Noob skate question: Just how much heel lock am I supposed to expect?

[Mlxg 1]

Hey all, I just got a pair of custom AS1s. Firstly, I'd like to say that I'm not impressed with how much my accessory navicular is hurting and that I'll have to punch it out despite it showing up clearly on my 3D scan and specifically noting it down in-text.

But that's neither here nor there. I'm more concerned about the heel lock in one of my skates.

Firstly, I have pretty narrow feet, especially at the heels, probably better for a Jetspeed fit to be honest (but couldn't wait for the FT2s and figured "custom" skates would accommodate for that anyway). I also got the extra Ribcor ankle pads to kind of hedge against the risk that AS1s would be too wide(?) And they sounded comfy.

My left foot is also a quarter size longer than my right. My issue now is that with the extra sizing it seems the entire boot is also a bit wider. The forefoot is not quite as snug as the right, the heel is considerably roomier. When unlaced, I have essentially no heel lock (pretty expected), and when laced cranked up, it's pretty good but on strides I can feel my foot lifting maybe 1mm off the insole, basically enough that it doesn't feel like I'm in full contact with the insole at all times. I honestly have no idea if this is normal/expected or not.

Even when I pull the skate vertically my heel doesn't really go anywhere, but I can of course feel it coming just slightly off the footbed. There's a little bit of lateral movement however when I pull horizontally (or when I skate on my edges).

By no means is my fit tragically bad/awful (like my previous Supremes ended up being) aside from the navicular part; I barely touch the toecaps for both standing upright and don't feel it at all when my knees are bent.

I've gotten the skates baked once for however long CCM suggests (apparently 4 minutes), which kind of feels like it didn't really do anything. Going in for a second bake and considering asking for a clamp around the heel or something to get it closer to a Jetspeed fit? If that's even possible without removing material?

So I guess my questions are: How much heel lock should I reasonably expect? How much more can I get (especially horizontally) with baking/clamp (i.e. does the composite material contrast)? Can I make the forefoot area slightly narrower with baking/clamp? What's the optimal time to bake these for since 4 minutes barely did anything? Should I give up, sell these, and just order custom FT2s or Trues (ok maybe not but Trues are looking mighty good right now).

Sorry, longish rant, but I appreciate any insight. I'm kinda OCD and not all-too-pleased given expectations for cost.

[Giltis 116]

It's unfortunate that you still have to deal with your navicular bone, I feel your pain (sorry for the pun). 

When I first went with my CCM Tacks, I actually went one below the monoframe boot knowing that I'd have to punch out that area (I was told if the skate didn't shape around the pain area on the first try, that it'd be hard to punch it out due to the stiffness of the carbon fibre, not sure if that was true or not), back then there were no custom options for CCM Tacks, not sure if it's the case but I would ask about that. I used to have a ritual of buying skates, baking it, punching it twice, and then baking it one last time.

I think Heel lock is nice, but I don't think 1mm lift is much of an issue other than feel (I know how it feels to be very particular about the feel, so this may be important to you). If I were you I'd get it baked again with extra tissue attached on the navicular bone to give it more room, and clamp on the heel (don't go crazy on the tightness though). 

For what it's worth, when I settled on my True Skates, it was really mind blowing to look at the skates out of the box and see all of the bumps and divots where in the past I'd have to punch out (I mean logically of course as they started with my feet, but still amazing to see it). But no more buying skates, and then spending 2 weeks going back and forth getting it punched out, skating to try it out and then baking again. All that said though, I'd still give your skates another chance at getting it right, doesn't seem like your issues are unfixable.

[Mlxg 1]

1 hour ago, Giltis said:

It's unfortunate that you still have to deal with your navicular bone, I feel your pain (sorry for the pun). 

When I first went with my CCM Tacks, I actually went one below the monoframe boot knowing that I'd have to punch out that area (I was told if the skate didn't shape around the pain area on the first try, that it'd be hard to punch it out due to the stiffness of the carbon fibre, not sure if that was true or not), back then there were no custom options for CCM Tacks, not sure if it's the case but I would ask about that. I used to have a ritual of buying skates, baking it, punching it twice, and then baking it one last time.

I think Heel lock is nice, but I don't think 1mm lift is much of an issue other than feel (I know how it feels to be very particular about the feel, so this may be important to you). If I were you I'd get it baked again with extra tissue attached on the navicular bone to give it more room, and clamp on the heel (don't go crazy on the tightness though). 

For what it's worth, when I settled on my True Skates, it was really mind blowing to look at the skates out of the box and see all of the bumps and divots where in the past I'd have to punch out (I mean logically of course as they started with my feet, but still amazing to see it). But no more buying skates, and then spending 2 weeks going back and forth getting it punched out, skating to try it out and then baking again. All that said though, I'd still give your skates another chance at getting it right, doesn't seem like your issues are unfixable.

Hah, good pun (if there exists such a thing!)

Yeah I've seriously considered surgically removing it at times. My supremes I had before were punched to hell. I might try that method of putting stuff in to make a bit more room. You can actually see the divot in the boot foam (I have extra form around) where that bone pushes through.

 

Maybe I should've settled on Trues... Cheaper and from what I can tell, better wrap with less negative space. Too bad I couldn't get over the aesthetics and durability concerns

[Vet88 674]

7 hours ago, Mlxg said:

Can I make the forefoot area slightly narrower with baking/clamp? What's the optimal time to bake these for since 4 minutes barely did anything? Should I give up, sell these, and just order custom FT2s or Trues (ok maybe not but Trues are looking mighty good right now).

Sorry, longish rant, but I appreciate any insight. I'm kinda OCD and not all-too-pleased given expectations for cost.

You can't really make the forefoot narrower, what I suggest you do is spot heat the 2 forefoot sides with a heat gun and then crank hard on the laces whilst someone pushes the sides in at the same time (or use a clamp). You can't do this with an oven because you do not want the eyelet area to have any heat in it. If you can improve the wrap this will naturally take care of any negative space and help to reduce any extra width. It's not going to narrow the boot by 1/2" but it should move the upper sides and top inwards / downwards a little and that may be enough for you.

As to the heel, you can bake and clamp but if you are looking for just heel work under the ankle I prefer to spot heat the inner quarter area under the ankle first with a heat gun, put the skate on, lie on the floor with the heated side facing upward then have someone stand on the heel area in bare feet (or with socks on). Use pucks or books to support the blade and holder. This will shape the boot around the inside of your heel. Wait 24 hours then do the other side. I have always had excellent results for heel lock doing this.

Note, if the boot is massively wide in the heel you need to use padding on the unheated side of your ankle when you do the first heat. This is so your foot remains in the center of the boot as you are compressing the first side. But if you pronate then don't pad anything, moving your heel slightly to the outside of the center line will help you. If you supinate you would do the outside quarter first.

My understanding about FT2's are they are wider in the heel pocket than FT1's. Why did you pick AS1's for a narrow heel? Jetspeeds or FT1's would have been a better bet and then you punch everything else out. As to heel lock, it's not the nirvana everyone preaches it's meant to be. It's what you are used to and your skating technique related to the boot you are in. I don't use laces (nor a lot of my students) and once your technique adjusts there is no issue with heel lock. Start dropping eyelets, after a while you will wonder why you even thought about it.

[Sniper9 529]

My as1s aren't custom but retail. I've only baked them once but have spot heated them w few times in diff areas, one being the heel. What I did was use s hear gun and heat the heel area/ ankle area and used my hands to press each side to make it narrower. The thing I found with the ccms is that once the composite gets pliable and u change it's shape, it tends to keep it's new shape fairly decently. 

When I got it baked I laced them barely snug. The fitter then used his hands to really squeeze and press all over like Scott does in his vh/true vids. And the wrap increased quite a bit to the point where the laces had a lot of slack while the boot cooled. 

Also I baked mine as recommended by my fitter for 7 mins. He said the recommended four mins is no where near enough. 

Lastly. The first couple skates after the bake I tied my skates just enough to remove the slack and even then it felt pretty tight. Now, after about two mths, the skates have def broken in quite a bit and I actually tie the top three eyelets pretty tight. They feel pretty good overall now though which I'm happy about bc the first two skates my feet KILLED.  Almost sold the too bc I didn't think the amount of pain I had was normal.