DIY foot adjustments in skate

[sticktime 12]

Like a lot of you guys on MSH I've struggled with foot issues, and my right foot is my trouble spot.   

I basically have low arches (very low) or essentially flat feet.   And my right foot is duck footed in that it points out kinda.   So the combo has given me a lot of fits in regard to power skating.

To explain it more simply, it always feels as though my foot is sort of twisting in the boot, heel twisting in and front of the foot sort of twisting outwards.    Then it feels like the blade runs from the inner side of my heel through my big toe.

I've been to a foot and ankle specialist and he said that there are no alignment issues, that my heel and Achilles line up with my calf, and all I needed was some arch support.   This was two years ago.    So from that point I tried the CCM Currexsole's in high to low, the superfeet rainbow if colors, Reidell R-Fit customizable footbed kit, heel wedges, and lifts.

Nothing ever worked to make my foot feel normal.   Arch supports of any kind just made it feel as though there was more pronation.   The wedges kinda felt ok but there was always a resulting imbalance, which I'm assuming was because that's not what I needed and it just put my foot in a further awkward position.

The left foot, I should mention, never gave me an issue, I could use the useless paper thin stock insole or one with arch support and either worked.   It's worth mentioning that the stock insole let me feel like I was right on top of the blade and had complete control, however with an arch support your arch doesn't collapse and you feel more powerful pushing.

So basically after about two years of experimenting what I found was that a heel lift inside the boot and a metatarsal pad that stretches from side to side is the only thing that felt normal.  The heel lift is the one that comes in the Reidell R-fit pack, and I have others, they're all about 4-6 millimeters thick and slope downward.    Metatarsal pad is pretty thick.    

So I'm curious as to what others have done to cure their foot ailments that ready made corrective insoles never could.

 

[Vet88 674]

I pronate also and have spent many years dealing with it plus helping others with this problem. I prefer the blade alignment approach (which Grafs are good for) along with a good supporting insole and then orthotics and or shims. 

I've also seen a number of so called foot specialist, the only honest ones out of the lot I saw were the ones who said they didn't have the experience to deal with this. Your foot getting analysed whilst walking or standing on a flat surface and your foot inside a ice hockey boot are 2 very different things. Have a read of this http://www.aapsm.org/pdf/humble-skatinga.pdf and you may want to try and see a specialist who is part of the aapsm (sadly none where I am).

How did I fix it? It's not a fix but a continual work in progress, here is my current process. A while ago I went back to my G5 Ultras which I have moved the blade holder inwards by 1mm on both skates. I then added superfeet yellow and built up the arch using soft gel pads cut to the arch shape and built them up until it hurt to skate in them and then backed off until there was no pain. Then I undid the top eyelet, spent 4 weeks skating, undid the 2nd eyelet, spent another 4 weeks skating, etc etc until finally I could skate with just 4 eyelets done up. I did skate in the G5's with no laces but the skates don't fit well enough to do it for a long time, banging the big toe against the toe box every time you cross over isn't a good solution. Then I changed to apx2's and jetspeeds and kept training the same way (jetspeeds were a much better fit for my feet and therefore better suited for skating with no laces). Skating this way activates the stability muscles in your ankles and shows up any technical issues you have with your skating, you very quickly figure out where the center of gravity is over the blade, there is no hiding from it with no support from the sides of the boot. And then you keep training and training until muscle memory starts to take over and then you keep on training until the day you finally stop skating.

How do I know this works? Because of the pronation I have I used to have to pad up various bits of my feet, inside of big toe, outside of little toe, inside ankle. Once I started skating with laces removed this all disappeared, now I don't have to pad up at all, ie this means my foot is sitting balanced on top of the blade with no rolling of the foot inside the boot. The improvement in the technical aspect of my skating was significant and with that came a definite performance gain.

And as bonus, volume is now never a worry regardless of what boot I'm in. I just wish I had known this many years earlier, but everyone I coach has seen the changes in my skating and how anyone can improve from this regardless of age or how long they have been skating. Now many of them are trying the same thing and seeing them improve their skating makes the hard work I put in all the more worthwhile.

