since a heavier mask has greater inertia. The problem with heavy helmets, generally, is that when you get knocked down, adding weight and inertia to the head adds to the force of the 'whiplash' effect that causes so many concussions. Goalies, however, have a significantly reduced likelihood of concussions in hockey. What goalies deal with, instead, are repeated sub-clinical impacts (ie. impacts that wouldn't even register on a concussion scale) , which are not (yet) well understood in the scientific literature; they're not catastrophic, but they are likely cumulative within an as-yet unknown timeframe.

In the interim (the drawback to Michel is his wait-time, but he keeps that info updated on the website, and he's reduced it significantly), using a regular VN helmet is almost certainly better than buying an 'imitation mask' made of Lexan and EPP that will likely cost more a Protechsport.

That said, there is good value at retail. Sportmask makes quality shells, but they use weaker, less expensive resins; ditto Hackva, whose base model is built to the same specs as a Bauer (formerly Itech) Pro 960-series. For my money, I'd always suggest Protechsport, but if you're short on time there are options.

Just remember how much money and time you spent filling and shaping your brain with education: a few hundred bucks to protect that investment is the best money you'll ever spend.

[ktang 34]

Thanks for all the information! I ended up getting a heavier Itech mask on Kijiji. I showed it to our team's goalie, and he confirmed that it is fibreglass (not a plastic one), and he helped me adjust it properly. Got a couple of new sweat bands and used it last week.

[Law Goalie 147]

Good call. Is it a 950-series, a 9000, or a 4600? If you throw up some pics, we can probably ID it.

[Law Goalie 147]

Holy shit... yeah, that was about when I went underwater, wasn't it?

[psulion22 402]

What the hell, I may as well be comprehensive-- who knows how many moons it'll be until I post again.

Kev, the SK2000 front-piece bunny references above is a very good deal, and Shawn Schroeder is very well respected. If you want to go that route, by all means do.

That aside, the best deal in goalie masks remains Michel Doganieri at Protechsport. Send him a plaster mold of your head, and for $300, he'll send you a custom-fitted fibreglass mask made with the highest-quality glass cloth and epoxy resins you can find. These masks will fit better and offer protection on par with the highest-level masks you can buy. (Michel used to make all the masks for Reebok/CCM's pro/junior/college goalies; now he only makes a lot of them.)

For the record, carbon fibre and aramid (kevlar) do not improve the protection of a mask. Aramid is lighter, requires fewer layers for equal strength, and *may* offer some reduction in post-impact ringing (though there's no direct proof of this). Carbon fibre increases shell stiffness, but this too is really just a way to use less glass.

Moreover, there is a strong argument that *for a goalie* a heavier mask may help in impact attenuation, since a heavier mask has greater inertia. The problem with heavy helmets, generally, is that when you get knocked down, adding weight and inertia to the head adds to the force of the 'whiplash' effect that causes so many concussions. Goalies, however, have a significantly reduced likelihood of concussions in hockey. What goalies deal with, instead, are repeated sub-clinical impacts (ie. impacts that wouldn't even register on a concussion scale) , which are not (yet) well understood in the scientific literature; they're not catastrophic, but they are likely cumulative within an as-yet unknown timeframe.

In the interim (the drawback to Michel is his wait-time, but he keeps that info updated on the website, and he's reduced it significantly), using a regular VN helmet is almost certainly better than buying an 'imitation mask' made of Lexan and EPP that will likely cost more a Protechsport.

That said, there is good value at retail. Sportmask makes quality shells, but they use weaker, less expensive resins; ditto Hackva, whose base model is built to the same specs as a Bauer (formerly Itech) Pro 960-series. For my money, I'd always suggest Protechsport, but if you're short on time there are options.

Just remember how much money and time you spent filling and shaping your brain with education: a few hundred bucks to protect that investment is the best money you'll ever spend.

