Narrow heel, wide forefoot

[Matt42 1]

What skates have a wide forefoot and a narrow heel? I am currently in 8D RBZ's with the forefoot punched out (still get some pain if I lace them too tight). My heels are slipping quite a bit in them too and I've noticed that vapor's lock my heel down great. If anyone has any suggestions on what skates to try, or how to get better heel lock in my RBZ's that would be great. My budget is around $300-$400, thanks

[althoma1 575]

I have a very wide forefoot and a narrow to average heel and the EE Makos work well after baking. They were tight before baking, but after they fit like supportive running shoes and are very comfortable in the forefoot area, but still lock in the heel. Assuming your RBZ's fit as they should with your toes brushing the cap, you'd probably need to go up a half or full size in the Makos as the RBZs fit a half to a full size longer than most brands. So you'd be looking at an 8.5EE or possibly a 9EE (the 8.5 is more likely).

The original Makos had durability issues (the ones with the silver heel and the orange accents), but this was addressed with the M7, M8 and Mako II. The top of the line Mako II has been available on clearance for around $400 (used to be $800). The mid-line Mako M8 was just on sale at HockeyMonkey on Friday for $200 (used to be $600) and the M7 was $140 (formerly $400). So you should definitely be able to find a Mako II, M8 or M7 in your price range. There's a huge thread on this site discussing the Mako line in great detail.

[Matt42 1]

9 minutes ago, althoma1 said:

I have a very wide forefoot and a narrow to average heel and the EE Makos work well after baking. They were tight before baking, but after they fit like supportive running shoes and are very comfortable in the forefoot area, but still lock in the heel. Assuming your RBZ's fit as they should with your toes brushing the cap, you'd probably need to go up a half or full size in the Makos as the RBZs fit a half to a full size longer than most brands. So you'd be looking at an 8.5EE or possibly a 9EE (the 8.5 is more likely).

The original Makos had durability issues (the ones with the silver heel and the orange accents), but this was addressed with the M7, M8 and Mako II. The top of the line Mako II has been available on clearance for around $400 (used to be $800). The mid-line Mako M8 was just on sale at HockeyMonkey on Friday for $200 (used to be $600) and the M7 was $140 (formerly $400). So you should definitely be able to find a Mako II, M8 or M7 in your price range. There's a huge thread on this site discussing the Mako line in great detail.

Thanks for your recommendation, I'll have to try to find some Mako's to try on (most likely m8's). Do you have any problems with depth in your Mako's, I have a moderately deep foot?

[althoma1 575]

9 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Thanks for your recommendation, I'll have to try to find some Mako's to try on (most likely m8's). Do you have any problems with depth in your Mako's, I have a moderately deep foot?

I don't have any depth issues - the depth is just about perfect for me, but with that said, several people in the Mako thread have said that while the Makos are a little shallow for them they haven't had any lace bite issues. I know the metatarsal guard on the M8, OG Mako and Mako II is pretty substantial. The heat molding properties are much better than most retail skates - instead of baking 3 to 5 minutes to help with break in you're actually baking 10 minutes to shape the boot to your foot. The boot feels like Play Doh when you take it out of the oven and then stiffens back up once it cools.

Oh, and I see the M8's are still $200 on HM, but they only have 8.5 and 9 in D widths. Depending on how wide your foot is those may work for you as they do really mold well. My feet are super wide in the forefoot so I definitely needed the EE's.

[Matt42 1]

10 minutes ago, althoma1 said:

I don't have any depth issues - the depth is just about perfect for me, but with that said, several people in the Mako thread have said that while the Makos are a little shallow for them they haven't had any lace bite issues. I know the metatarsal guard on the M8, OG Mako and Mako II is pretty substantial. The heat molding properties are much better than most retail skates - instead of baking 3 to 5 minutes to help with break in you're actually baking 10 minutes to shape the boot to your foot. The boot feels like Play Doh when you take it out of the oven and then stiffens back up once it cools.

Oh, and I see the M8's are still $200 on HM, but they only have 8.5 and 9 in D widths. Depending on how wide your foot is those may work for you as they do really mold well. My feet are super wide in the forefoot so I definitely needed the EE's.