[krisdrum 233]

Thanks both for sharing your war stories.  Thanks to another recent thread, I've realized I also have pronation and foot issues that have been effecting my skating.  I've been searching for the "perfect boot" for 3+ years.  Not realizing a lot of what had me searching had little to do with the boot and much more to do with my feet.  And frankly I am kicking myself with all the trial and error and wasted time and money, as I should have realized earlier. 

Prior to getting into skating, I was an avid cyclist (the time away from family and other priorities have made this a nearly impossible hobby to maintain).  As part of that, I had an extensive bike fit performed about 10 years ago.  Full body and body to bike assessment.  It dawned on me last night I still had that information.  Pulled it out and sure enough, the fitter identified varus orientation in both my feet, to varying degrees and differences in my arch height seated and weighted.  I used to use a shim under the heel of my bike shoe insoles AND shims on my cleats (connection between shoe and pedal), plus configurable insoles to adjust for my lower body misalignment (you want to reduce any sheering forces as much as possible on a bike to avoid repetitive use injuries and such).

So ALL of this is helpful and making lightbulbs go off in my head, that I need to get this stuff addressed or at least improved so I can get back to focusing on improving my skating. 

I've tried several "home remedies" over the years including superfeet, the same heel shims I used on the bike, different lacing patterns, etc.  I'm at the point where I need some additional help.  I'm going to have a candid heart-to-heart with my skate fitter (hopefully this week) and see what he thinks.  Outside of a high end shop I used to go to in NYC, this guy is one of the best I've seen.  I think my current skates are the best overall fit I've managed for my foot shape, so it is a matter of "what's next?".  Based on that conversation I may explore podiatric assessment and interventions.  We'll see where this takes me.  As I was discussing with the wife last night, it is at the point where it might just be easier to give up and move on to another sport.  I am really hoping that is not the case, but the thought has crossed my mind.  Hopefully there is a better solution. 

[sticktime 12]

Pronation is such a wide-ranging thing.   Mild to moderate to pretty bad.    Anything that pushed my arches up, be it 3 different sizes of superfeet yellow so I could hit the arch further back or forward, or the CCM's or any other arch support product, they all simply felt like they just twisted my foot and made it worse.   

 

Raisig in the heel strangely is the only thing that works.  And also a metatarsal pad stretching from side to side, that's so the front of the foot doesn't collapse and is slightly raised as well.   No arch support in between.   

 

As as far as moving the holder medically/laterally I don't have Graf's and the there's no room to do it on my skates.    And the question I have with that is do you then use Superfeet or some other corrective insole in conjunction with moving the holders?   Seems like if you did it would maybe help them do what their intended purpose is?

[krisdrum 233]

Yeah, there is a lot of variety in pronation for sure.  Plenty of people need stuff in their street shoes, etc.  I've dabbled in that a bit, but usually more to compensate for poor fit, not a huge biomechanical issue.  I have small feet compared to the average male and am right on the cusp of the youth/adult size ranges usually.  I wear a size 5 skate.  I do wear my shoes out in the typical lateral heel/medial toe pattern though. 

There is actually some great information on all this stuff related to cycling shoes on Steve Hogg's website.  https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/index/

Obviously take it with a grain of salt as it is specific to the needs of a cyclist, but I found much of it helpful when I was in that sport and frankly didn't even occur to me to potentially apply some of the same principles to an ice skate, but we are really talking about a lot of the same ideas and methods (wedges, shims, arch support). 

If memory serves from my time in outdoor retail, Superfeet are really designed to stabilize the heel.  Arch support is a secondary concern for them and not the real focus of the product. 

I'm excited, I'll be going to my LHS that has an excellent fitter tonight to talk about adjustments/options to adjust what I am feeling.  Hope to report back with an update tomorrow on next steps.  I've also received a recommendation for a podiatrist from the head trainer of a local NHL team, so I am hoping between those 2 sources I can find some remedies. 

[darkhors 88]

Ok, so there's this company called Fastech near Detroit that deals with top performing athlete's and does performance insoles for pretty much all sporting and non-sporting activity. They have people all over the country that can make these insoles to correct issues and also make sure that your foot is working in the optimal fashion. This is their site: http://www.fastechlabs.net/ and they can tell you who to contact in your area. They also have a video of how they mold the insole to your foot. 

