Hills' 2017 Pad Purchasing Decisions

[Hills 712]

Since Warrior are being massive jerks and releasing a pad this year that fits into what I am looking for in my next set, my choices just expanded so I figured I'd post a thread here as a "What am I going to do and why."

Overview:
I've been wearing Warrior G2 Pro return pads for 2 years now. I realized they are too small in the knee when I tried out 35+2 Koho 588 RPMs. While the Koho's were ridiculously heavier and slower sliding I felt more comfortable in them and played some of my best hockey in them. They are what made me realize why people still wear Reebok/CCM designs even though they are lacking in terms of innovation compared to other brands. They just felt "right". Below is a picture for reference.

Since I enjoy doing equipment reviews so much I figured I'd go all out on my next pad purchase. While buying used and pro return equipment will be cheaper, a full custom purchase is more fun and more relevant in terms of actually doing a write up on them (I have had a lot of people ask me to review my G2 pads and my Bauer gloves, but since both are pro return and could never be purchased at retail I didn't see the point [and they were considered older models when I got them]).

I had issue with a pair of really soft Battram pads, so decided to try out stiff pads that were relatively flat. While I like some of the advantages to these, using the Koho made me realize I didn't mind a pre-curved slightly softer pad either. This idea leaves me with the following choices (at the moment).



Bauer Vapor 1X Pads
I was originally going to try and sell off my Koho and Warrior pads at the same time to fund a purchase for a pair of Bauer Supreme 1S pads. Since I was having difficult moving them, and I had some issues with the pad's design (the nylon binding on the sliding surface really bothered me). I ended up waiting it out and heard saw the 1X in spy shots in the 1S graphic. From what I heard, the 1X will be a slightly softer pad than the 1S and it will be easier to curve. I was also told that the nylon binding on the sliding surface was removed, and thus durability should be increased. While people have been negative about the 1S graphic I actually enjoyed it, but the 1X graphic has me wondering. I would prefer to have colour zones instead of a very strict layout you have to choose from (which is one of the reasons I hate the Warrior G3 design). But from what I have seen so far, I actually like how the colours fade into each other. Here are the pictures I've gathered so far on them.






And lastly a red design, which would be close to what I would pick.


Pros:

• Extremely innovative
• Would be useful to get an actual review on them
• Graphic is interesting
• Tested the 1S quickly, felt and slid just as good as my Warrior G2s but felt less like a box around my legs

Cons:
 

• Bauer is seen as the evil one
• Graphic seems to be limiting
• Durability concerns
• Release date is Spring 2017

Warrior Ritual GT
Warrior being the jerks they are just teased the image below, which is their new line of goalie gear aimed at a more traditional and less boxy style pad.  I have had some under rotation issues with the G2's and these might fix that while still be extremely light weight. More information can be found in the link below which has made these one of my top candidates and a pad that I desperately want to try out. One thing to note is that I REALLY like how the orange is on the inside sliding edge of the grey based pads at the bottom, that would be my ideal design is something similar to that.

https://warriorhockey.com/2017/02/24/ritual-gt-tech-overview/

 

Pros:

• Pete Smith has been a leader in design and innovation, safe to assume these will be pretty different from anything else.
• Would be useful to get an actual review on them.
• Removed the post wedge.
• Single break below the knee fixes my issues with the G3s being too soft above the knee with the Profile Lock.
• I like the graphic options of these much more than the G3s.

Cons:

• I've had issues with Warrior 1st gen lines before, blocker was a big part of that, while they fixed a few of my complains I still prefer the finger protection of other blockers.
• I have had thigh rise seal issues with my current pads, where pucks can be jammed under them and these ones look to have the same inner medial roll design.

CCM Eflex 3
Now these are my "last resort" choice of pad. I really enjoyed my Koho, but from my understanding the Eflex 3 will be softer than those are. I'd go back to Koho but they will only be sold through Goalie Monkey and with the Canadian dollar cross boarder shopping is not really an option now. The only way I'd get Eflex 3s would be if I was able to make them stiffer than stock. I was thinking about the Premier line, but my one issue with the Koho pads was the round inner medial roll where as the Eflex has a flat inner medial roll.




Pros:
 

• If I can customize them to be like my Koho, I know exactly how they'll play and feel (which I know I like).
• I like the graphics custom options, having choices is a good thing.
• Evidently CCM significantly reduced weight this year.