I will most likely need EE's as I have an extremely wide forefoot also. I'll be looking for a pair at my local stores and hopefully be able to try on a pair without orderering, if not I'll definitely have to try these. Thank you so much for your help, these sound just about right as long as the depth is on par, along with the forefoot width

[althoma1 575]

They will feel super tight in the forefoot before baking - you really can't get a true feel for the Makos without baking them. Some shops will bake them or at least partially bake them before you purchase them. Finding them locally is ideal, but certain sizes will start to be hard to come by since they've been on clearance for several months now.

[Matt42 1]

12 minutes ago, althoma1 said:

They will feel super tight in the forefoot before baking - you really can't get a true feel for the Makos without baking them. Some shops will bake them or at least partially bake them before you purchase them. Finding them locally is ideal, but certain sizes will start to be hard to come by since they've been on clearance for several months now.

Hopefully there will be a pair in my size locally, and they will bake or partially bake them as I would definitely not like to waste money on skates that will not be wide enough on my forefoot as I did my RBZ's (bought them in February)

[krisdrum 233]

I'm in the same boat Matt.  Vapors in a EE have worked decently for me.  I had the punch the forefoot a bit, but not too bad.  I'm now in some Graf 535 wides.  It is a softer boot, so that has been an adjustment, but the overall fit is better for me.  I'd look for either 535, 735, or if you can find them the G75 Lite in Graf.  They all share the same general fit parameters.  I haven't tried them, but the Ribcor in a EE might work as well.  

[Kgbeast 195]

Vapors have pretty shallow instep... The guy is in RBZ.... That is more of a Nexus territory although Nexus has wider heel.

If you consider Graf.... You are in luck.

http://www.hockeymonkey.com/graf-hockey-skates-g735-overload-sr.html

You can get a top of the line 735 Overload for $270. Note that you will need to go 1/2 size up from Bauer or CCM (perhaps the whole size up from RBZ line). For me, Nexus in size 10, fits pretty nice, but The Graf 535 (same fit as 735) is 10.5 and it fills just right. That said, RBZ claims to be 1/2 size different from other skates so you have to work that out. Basically my regular shoe size is US11.5. My Graf 535 are 10.5, Nexus 10, CCM Tacks 10. I wear R/D width in all. 

The  Beauty of Graf 535/735 as krisdrum also suggest, is that it has a nice pronounces heel, but wider forefoot and medium/high instep.... seemingly the combination you are after. I would say instep is between Supreme and Nexus, perhaps just a touch lower than RBZ, but heel will be narrower than RBZ. The leg just above the ankle is on a narrower side, so if you have stompy, wide legs at the bottom, you might be a bit snag there, but because of the upper flex in design of the boot, it should be pretty comfortable. One thing for sure, it will be a different experience from the RBZs as Graf 735 Overload is a lot more skate than RBZ. On differences side, Cobra holder is pretty close to CCM in the way it is pitched (unlike Bauer) but your RBZ holder would be 4mm taller that Graf, which should not be a problem for 99% of skating. Another difference, is that the Cobra holder is straight, vs CCM holder is slightly "bent" inwards (for improved attack angle). I think you'd like it better if the Graf 735 had Seven-97 holder instead of Cobra. Seven-97 (Attack) holder is also "bent" inwards a little just like the SB-4/SB-4+ does. Unfortunately, the only way you can get Seven-97 holders in this style of boot, would be getting Graf 535S, which is an awesome skate, but it is a much more basic in features, although at Monkeys $70 price-tag, it can be pretty hard to pass on it. Obviously, Graf 735 has a removable runners, which is kind of nice and you can potentially, get the runners from your old RBZs and have them put on... You probably can drill new set of holes in the RBZ runners yourself and pit those on the Graf boot to try...

Now be aware of the return policy on this. You can return for exchange or a store credit only. The skates must not be sharpened or baked, and must be in brand new condition. If you just return it and buy skates elsewhere, you will not get the refund, but the Monkey Sport store credit. You will have to pay for the return shipping (which probably will be over $20 unless you are in TX).