This is great information. Thanks

So for $300, Protechsport will make me a custom molded fibreglass, but heavy, mask. I don't know that I've ever held a Protechsport mask, is the base version on par with a Hackva in terms of weight? Is there a more expensive version made with Aramid or Carbon fiber to reduce the weight? I wear a NXi Phantom, which is really just a better EPP/Lexan mask, with Maltese foam. I have never had a ringer in it, ever. While it certainly does not offer the same protection as the Protechsport, it is light and very well balanced. I've worn a friend's Hackva and it felt like I had an anvil on my head. I'm definitely interested in upgrading my protection, but I don't know that I am willing to sacrifice that much weight.

[Hills 712]

I'm pretty sure Hackva's are the heaviest helmet there is... I should weigh mined tonight.

[Law Goalie 147]

PSU, I had an NXI Phantom (the final model with the laser-cut 'NXI' earholes) right before I got my Protechsport. The Protechsport was a major upgrade in protection, and the increase in weight was minimal. I got the 'Full Kevlar' model, but in retrospect, I would have preferred to get two fibreglass masks for the same price: that way I'd have had a backup *and* 'home and away' masks. (Vanity, vanity...)

As to weight, Michel's estimates are 2.2lbs for 'Full Kevlar' and 3lbs for all-glass: pretty light, in other words. (See http://www.protechsport.com/en/masks) Naturally, there's some variation in weight based on the size of the shell and cage, the number of holes, etc.

All shells come with a lifetime guarantee; the cage is guaranteed against broken welds. Michel does sell replacements in case of bent bars, but you can also get them from Otny; just tell them what model you have.

You get your choice of round or triangular holes, wherever and however many you like (within reason), chin sling (which I recommend) or chin-cup, strap-colour, cage material and style, and solid paint colour.

To be clear, what you get for $300 is a custom-fitted mask. Michel pops your head-mold through his pro-custom shells until he finds one that is ideal, and then pads it to match your head. (Incidentally, if you ask for black foam, he uses EVA-- which I massively prefer to VN for both impact diffusion, durability, and antibacterial purposes. Six years on, the foam feels like it's brand new.)

[psulion22 402]

PSU, I had an NXI Phantom (the final model with the laser-cut 'NXI' earholes) right before I got my Protechsport. The Protechsport was a major upgrade in protection, and the increase in weight was minimal. I got the 'Full Kevlar' model, but in retrospect, I would have preferred to get two fibreglass masks for the same price: that way I'd have had a backup *and* 'home and away' masks. (Vanity, vanity...)

You get your choice of round or triangular holes, wherever and however many you like (within reason), chin sling (which I recommend) or chin-cup, strap-colour, cage material and style, and solid paint colour.

To be clear, what you get for $300 is a custom-fitted mask. Michel pops your head-mold through his pro-custom shells until he finds one that is ideal, and then pads it to match your head. (Incidentally, if you ask for black foam, he uses EVA-- which I massively prefer to VN for both impact diffusion, durability, and antibacterial purposes. Six years on, the foam feels like it's brand new.)

Thanks, LG. That's the NXi I have, with the laser lettered ear holes. I see he makes an in between version. Is it worth the extra money to get the Kevlar forehead and chin? It seems like that adds weight without any protection, as you mentioned earlier.

So the face mold is only for selecting the shell and fitting the foam? Can I just get an appropriate shell and use my Maltese? I agree and prefer EVA to VN, but I prefer my Maltese to either of those. I'd assume that it would be faster to just get the shell and pad it myself if he could select the right model from measurements. I do have to make a face mold for Halloween costume, but that may not be for another few weeks. I don't want to add that to the already 13 week production time. Cutting that down and using my Maltese would be even better.

Thanks for all the info. I tried to find this stuff on the website but wasn't able to.

[Law Goalie 147]

If I remember right, you can send him the Maltese gel, and he'll include that in his selection of the shell; that is, he'll pick a shell that fits both your head and the gel. I'm pretty sure someone (probably from GSBB) has done exactly this before. Either way, I'd suggest emailing Michel before you send in the mold and the cheque, just to confirm the details with him, and to give him an email to refer back to later on. English is not his first language, but he's very friendly and conversant over email; if you happen to be in Montreal, he'll invite you right into his workshop.