It seems to me that you need the combination of arch lift AND heel lift to fully support your foot inside the boot. This should give you full stabilization and maximum performance from the boot currently. As for the pronation, you may still need to look into having your runner moved (if possible), but I bet getting a fully custom set of these will help tremendously. They aren't cheap, but they aren't super expensive either. I paid around $160 for mine, but I'm 30 minutes from their headquarters. I know some people have paid slightly more depending on what they had to do. Either way it's well worth it.

When I was there talking with the owner, he explained how the insole keeps your feet in line throughout the entire motion. Also, it does take up a little more volume in the skate than normal insoles (and just slightly more than superfeet) because it supports the entire foot, not just the heel like superfeet. I've been using these for a while now and I can't believe the difference it makes for me. I have zero foot pain and I feel very connected to my skates. I also use Powerfeet in the toecaps to take away the negative spacing there, so I get a full "wrap" type feeling in my skates.

Hope this helps and hopefully you won't have to give up the sport.

[krisdrum 233]

Darkhors - thanks.  Not sure if this was pointed at me or the OP or both, but good information.  I'll have to see who they might have in the NJ/NY area who uses their system.

I am confident I won't have to walk away from skating, as I really don't think my issues are insurmountable, they just need the attention of some experienced folks, instead of my DIY trial and error approach.   

[darkhors 88]

@krisdrum, it was for both. The insoles are really great and are much superior to superfeet because they fit and support the entire foot. I lived with some forefoot pain in my skates for years and my skates are the correct fit for my foot, but until I got the insoles I didn't really remember how my skate should feel like when I'm on the ice. It really is night and day. Good luck!!

[Vet88 674]

8 hours ago, sticktime said:

As as far as moving the holder medically/laterally I don't have Graf's and the there's no room to do it on my skates.    And the question I have with that is do you then use Superfeet or some other corrective insole in conjunction with moving the holders?   Seems like if you did it would maybe help them do what their intended purpose is?

Ideally you have both done. As well as aligning the holder, often a twist or reshape of the foot in the boot is also needed to achieve an optimal balance. But many people choose not to do the custom insole as it can be expensive.

[krisdrum 233]

Quick update.  My fitter shimmed both skates, 1 slightly more than the other and re-aligned 1 of my holders slightly.  He only shimmed the heel posts.  Based on "the walk" in the shop, it feels better, more solid, upright and grounded.  Little to no wobble at the ankles when walking or standing single or both feet.  It is a first step, time to go skate and report back.  He also gave me the name of a local podiatrist who also skates and plays hockey that he sends a lot of customers to.  So I can explore that as well, even just for a consult.  Noticed both boots, but 1 in particular was twisted and deformed from me skating on them out of balance.  Hope to hit the ice tomorrow or Saturday for some testing.  

[krisdrum 233]

Update #2: Friday - Skated 45 minutes at open skate.  Balance was much better, but still felt my feet wanting to go inside edge when gliding, but it was much easier to feel it and correct it.  Called my fitter, he said to come back in.  We chatted about what I was feeling and he adjusted the amount of shimming on the holders.  Walk test felt a bit more upright than previous night after the adjustment.  Hope to get to open skate again this weekend to re-test. 

Sunday - Another 45 min. session.  Right skate is great.  Balanced, easy access to both edges, felt really nice.  Left skate better again, but still not the same balance level as the right.  Will call him and probably get him to bump the left up just a bit and re-test.  Progress is progress.  

[GreatestAmericanBeardo 258]

On 3/9/2017 at 7:28 PM, krisdrum said:

Quick update.  My fitter shimmed both skates, 1 slightly more than the other and re-aligned 1 of my holders slightly.  He only shimmed the heel posts.  Based on "the walk" in the shop, it feels better, more solid, upright and grounded.  Little to no wobble at the ankles when walking or standing single or both feet.  It is a first step, time to go skate and report back.  He also gave me the name of a local podiatrist who also skates and plays hockey that he sends a lot of customers to.  So I can explore that as well, even just for a consult.  Noticed both boots, but 1 in particular was twisted and deformed from me skating on them out of balance.  Hope to hit the ice tomorrow or Saturday for some testing.  

curious, can you PM me that doc's name?  I need to do something with my damn bunions