Now, also note if you get tempted to get Graf Gxxxx such as nice 9035. 8035, or 7035... which all are at a great price from HockeyMonkey. The fit is more of the same as Nexus line from Bauer. It has wide heel, and deep instep.. My size for those would be 10. This will be very similar feet to RBZ as far as the volume inside of it goes. If you are happy with the way RBZ fit, you should look into those. Do not get EE width as that will be to wide for you. Also note that these come if Flex 75 and Flex 85. If you above 180Lb, you will want Flex 85. These skate designed a little different. They are stiff all the way up (from bottom to ankle and from ankle to the top. More of a carbon-fiber/fiber-glass feel on the outside. Padding and liner are more of the CCM JetSpeed style. To me personally, it seems that Graf G series skates are basically the same as CCM Jetspeed in many respects apart from the fit. JetSpeeds are narrow, low instep, while Graf G are wide and deep instep.

Graf is one of the manufacturers that makes pretty much all of their skates heat-moldable including the most basic and children's models (except G35 I think), so you can bake them once you find something you like. Graf 735/535 like is no longer made, Graf G series skates are still made and sold. Graf also began to make 4mm higher Cobra runners to add the 4mm that they are lacking now from CCM and Bauer.

[Kgbeast 195]

1 minute ago, Kgbeast said:

double post

 

[Matt42 1]

Are Graf skates available at Total Hockey or Perani's to try on or is it something I would have to order to try on? I have no experience in Graf skates and have never tried any on.

[krisdrum 233]

Again, Vapors in a wide have worked for me.  YMMV.  I definitely get a better wrap with the 535s I have, but have had to work around lacebite issues in both.  The Nexus and Graf XX35 MCI series DO NOT work for me.  The heel is way too wide.  I  can basically pull my heel right out, but I have a very narrow heel compared to my forefoot.  The only boot I've tried that comes close to the lock I get with my Grafs is the Vapor.  And not sure I completely agree on the sizing advice.  I went from size 5 Vapors to size 5 Grafs, with the Grafs maybe being ever so slightly tighter.  They are very close in my experience.  

 

Matt - Not sure TH or Perani carry Graf.  You could order from a place like HockeyMonkey and just return them if they didn't work out, especially at some of the current prices they are offering.  Or see if a shop nearby carries them.  They are not nearly as popular as CCM or Bauer.  Their philosophy is "heel lock" and fit is everything.  So they have multiple models in multiple widths that cater to different foot and heel shapes.  They were very popular in the '90s and early '00s, but have fallen out of favor.  Their Canadian operations have folded, but there is still stock out there.  And their Swiss operations are still well established from what I understand.  They definitely have passionate users who swear by them.

[Matt42 1]

I'll have to visit my local stores to check for Mako's depth, and hopefully partially bake for width if they're in stock. I'll also be looking for Graf's locally (and order one or the other if none are in stock) as I've heard great things about both skates and the fit of Graf's sound just about what I need. I recently tried on a Nexus 9D but was having issues with width and heel lock, would an EE in Graf's be needed or is a D in Graf wider than a D in Nexus?

[markush 12]

supertacks in EE will be a perfect fit

[Kgbeast 195]

1 hour ago, Matt42 said:

I'll have to visit my local stores to check for Mako's depth, and hopefully partially bake for width if they're in stock. I'll also be looking for Graf's locally (and order one or the other if none are in stock) as I've heard great things about both skates and the fit of Graf's sound just about what I need. I recently tried on a Nexus 9D but was having issues with width and heel lock, would an EE in Graf's be needed or is a D in Graf wider than a D in Nexus?

I have tried Nexux N6000 and feels exactly as the Graf G3035... You do not want G series, too wide for your heel. You have ti try Graf X35 or Graf 35S or maybe 704. I doubt you can go to local store and find model and size. TotalHockey does cary thise lines, but I doubt they have them in stores as Graf is out of business in North America for at least a month or two more. So whatever you find is what they have left (hence the massive discounts). 