Cons:

• CCM has a tendency of releasing pads which are almost identical to the previous years but with a graphic change.
• Usually not very innovative, so the reviews aren't nearly as useful.
• 2017 release date?

Vaughn Ventus SLR Pro Carbon
Vaughn Velocity pads have never really caught my eye, but since seeing the video below that Vaughn released on the SLR they have peaked my interest and look like a pad that would really fit my style. I am not a fan of the graphics since I like having the inside edge of the pad a colour that isn't white (like Brobovsky's above but all along the inside), but this style forces the inside colour to cover more than 50% of the pads width and to me that is too much of a single colour there. Ultimately design isn't that important if they play good, and I love the updated strapping on these pads.





Pros:

• Updated strapping system looks great, the elastic/leather blended boot strap is a great idea.
• The RRC strap or "Professor" strap is what I would want on a pad to ensure my knee stays in the knee cradle, I also like the hexagonal design and padding in the knee area.
• Tapered outer knee flap and strapping setup in the knee area is perfect for my big Passau knee pads.
• HD foam along the sliding edge is a nice touch to ensure that area is always solid (Warriors feel similar in terms of design there).
• Can be ordered right away!

Cons:

• No experience with Vaughn pads before.
• Not a fan of the graphic.

Passau

If I ended up going the Passau route I would probably go with a custom Potvin design similar to the ones below but with a white base and red and blue detailing for the bottom.

Pros:

• Canadian Made.
• Cheaper than other pads while being custom.
• Glove felt nice thanks to @IPv6Freely letting me try his out.
• Custom Graphics Available.

Cons:

• No real opportunities to try the pads on (no demo days or demo pads).
• Don't seem to be really innovative.
• To me don't have that "Wow" factor that other pads have.

Conclusion So Far:
I would like to move away from my Warriors as soon as possible because I feel as if I am feeling the height issues more and more. But I also want to try the pads out before I use them, which also tends to be very limiting as not every brand has demo pairs to try out.

Anyone have any thoughts or suggestions? I figured I'd make this just to show the journey of the ridiculous overthinking I do for everyone of my purchases.

[althoma1 574]

I'm not a goalie, but that's an interesting read nonetheless. I'd personally buy based on fit and performance over anything else. Getting custom graphics you love are nice, but it's better to have a piece of equipment that is an A+ fit and performance wise and a C looks wise then it is to get something that's an A+ looks wise, but only a B+ when it comes to fit and performance.

Since you feel the Passau and CCM pads don't seem to be very innovative I'd eliminate those two so you at least have your choice narrowed down to the Bauer, Warrior and Vaughan pads. Assuming all three of those pads fit and perform in a similar manner and it does come down to looks, I do think the Warrior pads are the most aesthetically pleasing (depending on the chosen colour combos, but I really like the white and red ones), followed by Bauer. I'm not a fan of the Vaughan graphic either.

[psulion22 402]

Interesting that you didn't put the Gnetik3 on your list.  That seems to be right along what you are looking for.  Soft, but still a solid core that allows for good sliding.  Fully customizable - specs, colors, graphics.  About as innovative as Warrior.  Truthfully, I don't think there is going to be much difference between the Gnetik3 and Ritual GT in terms of the way they play and flex.  The 1X is going to play like the G3 - a solid core, laterally stiff pad with softer breaks, (vs the 1S that has very stiff breaks).  The 1X will not have the torsional flex that you are looking for from others like the Gnetik3, R/GT, Vaughn, or EFlex.

 

[IPv6Freely 2091]

I guess it depends on what you're referring to with "innovative". If that's your #1 then I'd go Bauer all day. I just don't like them; they don't seem like they'd hold up that well and since I'm not a pro goalie I have to really consider longevity in my decisions.

For me personally, innovation (beyond the crazy stuff Bauer is doing with materials) really comes down to "how much legacy crap is on the pad?" For example:

• Does it have leather strapping?
• Does it have a full knee cradle?
• How is the toe bridge and ties constructed?
• Where are the bindings/seams located?

So in THAT regard, Bauer and Warrior are leading the way, with CCM and Vaughn being very traditional in that sense. I wouldn't touch either of those, personally. 

