Just another question of Hollow

[hockeydad3 51]

Hi,

I´m a Skating beginner on Graf MCI 5035 T-Blade. You can find details in:

After my development from a long profile to a medium profile and from locked ankles to tying the ankles quite loose, today i had to change my blades because they had been too dull. The new ones are now feeling way too sharp and i was permanently just before catching an edge. Is this the point of time to change to a shallower hollow or should i just get used to the fresh blades?

Until now I´m skating on a 15mm hollow (1/2"=12,7mm, 5/8"=15,9mm and 3/4"=19,0mm) the next one is 18mm. My weight is 180 pounds, my height is 5"7, skate size 6.5 blade 256mm. My Boots seem to be very stiff and a little unforgivable.

Is it a further development to go as shallow as possible/comfortable?

[Leif 161]

Generally when my skates are freshly sharpened I do some sideways slides to take off the edge, and then they are beautiful to skate on. I weigh 160 pounds, assuming a US pound equals a UK one and have a 1/2” grind. I recently switched from 5/8”.  I would guess you would be fine on 5/8”. I recently had a similar problem, turns out the sharpener put on a much deeper hollow. Get yourself a depth gauge and check them. 

Incidentally, required hollow depends on body weight, ice hardness and skill level. Shallow is better for light people and novices though I know plenty of people who started out on deep hollows. 

[JSK81 400]

4 hours ago, Leif said:

Incidentally, required hollow depends on body weight, ice hardness and skill level. Shallow is better for light people and novices though I know plenty of people who started out on deep hollows. 

Beginners and less skilled skaters tend to skate on deeper hollows because it gives them more bite and friction and doesn’t feel as slippery. Shallower hollows take more skill to use your edges properly, especially if you’re lighter. The more you weigh, the more you dig into the ice.

Deeper hollow = more bite, easier to use your edges - more footwork required to maintain speed, more fatigue

Shallower hollow = less bite, harder to use your edges - easier to maintain speed, less fatigue

[Leif 161]

3 hours ago, JSK81 said:

Beginners and less skilled skaters tend to skate on deeper hollows because it gives them more bite and friction and doesn’t feel as slippery. Shallower hollows take more skill to use your edges properly, especially if you’re lighter. The more you weigh, the more you dig into the ice.

Deeper hollow = more bite, easier to use your edges - more footwork required to maintain speed, more fatigue

Shallower hollow = less bite, harder to use your edges - easier to maintain speed, less fatigue

Clearly we differ in opinion. Yes a deeper hollow gives more bite, but that can be a bad thing for a beginner as they cannot slide and it makes it harder to learn to hockey stop. In my opinion (and just that) a deeper hollow requires more skill. I moved from 5/8" to 1/2" as my skill level improved and I could use my edges better. However, I have read more than a few questions from beginners having trouble with hockey stops, and the advice is often to try a shallower hollow. I unwittingly tried a 3/8" or 7/16" and it left me unable to skate. The incorrect hollow was verified using a gauge by the sharpener.

Anyway, even if we do disagree, I do recommend the OP checks their hollow with a guage to rule out an incorrect sharpen. In my opinion (again, only that) 5/8" should be fine for the OP.

[StinkyPinky 11]

OP just keep skating on them. It might be that you have a little trouble when they are fresh, don't worry. Feel free to try another hollow, but don't expect a huge difference man. With T-Blade you could buy one of each.

I find that a lot of beginners focus way too much on gear (whether skating, skiing, snowboarding, golf, etc.). I'd guess the majority of the trouble you're having is "user error": mistakes in your technique, muscles underdeveloped, getting fatigued, etc. "Dialing in" the blades (hollow, round, and profile) and getting lighter and better fitting boots as a beginner is a distraction. When you get new skates and you're new to the sport your feet will hurt. You will fall. You will get frustrated.

I have foot pain time to time because of how I tie my skates or as a result of a small injury from a game. On those days I tie looser and maybe wear thicker socks. I got orthotic insoles and found pain in my knees and hips for maybe 10 days as my skeletal-muscular system adapted to the change. I got new Step blades and had a bit of discomfort and adaptation time. Again best is to rest your body and then keep going.

Rest, practice, improve, rinse & repeat. Hours on the ice or even the gym will help you leaps and bounds more than tweaking your gear. Once you have decent gear focus on your conditioning, strength, and technique.

[JSK81 400]

4 hours ago, Leif said:

Clearly we differ in opinion. Yes a deeper hollow gives more bite, but that can be a bad thing for a beginner as they cannot slide and it makes it harder to learn to hockey stop. In my opinion (and just that) a deeper hollow requires more skill. I moved from 5/8" to 1/2" as my skill level improved and I could use my edges better. However, I have read more than a few questions from beginners having trouble with hockey stops, and the advice is often to try a shallower hollow. I unwittingly tried a 3/8" or 7/16" and it left me unable to skate. The incorrect hollow was verified using a gauge by the sharpener.

I didn’t say beginners should use a deep hollow, I said they tend to use it as a crutch because it helps them control their edges better with lesser skill. Hockey stops are obviously harder to do with more friction.

Here the ”standard” ROH you get from shops is around 1”. I once asked for 5/8 (~16mm) and was asked 3 times if I was sure I really wanted something so extremely deep. Most pros here skate on shallow hollows too.

[mojo122 538]

Standard hollows tend to vary regionally.  The common standard around me is 1/2".  The majority of skaters have no idea what hollow they're on on or what it means to go sharper or shallower.

[Leif 161]

1 hour ago, JSK81 said:

I didn’t say beginners should use a deep hollow, I said they tend to use it as a crutch because it helps them control their edges better with lesser skill. Hockey stops are obviously harder to do with more friction.

Here the ”standard” ROH you get from shops is around 1”. I once asked for 5/8 (~16mm) and was asked 3 times if I was sure I really wanted something so extremely deep. Most pros here skate on shallow hollows too.

I’m sure that several local sharpeners use 1/2” as the standard. I’ve witnessed several people just ask for a sharpen with no specifics and an ex pro hockey player I know does the same. He seems to know nothing about RoH. But he is a first rate skater. That said, that may be specific to this region. 

1”? Wow. That is almost flat, the actual depth must be less than one thousandth of an inch. 

[hockeydad3 51]

I´m giving the 18mm ROH a Try. The weather has been bad this week. After two skatings on bad ice, today the ice was fine, maybe a bit harder than usual. I had enough bite in turns and too much bite for stops. And i love the Glide. Looks like my skating style has changed a lot tying my ankles more loose. So i´m going on with the 18mmROH.