Another skate you can try on is CCM Tacks 4052 or 5052 or howmuch you want to spend. For me, Tacks to loose in the toebox...  maybe a little too roomy... not sure, it just was not my cup of tee. I tried size 10D. If you find that it fits you good, you might want just go with that. These should be in all the stores as these are pretty popular.

If you want to risk Graf, you will want to get them from HockeyMonkey.com and hope they work. I am pretty particular with length of the shoe and for me,with  Graf 535 definitely, I needed half size larger than anything I have tried (I have never tried vapors as they have no instep for me). My heel width is jsut right with R and will be too wide with EE. If you buy Graf from hockeymonkey.com, either model you go with, it is discounted $200+. With Graf having a major fan base and pretty significant brand recognition, I think you will not have problem selling those on ebay once they gone from the hockey-dot-coms for probably more than you pay for them now, especially if you do not bake them or. Buying skates from online is all risk and speculation. I wish y0u could get them from a real store, but you can not anymore.  

 

[krisdrum 233]

Just adding my opinion, again, YMMV.  

I found the Tacks to be too wide in the heel.  Nice in the forefoot though.  

Going R vs. W in the Graf really depends on your foot.  The difference is about 5mm.  I will say they are highly moldable when heated.  Frankly I could probably get away with a R width instead of the W, but the W wrap my foot better and I've narrowed the heel ever so slightly in my boots.  I also would not worry about baking the Grafs.  Unlike many brands, they can be heated and molded almost indefinitely.  I've had a local shop offer to mold them for me just to see how they felt, no pressure to buy, and these guys sell ALOT of Graf.  So if you get them, mold them, it will be the only way to truly see if they work for you.  

[Matt42 1]

Reading all of the Graf suggestions I am still a little lost, can someone explain the difference's of 535/535s, 735/735 Overload, G75 Lite, and "Gxxx" series.

[cwc2134 1]

In the same situation as all of you in here. Always been in vapors (EE). When talking about the Nexus skates are we talking about a D width or EE width. I imagine that would make a difference in the heel size. Pretty Limited in store options so i am open for suggestions. 

Thanks

[althoma1 575]

When I tried the top end Nexus skates a few years ago (Nexus 1000 I believe) in a D width they were quite wide in the heel. 

[krisdrum 233]

49 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Reading all of the Graf suggestions I am still a little lost, can someone explain the difference's of 535/535s, 735/735 Overload, G75 Lite, and "Gxxx" series.

Those are basically 2 different fit types.  535/735/G75Lite all fall under the wider forefoot/narrow heel fit.  The differences between them are the materials used in the boot, the amount of padding in the ankle area, and in the example of the "s" designation, the holder used.  Higher that first number, the better the materials used.  Personally I would look for the Cobra holder in the Grafs, as it is taller than the Attack used in most of the "S" series skates.  The "MCI" series, aka: G9035, 8035, 7035, etc. are closer to a Bauer Nexus fit.  These are the only skates Graf makes with a 4 digit model number.  Wide-ish forefoot and heel.  I have a pair of my nephew's 5035's (yes, I fit into junior skates) and the forefoot is nice, but the heel is cavernous.  Forefoot is slightly slimmer than my 535 wides with more volume/depth.  

[Giraffe14 23]

On 7/31/2016 at 10:01 PM, Matt42 said:

What skates have a wide forefoot and a narrow heel? I am currently in 8D RBZ's with the forefoot punched out (still get some pain if I lace them too tight). My heels are slipping quite a bit in them too and I've noticed that vapor's lock my heel down great. If anyone has any suggestions on what skates to try, or how to get better heel lock in my RBZ's that would be great. My budget is around $300-$400, thanks

I had a similar dilema, and it sounds like our feet are somewhat similar.  I too was in RBZ's, and had similar fit issues to what you described.  I ended up getting an SMU Bauer Nexus skate, that is essentially the N9000 but with a C width heel.  They fit me perfect, but since it is an SMU skate that probably won't help you much...  As others have mentioned, I would look to Graf or the new CCM SuperTacks.  

Good luck!