Brian's is a nice mix of the two at retail, with the ability to swing further one way or the other when going custom. 

Passau is full custom so you can go as "traditional" or as "innovative" as you like. Both Passau and Brians are the perfect mix for me personally because I love modern strapping etc, but also think stitched graphics looks infinitely nicer. I think Brian's is by far the leader in craftsmanship as well. 

I did notice Brian's isn't even on your list - how come? Anything specific ruling them out for you?

You know very well about the mess I went through with Passau (granted I had a very specific situation going on that caused a lot of those issues), but with the exchange rate I'd still have difficulty going to another brand just because I can get whatever I want but at a fraction of the cost. Obviously with you being in Canada this isn't really as much of a factor for you. 

 

[Hills 712]

1 hour ago, althoma1 said:

I'm not a goalie, but that's an interesting read nonetheless. I'd personally buy based on fit and performance over anything else. Getting custom graphics you love are nice, but it's better to have a piece of equipment that is an A+ fit and performance wise and a C looks wise then it is to get something that's an A+ looks wise, but only a B+ when it comes to fit and performance.

Since you feel the Passau and CCM pads don't seem to be very innovative I'd eliminate those two so you at least have your choice narrowed down to the Bauer, Warrior and Vaughan pads. Assuming all three of those pads fit and perform in a similar manner and it does come down to looks, I do think the Warrior pads are the most aesthetically pleasing (depending on the chosen colour combos, but I really like the white and red ones), followed by Bauer. I'm not a fan of the Vaughan graphic either.

The pads "should" all fit the same regardless and performance is all relative, the fastest sliding pad doesn't mean you will be a better goalie. The looks portion will be a complete afterthought though as it doesn't really matter to me. It will most likely come down to what pads I am able to try on and test out before buying over anything else.

 

12 minutes ago, psulion22 said:

Interesting that you didn't put the Gnetik3 on your list.  That seems to be right along what you are looking for.  Soft, but still a solid core that allows for good sliding.  Fully customizable - specs, colors, graphics.  About as innovative as Warrior.  Truthfully, I don't think there is going to be much difference between the Gnetik3 and Ritual GT in terms of the way they play and flex.  The 1X is going to play like the G3 - a solid core, laterally stiff pad with softer breaks, (vs the 1S that has very stiff breaks).  The 1X will not have the torsional flex that you are looking for from others like the Gnetik3, R/GT, Vaughn, or EFlex.

 

Brian's has the inside biding on the sliding edge, they don't really carry the innovation over compared to the 1X so that combination instantly rules them out for me. In fact I don't really see what Brian's has done from an innovation stand point beside remove leather straps (which while big, isn't something like a solid sliding wing or completely new materials).

I am not really looking for a softer pad, actually most of my post is saying many of the stock pads are too soft for my liking.

 

9 minutes ago, IPv6Freely said:

I guess it depends on what you're referring to with "innovative". If that's your #1 then I'd go Bauer all day. I just don't like them; they don't seem like they'd hold up that well and since I'm not a pro goalie I have to really consider longevity in my decisions.

For me personally, innovation (beyond the crazy stuff Bauer is doing with materials) really comes down to "how much legacy crap is on the pad?" For example:

• Does it have leather strapping?
• Does it have a full knee cradle?
• How is the toe bridge and ties constructed?
• Where are the bindings/seams located?

So in THAT regard, Bauer and Warrior are leading the way, with CCM and Vaughn being very traditional in that sense. I wouldn't touch either of those, personally. 

Brian's is a nice mix of the two at retail, with the ability to swing further one way or the other when going custom. 

Passau is full custom so you can go as "traditional" or as "innovative" as you like. Both Passau and Brians are the perfect mix for me personally because I love modern strapping etc, but also think stitched graphics looks infinitely nicer. I think Brian's is by far the leader in craftsmanship as well. 

I did notice Brian's isn't even on your list - how come? Anything specific ruling them out for you?

You know very well about the mess I went through with Passau (granted I had a very specific situation going on that caused a lot of those issues), but with the exchange rate I'd still have difficulty going to another brand just because I can get whatever I want but at a fraction of the cost. Obviously with you being in Canada this isn't really as much of a factor for you. 

 

The durability of the Bauer gear is a big reason the 1X pads were demoted from originally the front runners to pretty low on the list.