The 'in-between', forehad-and-chin version is, by Michel's own description, a stupid compromise that people kept demanding, so he lists it as an option. There is *zero* advantage to it; it just uses some material with a cool name, costs $150 more than the fibreglass model, and blunts his shears cutting aramid cloth for no good reason. I don't mean to be overly harsh -- almost everyone who's thought about Protechsport has considered the 'in-between' model at some point, for exactly the reasons you have -- but there really are only two models worth considering.

Seriously, the only question you need to ask yourself is with respect to weight. If you love lighter masks, shell out for the full Kevlar, but realise that you're paying double -- albeit still a VERY reasonable price, especially with the Canadian dollar hovering around 20% less than USD -- to save roughly 0.8lbs. My personal suggestion, having had a full Kevlar Protechsport for years and loved every minute of it, is to get the fibreglass model.

Oh, and I should also mention that he has a fantastic selection of Tim Thomas-style 'cheater' cages.

And you also get to pick the size of the window for the face (based on which shell you get and the cage you select) and you can have the perimeter inside the cage painted a different solid colour than the rest of the mask; ditto for the backplate, IIRC.

He also has a selection of brand decals, including Koho, RBK, Reebok, his own, and, I believe CCM.

All that aside, trust his judgment; if he suggests something, it's probably for good reason.

[psulion22 402]

Thanks again. I'll email him to get all the details and to get the process started. Should I say you referred me to him?

[bunnyman666 445]

Thanks to Law Goalie, I have enquired about the Protectsport masques. Michel said to me 17-19 weeks lead time ONLY after he has received payment and head mould. Whilst deliriously happy with my Kustom Composites SK2000 clone and my Mage-style from Kustom (I call it "Timmy"), something like this seems too good to resist. Normally, I'd be climbing the walls over someone having 100% of my money and waiting that amount of time, but the rub is that you're getting something that is nicer than the fibreglass you'd find in a pro shoppe that is customised to fit. Knowing that the wait is going to be that long up front, along with the knowlege that masques get delivered takes the sting out of the long wait.

I don't know how large of a window he does. I would want a window the maximum size 'cos I get claustrophobic in some masques. I may just have to save my clams, make a head mould, and get something going.

[Law Goalie 147]

Cheers guys: glad to hear I could help.

PSU, you can if you like, but it's not at all necessary; he's just not that kind of guy. He knows everyone finds out about him through word-of-mouth or the online goalie forums because he doesn't advertise at all, though that's common among the top-tier mask makers: Jerry Wright, Ed Cubberly, and so on. My impression is that he doesn't really care where you play or who you know; he just wants to make you a good mask, because he knows how important that is to the game.

Bunny, the size of the window is contingent on which shell fits best and which cage you select. Just ask him which cage will allow him to make you the biggest possible window. I dimly recall that the cheater-cages force you to have a smaller window, generally, and the straight-bar cage allows the largest, but check with the man himself.

Michel is the last guy in the world you need to worry about paying up front.

[ktang 34]

My newly-acquired 3rd-hand mask.

I don't know what those 2 upper snaps on the strap are for:

Inside:

[Law Goalie 147]

I'm 99% sure that's an Itech 950 shell. Despite what your goalie told you, the 950 wasn't actually a true fibreglass and resin composite, but a 'sheet moulded composite' that used cheaper materials and was much cheaper to make.

The good news is that they were actually pretty solid masks, despite their rather poor reputation on the internet. Their original cages were thin and crappily made (yours has been replaced; see below), and they tended to fail spectacularly -- cracking open like an egg, particularly when subjected to compression, or after they gradually chipped and cracked in from the perimeter, which is where the design was weakest -- but they were surprisingly solid with puck impacts. I suspect this was in large part because of the inertia of the heavier shell; if you added a heavier cage, they became real tanks.

