LS2 vs LS4 runners - differences?

[tregobo 4]

I was wondering if someone could give me a brief rundown on the difference between the two types of runners. I understand the quality of the steel is different and I understand what impact that had. What I am more interested in the impact it has on actual skating. I see that the LS4 has and extra 3mm of height to the blades, and that changes the turning radius from 9ft to 10ft. But what doe that turning radius really mean. Is it a case of sacrificing speed for tighter turning or something like that?

Thanks in advance.

[cmflynn 16]

Other way around. A longer radius should be faster while but not as great at turning, at least in theory. Also, the 3mm of height doesn't affect the radius, it just allows you to lean into turns deeper before the side of the boot hits the ice. It also means you can get a few more sharpening out of the runners because there is more steel

[tregobo 4]

5 minutes ago, cmflynn said:

Other way around. A longer radius should be faster while but not as great at turning, at least in theory

Thanks for the reply.

Isn't that more impacted by the flatness of the blade rather than the height of he blade? Or is that also a difference with the LS4's - they are more flat than LS2's?

[cmflynn 16]

That's what the radius of the blade is. The flatter the curve of the blade from heel to toe, the larger the radius, so yes, the LS4 is flatter than the LS2 because it's larger radius. The 3mm is a difference in the height of the blade only, it doesn't affect the radius. You could have the LS4 reprofiled to 9' if you preferred it.

[SolarWind 23]

the extra height of LS Edge holder (+3mm) plus the runner (LS3/LS4 - + another 3mm) does make a Huge difference in terms of the boot not bottoming out as easily. definitely makes for much deeper edges and aggressive stating.

The profile is a personal preference thing, can always be changed. One thing to keep in mind - if profiling to forward (+1) from the stock negative pitch (-1) it takes quite a bit of steel out, so having that extra 3MM to work with really helps actually.

[VegasHockey 1280]

On 9/20/2016 at 8:27 AM, tregobo said:

I was wondering if someone could give me a brief rundown on the difference between the two types of runners. I understand the quality of the steel is different and I understand what impact that had. What I am more interested in the impact it has on actual skating. I see that the LS4 has and extra 3mm of height to the blades, and that changes the turning radius from 9ft to 10ft. But what doe that turning radius really mean. Is it a case of sacrificing speed for tighter turning or something like that?

Thanks in advance.

 

LS4 is taller and stronger steel, bigger radius/profile. LS2 is shorter and a lesser quality steel, smaller radius. 

The LS2 has a smaller radius/profile than the LS4 out of the box. Most who use the LS3/4 steel get a custom profile/radius on them but it also depends on your foot size and how you skate. For me, the LS3/4 from the factory was a nightmare. I felt flat and couldn't maneuver, though I was substantially faster in a straight line. That's why I ended up with a custom combination profile/radius 8/12. 

As for the height, you might notice a difference if you are an aggressive skater who tends to carve hard since you have more room before your boot will contact the ice. I did notice a difference when I changed to the taller steel but remember, as time goes on, that steel will get shorter....

[GloriousLeader 31]

OP - FYI the radius of the runner is not "turning" radius. It's the radius of the profile of the rocker of the runner.

[tregobo 4]

Thanks everyone. These runners are for my 16 yr old son. He has two sets of LS2 runners that are worn down to nothing. I was able to get a set of LS4's (the new kind with only two notches) for only $60. They were used one time, so already sharpened. It was too good of a deal to pass up. I got them yesterday, and they were very clearly nearly new.

When I compared the profile of the LS4's to his old LS2's it was only very slightly different. The LS4's were only a tad flatter. Even at that I am wondering if it would have been the same profile as the LS2's before they were sharpened so many times. I know out of the box the profile is different, but I am thinking the LS4's may have had their profile changed on the first sharpen. I took some pictures but it is so hard to see that it is not worth posting.

At any rate, the LS2's were so worn down that a real sharp turn would sometimes cause the boot to touch the ice. I will see how he likes them tonight. 

 

[Kgbeast 195]

1 hour ago, tregobo said:

....When I compared the profile of the LS4's to his old LS2's it was only very slightly different. The LS4's were only a tad flatter. Even at that I am wondering if it would have been the same profile as the LS2's before they were sharpened so many times. I know out of the box the profile is different, but I am thinking the LS4's may have had their profile changed on the first sharpen.

 

I have posted a pic somewhere showing 10' profile arch and 8'atop of each other. The difference is almost imperceptible (probably less that 1/32 of an inch. So what you describing is making sense 10' vs 9' will be a hair.  

[VegasHockey 1280]

1 hour ago, Kgbeast said:

I have posted a pic somewhere showing 10' profile arch and 8'atop of each other. The difference is almost imperceptible (probably less that 1/32 of an inch. So what you describing is making sense 10' vs 9' will be a hair.  

 

The LS4 has a very large toe on the steel vs the LS2, from the ones I have seen anyway. Unless they changed this.

[flyers10 57]

My LS4 steel has similar profile like LS2 and Fusion. I went with it instead of LS3 for that reason. The LS3 had more material at the toe and heel.

[VegasHockey 1280]

On 9/22/2016 at 6:42 PM, flyers10 said:

My LS4 steel has similar profile like LS2 and Fusion. I went with it instead of LS3 for that reason. The LS3 had more material at the toe and heel.

Interesting, I always thought the LS4 was the same as the LS3 but just better steel. I had thought the LS2 and Fusion were the same profiles. 

[JR Boucicaut 3801]

On 9/22/2016 at 9:42 PM, flyers10 said:

My LS4 steel has similar profile like LS2 and Fusion. I went with it instead of LS3 for that reason. The LS3 had more material at the toe and heel.

I wouldn't put it that way.

LS4 has a more user-friendly profile, as in the heel and toe radius is shaped like LS2 and Fusion.  However, the working radius is 10' whereas LS2/Fusion is 9'.

LS3 has a working radius of 10', but the heel and toe radius are essentially unshaped.  LS3 definitely has to be shaped out of the box.

Just being a little more specific as to the fact that most people think of profile as the entire blade.

[VegasHockey 1280]

10 hours ago, JR Boucicaut said:

I wouldn't put it that way.

LS4 has a more user-friendly profile, as in the heel and toe radius is shaped like LS2 and Fusion.  However, the working radius is 10' whereas LS2/Fusion is 9'.

LS3 has a working radius of 10', but the heel and toe radius are essentially unshaped.  LS3 definitely has to be shaped out of the box.

Just being a little more specific as to the fact that most people think of profile as the entire blade.

 

Excellent way of putting it. The LS3 has a fat toe and heel. It definitely needs some contouring for a power forward or someone looking for mobility. Regardless, I get my blades profiled now so even if steel changes in the future I can always get the same profile. The only way this gets affected is if they change the pitch of the runner or boot. Then I have to adjust. The person who does my profiling has been in the business for ages and used to be an equipment manager in the NHL. It's weird how everytime I bring my skates to him for a sharpen he knows exactly how I skated in the last game (good, bad, more aggressive forward or spending more time covering defense) which blows my mind. I can't imagine what I will do if or when he gets out of business. 

[Giraffe14 23]

11 hours ago, JR Boucicaut said:

I wouldn't put it that way.

LS4 has a more user-friendly profile, as in the heel and toe radius is shaped like LS2 and Fusion.  However, the working radius is 10' whereas LS2/Fusion is 9'.

LS3 has a working radius of 10', but the heel and toe radius are essentially unshaped.  LS3 definitely has to be shaped out of the box.

Just being a little more specific as to the fact that most people think of profile as the entire blade.

Thanks for this explanation.  My new skates came with LS3, and when I compared them with new LS2 steel, I noticed the heel & toe of the LS3 seemed way "bulky"; whereas the LS2 heel/toe appeared  tapered, if that makes sense. 

I was unable to adjust to the LS3 with the 10' radius, felt like I was on skis.  I'll have the heel & toe shaped on the LS3, and give it another go.  There were some aspects of the 10' radius that I liked.