I don't really see the things you mention being innovative, but to me it is the new materials in Bauer or the solid landing wings and complete bindingless design in Warrior. While the Ritual GT don't really bring any new innovation to the table compared the the G3, my hopes are that the design makes it play a bit less boxy than my G2s do and the single internal break fits my play style more than the soft G3s.

Both the Vaughn and CCM seem to have made big changes from their previous versions, they are on the list because they might offer the more traditional feel of the Koho that I loved with the newer features my G2s bring.

Brian's has the binding on the inside edge so they are immediately gone for me. Passau doesn't seem to do anything special besides being the cheaper Made in Canada alternatives, to me they simply don't have the wow factor that would pull me away from another pair of pads. Although Passau might be on the list for a catcher, because if I have a preference for a specific piece I will go with that as I have a feeling the 1X glove wont be to my liking in terms of break angle but the 1X blocker is my current leader.

[psulion22 402]

2 minutes ago, Hills said:

Brian's has the inside biding on the sliding edge, they don't really carry the innovation over compared to the 1X so that combination instantly rules them out for me. In fact I don't really see what Brian's has done from an innovation stand point beside remove leather straps (which while big, isn't something like a solid sliding wing or completely new materials).

I am not really looking for a softer pad, actually most of my post is saying many of the stock pads are too soft for my liking.

It's not just the strapping.  The entire foam core is far beyond what others are using.  The way it moves and performs, while holding it's shape is incredibly innovative.  Bauer and Warrior both took the solid but soft foam core concept and applied it to their pads.  They are also using a lot of new materials to help with durability and wear, as well as performance.  The binding is on the sliding surface, but it is recessed more than others.

Now I'm confused, because quite literally every pad you listed are what are considered "soft" pads, including your Kohos.  If you don't want soft pads, then you 100% don't want R/GTs, Vaughns, or E-Flexs.  In your post you said that after wearing your kohos you didn't mind a soft pad, then proceeded to list all soft pads.  So I don't really know what you are looking for, and I don't really think you do either.  I'm not trying to be a dick.  But I think you're confused as to what each pad offers and how it relates to what you are looking for.  Or maybe you're just explaining it wrong.  I think it's coming down to the horrible descriptions of "hybrid" vs "butterfly" to apply to "soft" vs "stiff".  If you want a pad to play "less boxy" than your G2s, you are going to need a pad with torsional flex.  That's how they round out the shape but still allow the pad to rotate and seal to the ice.  But that also means you want a "soft" pad, as that is what soft means - it has torsional flex.  No one, even Vaughn, makes a soft, stuffed pad anymore.  Now the difference between soft and stiff is how much torsional flex the pads have.  So if you want a "more traditional" style pad, then you want a soft pad.  With all of that siad, It sounds to me like you are looking what you would describe as a hybrid style pad, and I would call a "soft" pad.  And not just that, you want a hybrid/soft pad with stiffer breaks.

The 1X is going to be very similar to your G2.  It will be a butterfly style, solid core pad, with softer breaks and slightly more torsional flex than the 1S.  It will not be anything close to a traditional, less boxy pad.  So if that's what you want, then take it off your list.  The R/GT will be warrior's "modern" hybrid pad.  Solid core, but more modern shape, and complete torsional flex.  However, I don't know that it will be stiffer above the knee than your G2.  My G3's are only a single break, and the thigh is significantly stiffer than my friend's G2s.  The whole R/GT pad will be softer, so it may be softer above the knee also. If nothing else, it'll only be as stiff as the G3.   So if you need a stiffer thigh to keep stuff attempts out, then it may not work for you.  Vaughns are Vaughns.  Eflexs are EFlexs.  Both are soft, true hybrid pads, not what you are looking for.  Gnetik3s may be closest to what you want.  They are also a modern hybrid pad, like the R/GT.  With a lot of torsional flex, but also stiff above the knee.  I think stock Gn3tiks are 2 (out of 5 now) top break.  A 2 flex in Brian's is very stiff, even though it does have an internal break.  The 2 flex above the knee in my Gnetik2s was far stiffer than my G3s, even though both are single, no external break pads.  Those two are going to be your best bet.  I think that the others you mention will have far more trade-offs.