Yours looks to be pretty free from perimeter damage, and I can't see any cracks, so it should last decently well. To protect the perimeter, and add a little dash of style, if you like, get some car door edge molding or trim from an auto shop; even Canadian Tire carries some variety of colours. You may need to add a little extra adhesive to get it to stick really well, but it's very effective stuff.

The bad news, unfortunately, is that somebody replaced the crappy, likely-destroyed original cage with one that doesn't really fit, using inappropriate hardware. If you look at the mask from the side, the only thing preventing the bottom of the cage from being driven back into your teeth are those two *plastic* brackets on the bottom. The cage itself is from a Van Velden mask (or one of VV's clones, e.g. Vaughn) and while the wire looks pretty solid, it really doesn't fit all that well. You can see, for instance, the two empty screw-holes on either side, at the top of the cage, where the previous owner couldn't get the fifth and sixth clips to fit.

You should be able to find replacement metal clips at your local hardware store or Canadian Tire; probably not, in my experience, Home Depot or Rona. There are even some that are lined with rubber or coated with epoxy, which can help take some of the sting out of shots. (Also look for rubber washers: the discerning goalie's second best secret weapon, right beyond Jenpro/leather washers.)

As for the cage, OTNY Wire sells replacement cages for $80, and you can have some peace of mind knowing that the cage you buy will actually fit; they make cages for everyone:

http://www.otnywire.com/bauer-itech/

I would also strongly suggest having the padding replaced; that's the original VN, and I doubt it's got much spring left, even if it still feels relatively soft.

It's also quite easy to replace the elastic straps, which are probably pretty dead; that knitted elastic can be bought by the foot or yard in almost any fabric shop. Just bring some of the old stuff with you as a sample. IIRC, the 950 used 3/4" elastic instead of 1", which may make it a little harder to find; if you can only find 1", buying new plastic clips will be really cheap.

So, all in all, not a bad mask to pick up cheaply on Kijiji! It should give you at least a few years of worry-free confrontation with little black discs.

Oh, and I have no idea what those upper clips on the back could be. Are they punched into the strap, or right through into the backplate?

[ktang 34]

I just disassembled the chin strap, back shell straps, and cage.

The cage's bottom 2 plastic clips were broken. I didn't know there were supposed to be 6 attachment points!

The back webbing is going through the washer. It is still pretty springy, but I will try to pick up some replacement strap material for down the road. The 2 mystery snaps are only on the webbing.

I have VN, so I was going to take out the original padding, trace it out, and glue in the new VN.

I have extra metal cage clips for now, but I will order the proper cage.

I took a hard shot off the forehead, and the helmet did its job.

Thanks again!

[Law Goalie 147]

That first shot is always a little make-or-break in a goalie's confidence in a mask.

Eek on the plastic clips, but at least you caught it in time!

If the webbing's still springy, the washer may do the trick. That, by the way, is something every goalie should do regularly. Most of the time a goalie complains about his mask smelling pad, he'll blame the foam, but what he smells from from the straps.

I should have known you'd have enough VN to re-pad the mask! Take the opportunity to fill in as much of the empty space between your head and the stock padding as you can; gaps are really, really bad for transferring impacts.

Oh, I may also have a cage for you. Check your PMs.

[ktang 34]

It looks like the back plate webbing was from another mask, because they are 1" wide. They were also not threaded properly, so now I have that fixed.

The rubatex padding was as hard as a rock, and the first dunk in the detergent / oxi clean turned the water dark brown. Then after a few more dunks, the water turned greenish. In all, it needed 10 dunks before the water remained bluish (detergent colour), and then I let is soak overnight. Now the padding is soft and relatively smell-free. Some of it broke loose from the shell, so I'm going to use some polyurethane adhesive to reattach it when everything has dried off.

The chin cup was extra smelly, but after a few washes it is much better.

I can't believe I played a game without cleaning out the mask and at least checking those plastic clips!