Home Sharpening Tips and Techniques

[Playmakersedge 58]

27 minutes ago, Playmakersedge said:

Ok so so your wissota machines holder is the style that has a 45ºangles and one knob on the end?    Seriously try a coin to look at edge height.   . Dressing the wheel:  The machine has a collar and a set screw that secures the diamond to the yoke?   I think the dresser has marks on it . That should give you your radius/ hallow.       Try pledge.   Felt: with being fussy about The table being clean it will last a long time. Use visual inspection to tell.  

Your skate holder also has a tee lock to lock the adjustment. If yes I'm not a fan of that holder.  

My first sharpener I made when I was a kid. What started me making it was I got one of those skate holders free from the rink . They are very sensitive to how hard a life the have had . It wasn't equal on each end .  I used a radial arm saw power head and made my radius arm off the motor mount bracket/guard .  We had a heavy steel adjustable table.  I used a old cast iron table saw table for slide surface. Entire head unit I made bolt threw both tables threads in the lower table  . My radius arm was one arm . I had access to short diamond dressers so I made my rig accept them with a set screw  .    To take the defect out of the holder after everything was together  I used the bottom of the grinding wheel to take all the imperfections on the surface of the bottom land on the holder.     Worked really well for what it was .  Thing was crazy heavy.  The table everything was connected to had a crank that raise or lower the table four casters and three brakes. 

I was 13 and had no idea how to do the math to figure out the radius  marks so I used  sockets to use as a template for the arch and made marks on my diamond holder for 1/2",5/8",3/4",1"   I still don't know the math hehehe 

I use a 80 grit wheel with ceramic mix.  The ceramic last a lot longer and it self cleans .  I can't remember what size wheel center your machine uses ? The numbers and letters on a wheel indicate hardness and grit and construction ,  maximum speed.  Norton has a very good chart and expaination of this . 

 

 

[Playmakersedge 58]

On 11/18/2017 at 5:52 PM, purepearl32 said:

Hello everyone,

I'm curious as to what I'll be looking for when this wheel needs to be replaced? Here are a couple shots when the guard is off and one where the guard is flush with the machine.

 

That is a blade master machine?  I don't have there recommended discard for there wheel in memory.  

My machine discard is when there is 10mm of the wheel from the edge of the guard  .   Google your machine I bet you can download the entire manual.  Heads up on the radius device slides on that  keep them clean  . 

[Playmakersedge 58]

On 6/6/2017 at 3:16 PM, Axxion89 said:

Very interested in this thread as well. I have a blademaster I bought locally & feel I have it pretty well dialed in but I would too like to know how more experienced sharpeners make it work (I can't get a perfect mirror finish unless I use cutting fluid for example)

To answer the glide question though, I bought a 3M Dry Lube with Teflon & coated the whole surface with it. After a day, its perfectly smooth & even with the well worn felt pads on my holders its glides perfectly. I know Blademaster & others make specific sprays but I can't imagine they are any different than a solvent based silicone or teflon spray

The mirror finish:  a fresh dressed wheel for the final pass . The final pass touch the skate to the wheel as delicate as possible, and move over the wheel slow and steady. In the direction of wheel rotation.  You will hear a consistent sounds all threw the pass . Another tip : I suggest getting cheap cotton work gloves  ; when I used machines with a table I would hold the skate holder with my finger and slide the rest of my hands on the table . The cotton slides smoothly and just using your fingers give you that light touch . 

[Playmakersedge 58]

On 6/20/2017 at 3:35 PM, Axxion89 said:

I would get either the Blademaster or Blackstone holder. They don't come up used at all so you will need to pay full price if you want one. I'm sure the Wisotta one would work but others on here have said the other 2 are much better quality. Did you save any money not getting the basic holder, I just got an old version of that & it works fine for me. The dial ones would be much better but the lever ones work fine

Just a quick two cents:  every brand skate sharpeners  wheel isn't at the same height.  Double check this before investing in a holder .  In my mind I am seeing the blade master wheel height higher then other brands .        I wish I could show everyone the sharpener I use and sell . There is no table drag,everything moves on sealed bearings  . It's 100% resistance free to operate and you can get a killer set up for $1700 with tools, company support, videos.  By the time you get every thing you need for these used machines you will spend very close to that and in some cases more  . If you want the travel case ,blade checker, honing stone and a holder that can also do figure skates  $2400 

Most of the questions would be answered with product support.  There are two people in North America doing that ,my self and the North American distributor.  

If anyone has any questions about getting a sharpener ,give me a ring  : Shane 518-779-8362  

[purepearl32 6]

1 hour ago, Playmakersedge said:

That is a blade master machine?  I don't have there recommended discard for there wheel in memory.  

My machine discard is when there is 10mm of the wheel from the edge of the guard  .   Google your machine I bet you can download the entire manual.  Heads up on the radius device slides on that  keep them clean  . 

Yes, Blademaster SPB850. Thank you for the heads up. I'll keep them clean!

[purepearl32 6]

22 hours ago, Playmakersedge said:

That is a blade master machine?  I don't have there recommended discard for there wheel in memory.  

My machine discard is when there is 10mm of the wheel from the edge of the guard  .   Google your machine I bet you can download the entire manual.  Heads up on the radius device slides on that  keep them clean  . 

Any idea where I could get the SPB850 manual, short of contacting the manufacture?

[Playmakersedge 58]

59 minutes ago, purepearl32 said:

Any idea where I could get the SPB850 manual, short of contacting the manufacture?

I bet you can download one . 

[x-track 8]

On 12.11.2017 at 10:10 PM, Vet88 said:

Sorry but I can't help there. I use incredible sharpeners and we source stones from Germany, wouldn't use anything else. Even then you get subtle variations between the stones. lol, I can't feel it but the the guy I work with can - touch, feel and sound of the stone on the blade. If it isn't right he will redress the stone then change it out if he isn't happy.

hi .....which sources do you mean ?...... i should be in the vicinity and could save shipping cost ordering overseas!!  thx

[Playmakersedge 58]

1 hour ago, x-track said:

hi .....which sources do you mean ?...... i should be in the vicinity and could save shipping cost ordering overseas!!  thx

That incredible little sharpener looks like a great machine    . Guy I played in a men's league with used one to sharpen for the nogano Olympics.   

[x-track 8]

...i meant the stones/wheels  !!??

[x-track 8]

i use a x-02 FBV , fyi

[Craig 1]

Have a portable blade master with the basic holder(2 levers). I do the witnesses marks and get them centered but my edges are not level. If I level the blade my witnesses marks are way off.

also when I clamp the skate in the holder it looks like it's not level which I think is the problem but not sure. I've clamped it in at snug plus 1/4 turn back, just barley touching and snug with the same results.

 

[mickz 107]

8 hours ago, Craig said:

Have a portable blade master with the basic holder(2 levers). I do the witnesses marks and get them centered but my edges are not level. If I level the blade my witnesses marks are way off.

also when I clamp the skate in the holder it looks like it's not level which I think is the problem but not sure. I've clamped it in at snug plus 1/4 turn back, just barley touching and snug with the same results.

 

Are you making witness marks on a blade that has just been cross grinded or does it already have a hollow?  Do you also have a pro square to check level?

Is the blade square when you clamp the skate into the holder?

[Craig 1]

1 hour ago, mickz said:

Are you making witness marks on a blade that has just been cross grinded or does it already have a hollow?  Do you also have a pro square to check level?

Is the blade square when you clamp the skate into the holder?

Already has a hollow. Square is on order .

ill get some pics after kids games today of skate in holder 

[Playmakersedge 58]

7 hours ago, mickz said:

Are you making witness marks on a blade that has just been cross grinded or does it already have a hollow?  Do you also have a pro square to check level?

Is the blade square when you clamp the skate into the holder?

mickz he is setting up wrong . "Leveling the blade " "then making witness marks "  When you say level the blade (?) And your witness marks are off (?) 

This is the part that sounds wonky to me . Your witness marks are what you should be using to level/ center the blade !  .   IF you are leveling the skate clamp with a level (?) No this wrong !!!!!  Use your witness marks to center The skate on The wheel .  The skate has to be centered in the wheel  . In other words on the same plane as the table and the wheel  .  Your sharpener was assembled/ built with the wheel parallel to the sharpener table; not the ground  . The machine is designed to work in a locker room on a bench or even a trash can up side down  (not a perfect surface by any means)  . But the sharpener table and the wheel have to be perfectly parallel. Then your skate has to be CENTERED on the wheel .    Throw the term level away .     

my long drawn out process I wrote last night is designed to (1)set up (2 )  make apparent anything that is bent .  Center the blade in the wheel. That's what those adjustments do on the holder.  Center it and you are good to go . 

[mickz 107]

6 hours ago, Craig said:

Already has a hollow. Square is on order .

ill get some pics after kids games today of skate in holder 

Witness marks won't work with a hollow in it already.  Chances are your edges are not level so the witness marks are giving you a faulty reading.  ex. Let's say you clamp a skate in and the top edge is higher.  The top edge will contact the wheel first but when you look at the positioning of the witness marks you are given the false impression that the holder is too low.  so what do you do?  You raise it to compensate but you're actually just compounding the problem even more.

[Craig 1]

10 minutes ago, mickz said:

Witness marks won't work with a hollow in it already.  Chances are your edges are not level so the witness marks are giving you a faulty reading.  ex. Let's say you clamp a skate in and the top edge is higher.  The top edge will contact the wheel first but when you look at the positioning of the witness marks you are given the false impression that the holder is too low.  so what do you do?  You raise it to compensate but you're actually just compounding the problem even more.

Ok so just put the blade square on and go when it's level?

[Playmakersedge 58]

It's about center.  The difference between the thickness of brands blades is very close.  Once you are set up dead nuts you are making small changes between different skates. Up or down.   For a blade to be so off that it would hit that off from what your set up is it would be virtually impossible to skate on .And it's obvious when it' that screwed up. And if it is the skates gotta be cross ground unless you want to waste your finish wheel and build up crazy heat in the blade.  

The witness marks won't work rhetoric stems from companies using table style sharpeners selling you a blade equalization gauge that centers the blade to the wheel . For the price of 2/3 of the portable sharpener .     I took a look at the sharpening gurus on you tube. And I watched one guy that made 32 passes.  I watched another guy through so much glitter in the air making what he was doing look like rocket science, rubbing with this, rubbing with that ,turn three times right ,clap your hands, the left clap your hands, rub it again, then put the blade guard on .   Crazy  

[mickz 107]

11 hours ago, Craig said:

Ok so just put the blade square on and go when it's level?

Measure the edges prior to sharpening to see if they are even.  When you're making the first couple of passes, pay attention to the sparks on the wheel.  Is it a thin line of sparks?  Or is it about the same width as the blade?  If the edges are not level to start, you should see a thin line on the side that is taller.  Do a couple of passes until you are getting sparks the same width as the blade.  Take it out of the jig, wipe off the dust and measure it again.  Did the levelness change?  Adjust the holder as needed. 

The first pair of skates might take you a little bit longer to calibrate especially since you have the model with the cam levers.  There's more guessing and checking involved as to how far to adjust.  The models with the dial are made to work with the pro square.

[mickz 107]

6 hours ago, Playmakersedge said:

It's about center.  The difference between the thickness of brands blades is very close.  Once you are set up dead nuts you are making small changes between different skates. Up or down.   For a blade to be so off that it would hit that off from what your set up is it would be virtually impossible to skate on .And it's obvious when it' that screwed up. And if it is the skates gotta be cross ground unless you want to waste your finish wheel and build up crazy heat in the blade.  

The witness marks won't work rhetoric stems from companies using table style sharpeners selling you a blade equalization gauge that centers the blade to the wheel . For the price of 2/3 of the portable sharpener .     I took a look at the sharpening gurus on you tube. And I watched one guy that made 32 passes.  I watched another guy through so much glitter in the air making what he was doing look like rocket science, rubbing with this, rubbing with that ,turn three times right ,clap your hands, the left clap your hands, rub it again, then put the blade guard on .   Crazy  

Majority of skate sharpening videos on Youtube are garbage. 

[Playmakersedge 58]

35 minutes ago, mickz said:

Majority of skate sharpening videos on Youtube are garbage. 

Yes there awful self indulgent .  The reason I get so heated about sharpening is because there are a bunch of folks acting like hockey skates never have been sharpened perfectly until now .. And its because of the wheel to skate equalization gauge, the edge level gauge  etc.    And I sell skate sharpeners,and edge checkers, and rivet and eyelet machines.  ,profile machines, combination machines  .. There is no table, so the feel across the wheel is effortless.   It all functions from an arm . Un believable smooth  . I have The SSM2  , we came out with another style machine  the has a table that moves on linear bearings and the skate holder moves front to back on linear bearings.  I don't have one yet . The North American distributor has some comeing in . I love the products  . Very affordable  

[Playmakersedge 58]

59 minutes ago, mickz said:

Measure the edges prior to sharpening to see if they are even.  When you're making the first couple of passes, pay attention to the sparks on the wheel.  Is it a thin line of sparks?  Or is it about the same width as the blade?  If the edges are not level to start, you should see a thin line on the side that is taller.  Do a couple of passes until you are getting sparks the same width as the blade.  Take it out of the jig, wipe off the dust and measure it again.  Did the levelness change?  Adjust the holder as needed. 

The first pair of skates might take you a little bit longer to calibrate especially since you have the model with the cam levers.  There's more guessing and checking involved as to how far to adjust.  The models with the dial are made to work with the pro square.

Agreed. But fix your holder up first.  Mickz did you see the pics of the holder. That one Jack bolt has to be adjusted.  The face of the holder looks canted back top toward the operator and bottom toward the wheel.  Gotta check that with a square.  I hope it' just an illusion of camera angle  . 

[Playmakersedge 58]

On 6/8/2017 at 12:43 AM, purepearl32 said:

Me three. I'd also like to hear from experienced sharpeners!

Folks I am happy to do anything I can to help you.   Let me start out by saying you are going to hear things that are presented as gospel that aren't.  You are going to hear things that are absolute,tried and true etc .some of this is just different method or method that wa inspired  by the simple but effective ways ....  I am going to start out by telling you about the sharpener I chose and why.   The machine I sharpen with is the SSM2 They are designed and built in Sweden ,and it functions like velvet. IT is extremely high tech, but yet simple they took a complex proces of centering The skate on The wheel and condensed it down to a steel roller adjusted by a nob ,they took out all The drag that sliding a holder on The table creates . I am able to sharpen a skate using only two fingers . And all you feel is the blade going over the wheel, and any imperfections are felt threw tbe finggers  . This  reduces heat and the skates hold an edge longer and less blades snap in a game The machine is completely portable, with its case.  What got me hooked was the skate fixture arms ,set with sealed ball bears at every joint  .This arm moves effortlessly . Also the skate centering wheel that the side of the blade rides on . The wheel can be dressed round or flat ,not common for this price point.  The directions are clear and direct . This machine with the profiling kit can do incredible accurate profile cuts . The machine has been being produced for 20+ years  and has  been a main stay of Olympic teams in Europe.  It' good for home use,plus make a few bucks. It' good for the lhs ,prep schools ,high schools, colleges ,to pros ,and group of men' league players ,for me as a power skating coach, it' extremely useful.     The SSM2 with the top of the line skate holder   ,tools, vacuum manifold, travel case, and two wheels, edge checker, diamond honing stone.  This is the pro set up  for $2388.99.  The family package is $1480  machine, entry level skate holder, tools ,1 wheel factory installed.  The case is $175 . The machine is second to none. 

other good things to come is product leasing to own .If you do a simple dba , or llc you can lease all your skate servicing equipment and it is a write off 100% .If you buy it out right  the depreciation is all you can  write off on your taxes.  

I am speaking to different companies to give our customers the best terms possible.  Most of the companies work with folks in all credit situations..

 . In box me if you would like to get started.    Thanks all.