[Hills 712]

15 minutes ago, psulion22 said:

It's not just the strapping.  The entire foam core is far beyond what others are using.  The way it moves and performs, while holding it's shape is incredibly innovative.  Bauer and Warrior both took the solid but soft foam core concept and applied it to their pads.  They are also using a lot of new materials to help with durability and wear, as well as performance.  The binding is on the sliding surface, but it is recessed more than others.

1) Now I'm confused, because quite literally every pad you listed are what are considered "soft" pads, including your Kohos.  If you don't want soft pads, then you 100% don't want R/GTs, Vaughns, or E-Flexs.  In your post you said that after wearing your kohos you didn't mind a soft pad, then proceeded to list all soft pads.  So I don't really know what you are looking for, and I don't really think you do either.  I'm not trying to be a dick.  But I think you're confused as to what each pad offers and how it relates to what you are looking for.  Or maybe you're just explaining it wrong.  I think it's coming down to the horrible descriptions of "hybrid" vs "butterfly" to apply to "soft" vs "stiff".  

2) If you want a pad to play "less boxy" than your G2s, you are going to need a pad with torsional flex.  That's how they round out the shape but still allow the pad to rotate and seal to the ice.  But that also means you want a "soft" pad, as that is what soft means - it has torsional flex.  No one, even Vaughn, makes a soft, stuffed pad anymore.  Now the difference between soft and stiff is how much torsional flex the pads have.  So if you want a "more traditional" style pad, then you want a soft pad.  With all of that siad, It sounds to me like you are looking what you would describe as a hybrid style pad, and I would call a "soft" pad.  And not just that, you want a hybrid/soft pad with stiffer breaks.

3) The 1X is going to be very similar to your G2.  It will be a butterfly style, solid core pad, with softer breaks and slightly more torsional flex than the 1S.  It will not be anything close to a traditional, less boxy pad.  So if that's what you want, then take it off your list.  

4) The R/GT will be warrior's "modern" hybrid pad.  Solid core, but more modern shape, and complete torsional flex.  However, I don't know that it will be stiffer above the knee than your G2.  My G3's are only a single break, and the thigh is significantly stiffer than my friend's G2s.  The whole R/GT pad will be softer, so it may be softer above the knee also. If nothing else, it'll only be as stiff as the G3.   So if you need a stiffer thigh to keep stuff attempts out, then it may not work for you.  

5) Vaughns are Vaughns.  Eflexs are EFlexs.  Both are soft, true hybrid pads, not what you are looking for.  

6) Gnetik3s may be closest to what you want.  They are also a modern hybrid pad, like the R/GT.  With a lot of torsional flex, but also stiff above the knee.  I think stock Gn3tiks are 2 (out of 5 now) top break.  A 2 flex in Brian's is very stiff, even though it does have an internal break.  The 2 flex above the knee in my Gnetik2s was far stiffer than my G3s, even though both are single, no external break pads.  Those two are going to be your best bet.  I think that the others you mention will have far more trade-offs.

1) The Koho's are a mix between the Eflex and the Premier, they had softer rebounds and an external and internal break below the knee but came pre-curved in the thigh with no internal break. The boot was ridiculously stiff. They aren't a soft pad compared to stock Eflex, Velocity, or Ritual G3s and any pad is softer than my G2s of which the entire post is in reference to. None of the pads I listed are "soft" pads but the Eflex, of which I state I wouldn't order them unless I could get them stiffer than their stock counterparts. The Vaughn  pads are the Ventus line which play much stiffer than the Velocity series.

2) The 1S pads are a "stiff" style of pad that plays less boxy than my G2s do, they felt like a more traditional setup on the ice than my G2s do, it has nothing to do with torsional flex rather how the leg sits in the leg channel and moves about the pad.

3) The 1S already played less boxy than my G2s did so I really don't see how the 1X would be considerably worse.

4) All retail Ritual G2s and G3s have the profile lock system, which means the top break of the pad has to be flexible enough for the velcro to hold it in place. Therefore that top break is too soft for my liking, and the non-existent top break of the Ritual GT (as show in the gif of it being flexed) show that it is stiffer than the G3s and more to what I want in a pad. My G2s have no top break at all and a solid piece of either extremely dense foam or plastic that stops it from bending.

5) The Ventus SLR is absolutely not a soft hybrid style of pad... The Eflex was originally at the bottom of my list because I listed it as too soft unless I could get it custom and be significantly stiffer.

6) I have seen Gn3tiks in person and they are no where near stiff enough stock for me to look at them, while I could get them custom to be stiffer the Subzero pad would probably simply fit me more. The binding is not recessed enough for it to not matter on the Brian's pad.

 

[psulion22 402]

I missed the part of the Ventus.  I thought you said V7 Pro Carbon for some reason.

I have G3's.  The profile lock is useless.  It doesn't do anything because the thigh is too stiff.  They are much stiffer in the thigh than the G2s were.  My friend's G2s are floppy in the thigh.  My g3s it doesn't move.  It's solid.

And again, I don't understand what you are looking for.  You don't want soft or torsional flex, but you want R/GTs which will have the most torsional flex of all the pads you mention, except maybe the Eflexs.  Given that the Eflexs are at the bottom of your list, and Gnetik3s are unuseable, then the R/GTs should be out as well.  They R/GT and Gnetik3 are going to be nearly identical pads.

You use the term boxy, but then say that 1S pads, which are about as square as any pad out there, aren't as boxy as your G2s.  The freedom in the leg channel in the 1S pads certainly lends to a more fluid feel, but they are not anything close to more traditional pads.  The G3 moves better and has more freedom than the G2s as well.  But when it comes down to it, you either have box style, square pads that are stiff and flat across the sliding surface.  Or you have traditional pads that are not flat across the sliding surface, and have to have torsional flex to get them to seal the ice.  1s, 1X, Ritual G2/G3, Ventus, and Subzero are all those box shaped, stiff pads.  Though they may feel or play differently.  The R/GT, Eflex, Gnetik, and Koho are traditional shaped pads that require torsional flex to get most of the pads down.  Those types of pads often leave a V shape where they meet in the butterfly, or lift the thigh slightly off the ice.

The reality is you aren't looking for what you say you are.  You don't want a traditional style pad at all.  You want a box style, butterfly, solid core pad with soft breaks below the knee and in the boot.  I get you don't like your G2s, and may not like the G3s either, but they are exactly the kind of pad  you are looking for.  I don't think the G3s felt like the G2s at all (with limited experience in the G2s).  G3s are effortless and unrestrictive. Sure, they just may not suit you, but that's what they are built as.  Other than them, the 1X pads may be very good for you.  They will be the 1S with soft breaks and a little more give.  And you are right, a Subzero with soft breaks may work as well.

I'm like you, my ideal pad is a solid pad to maximize seal and sliding, and give stronger rebounds, but soft boot and single break to allow for more flex and movement.  Gnetiks were too soft.  I wanted more flex in the knee/boot from both the Sub2 and 1S.   I love my G3s, but I am very, very interested in the 1X.  My guess is the 1X will be the best for you as well, if you don't like the G3s.  You already like the 1S, the 1X is just going to give you more things you find to be positive, I think.

[Hills 712]

Being able to see the Price spec Eflex 3s in person (especially next to the Eflex 2s) really pushed the Eflex 3 to the top of the list if I could mimic the Price Spec pads in my sizing. Since the Eflex 3 customizer and thus order sheet has been released it seems that it will be possible to get an Eflex 3 with the specs I want. The Price Spec pads have a stiffer thigh rise than the standard Eflex 2 pads with no external and internal breaks while having an extrenal and internal break below the knee. With the new Speed Skin material (would be interesting to try it out and see if there is a difference) and great customization catalogue showing all the options CCM offers the Eflex 3 might be a decent choice. It doesn't hurt that I really like the graphic options.

Of course I will wait until I can see the Ritual GT in person, and if I get to test out the SLR and fall in love with them they would obviously become one of the front runners. But since I liked the feeling of the Price Spec Eflex 3s and the Ritual GTs tick the right boxes they are both at the top. I probably wouldn't end up buying the matching gloves to a set, as the Bauer Reactor 9000 blocker is still the best one I have used to date and I would buy the 1X blocker before any other from the sets listed here since it is extremely similar.

The catalogue itself.

http://microsites.ccmhockey.com/microsites/eflex/core/imgs/17CCM_GoalieCustomizer_revWeb.pdf

The designs, I am leaning towards option 2: