Heel Slip: What prevents heel slip in your skates?

[eugene8080 0]

I am trying to understand what parts of the skate are most important in preventing heel slip. This topic of heel slip has been covered many times, but I'd like to ask this question from a different perspective. 

For those of your who don't get heel slip, which parts of the skate do you feel are holding the heel down when you push down on the toe?

Put on you skates and push down on the ball of you foot/toes, what prevents the heel slip? Is it pressure from:

1) laces above the forefoot (bottom 3 eyelets)

2) laces above the instep (middle 3 eyelets)

3) laces in front of the ankles (top 3 eyelets)

4) downward pressure from behind+above the heel

5) foam surrounding the ankles

6) Pressure squeezing the foot back from the toecap and forward from the heel

7) Pressure squeezing heel laterally from either side

😎 Other

Also, do you feel

A) No heel slip at all (heel can feel) the foot bed while flexing the calf

B) No heel slip but heel comes off (1-2mm) foot bed due to compression of socks/skin/muscles

C) Some heel slip (heel comes off 2-5mm)

D) Moderate heel slip (5mm or above)

Also, do you toe-flick with:

1) push off using download pressure from ball of your feet

2) push off with scrunched toes (the way Laura Stamm teaches it if anyone has her instructional)

 

Personally, I'm trying to heat mold a pair of skates and I have narrow heels and ankles but wide forefoot. So I'm trying all kinds of things like ratchet clamping the skates, added layers of insoles, lacing, stable 26. None of them seem to do the trick...

Thanks.

 

[chikinpotpie 137]

You’re in the wrong skates. 

 

[Sniper9 529]

Wrong skates or pronation issue. When you have pronation issues your arch will collapse in the skates when you hear weight on that foot.. it'll throw that Skate off and make it feel "sloppy" regardless how good the heel lock is. One way to test it is by sitting with your skates on Tied up. Lean forward on one skate so the knee bends and heel pushed back into the heel pocket of the skates. Hole the skate down and try to lift your heel up. If you have little to no heel lift the lock is fine. Now walk around, if you get heel slip then it might be pronation issue. Or something else going on with biomechanics. Mind you, walking in skates and skating are completely different positions. So use the walking guideline as just a guideline. 

[Vet88 674]

Primarily it's muscle memory that causes the heel lift. When you put skates on and skate, your body is trying to do the same thing as when you walk, push down with the forefoot and lift the heel is part of your normal stride. A simple test is leave your laces untied and really loose, now go for a skate and one of the first things you will notice is how the heel lifts in the pocket as you get to the end of your stride.

So what holds the heel in place? It isn't the bottom 3 or 4 eyelets (the forefoot ones) or the top ones (around the leg), it's the eyelets that cover the front curve of the foot between the foot and the leg that lock your heel into the heel pocket and this is why you get lace bite if the boot does not have enough volume, the pressure of the lace downwards on the foot and the pressure of the foot lifting in the skate and coming up against the lace. The padding in the heel will help to a degree but the force of the lift is significant enough that no padding can ever hold the heel in place. It's possible that if you squeezed your foot into a size smaller boot (aka Paul Coffey) that the pressure lengthwise and the padding would be enough to lock the heel in place but do you really want to be in pain and limping for days after every skate?

You can learn how to skate differently (aka no heel lift) if you can put the time in. Start dropping eyelets until you can eventually skate with laces untied, then train this way and you will find your skate mechanics change for a whole host of reasons, and for the better. Or buy skates that fit your foot - narrow heels and ankles means you are looking for Jetpeeds (2017 line) or Vapours or Rbk 50ks or Rbk 70ks or customs. If they are too narrow elsewhere get them stretched and or punched. If the volume is not sufficient use eyelet extenders or Rbk lacelocks. If you train laces untied you will learn that heel lock isn't that important, it's your stride mechanics that count.

fwiw, I train with no laces and play games with only the bottom 3 (forefoot) eyelets laced up. Once you have learnt the lateral stability needed, the biggest change in your stride is when you accelerate or get on your toes, a lifetime of muscle training (eg walking and running) means you want to lift the heel and relearning how to accelerate and stride off the toes with no heel lift takes practice and time.

Edited March 14, 2020 by Vet88

[eugene8080 0]

On 3/14/2020 at 8:21 AM, Vet88 said:

Primarily it's muscle memory that causes the heel lift. When you put skates on and skate, your body is trying to do the same thing as when you walk, push down with the forefoot and lift the heel is part of your normal stride. A simple test is leave your laces untied and really loose, now go for a skate and one of the first things you will notice is how the heel lifts in the pocket as you get to the end of your stride.

So what holds the heel in place? It isn't the bottom 3 or 4 eyelets (the forefoot ones) or the top ones (around the leg), it's the eyelets that cover the front curve of the foot between the foot and the leg that lock your heel into the heel pocket and this is why you get lace bite if the boot does not have enough volume, the pressure of the lace downwards on the foot and the pressure of the foot lifting in the skate and coming up against the lace. The padding in the heel will help to a degree but the force of the lift is significant enough that no padding can ever hold the heel in place. It's possible that if you squeezed your foot into a size smaller boot (aka Paul Coffey) that the pressure lengthwise and the padding would be enough to lock the heel in place but do you really want to be in pain and limping for days after every skate?

You can learn how to skate differently (aka no heel lift) if you can put the time in. Start dropping eyelets until you can eventually skate with laces untied, then train this way and you will find your skate mechanics change for a whole host of reasons, and for the better. Or buy skates that fit your foot - narrow heels and ankles means you are looking for Jetpeeds (2017 line) or Vapours or Rbk 50ks or Rbk 70ks or customs. If they are too narrow elsewhere get them stretched and or punched. If the volume is not sufficient use eyelet extenders or Rbk lacelocks. If you train laces untied you will learn that heel lock isn't that important, it's your stride mechanics that count.

fwiw, I train with no laces and play games with only the bottom 3 (forefoot) eyelets laced up. Once you have learnt the lateral stability needed, the biggest change in your stride is when you accelerate or get on your toes, a lifetime of muscle training (eg walking and running) means you want to lift the heel and relearning how to accelerate and stride off the toes with no heel lift takes practice and time.

This training with no laces... I've been working on externally rotating my femur and activating my glute medius more during my stride. I find that I am able to get the toe flick more to the side instead of down (like walking). And of course using the glutes results in a lot more power. Is this similar to mechanical changes you noticed when you trained with no laces on?

[VegasHockey 1280]

On 3/13/2020 at 5:21 PM, Vet88 said:

Primarily it's muscle memory that causes the heel lift. When you put skates on and skate, your body is trying to do the same thing as when you walk, push down with the forefoot and lift the heel is part of your normal stride. A simple test is leave your laces untied and really loose, now go for a skate and one of the first things you will notice is how the heel lifts in the pocket as you get to the end of your stride.

So what holds the heel in place? It isn't the bottom 3 or 4 eyelets (the forefoot ones) or the top ones (around the leg), it's the eyelets that cover the front curve of the foot between the foot and the leg that lock your heel into the heel pocket and this is why you get lace bite if the boot does not have enough volume, the pressure of the lace downwards on the foot and the pressure of the foot lifting in the skate and coming up against the lace. The padding in the heel will help to a degree but the force of the lift is significant enough that no padding can ever hold the heel in place. It's possible that if you squeezed your foot into a size smaller boot (aka Paul Coffey) that the pressure lengthwise and the padding would be enough to lock the heel in place but do you really want to be in pain and limping for days after every skate?

You can learn how to skate differently (aka no heel lift) if you can put the time in. Start dropping eyelets until you can eventually skate with laces untied, then train this way and you will find your skate mechanics change for a whole host of reasons, and for the better. Or buy skates that fit your foot - narrow heels and ankles means you are looking for Jetpeeds (2017 line) or Vapours or Rbk 50ks or Rbk 70ks or customs. If they are too narrow elsewhere get them stretched and or punched. If the volume is not sufficient use eyelet extenders or Rbk lacelocks. If you train laces untied you will learn that heel lock isn't that important, it's your stride mechanics that count.

fwiw, I train with no laces and play games with only the bottom 3 (forefoot) eyelets laced up. Once you have learnt the lateral stability needed, the biggest change in your stride is when you accelerate or get on your toes, a lifetime of muscle training (eg walking and running) means you want to lift the heel and relearning how to accelerate and stride off the toes with no heel lift takes practice and time.

 

2 hours ago, eugene8080 said:

This training with no laces... I've been working on externally rotating my femur and activating my glute medius more during my stride. I find that I am able to get the toe flick more to the side instead of down (like walking). And of course using the glutes results in a lot more power. Is this similar to mechanical changes you noticed when you trained with no laces on?

You can start to learn to training with no laces by slowly decreasing the stability the laces provide. For example, drop the eyelet, lace, then after a few weeks drop the next eyelet, continue to repeat this as you adjust.

The other option is skipping eyelets when lacing up starting after the 3rd eyelet from the bottom. You can at first skip one eyelet, then later skip another, continue to repeat this as you adjust. 

Over time you will build muscle memory and strength in areas of your ankle/foot you are currently not using due to the added stability the laces + boot provide. 

[Vet88 674]

7 hours ago, eugene8080 said:

This training with no laces... I've been working on externally rotating my femur and activating my glute medius more during my stride. I find that I am able to get the toe flick more to the side instead of down (like walking). And of course using the glutes results in a lot more power. Is this similar to mechanical changes you noticed when you trained with no laces on?

Yes, that is one of the big changes you have to make, opening the feet and hips so that you can leverage the skate blade ie drive power into the ice and not have the skate blade move. Accelerating from a stop or slow speed is the other area where you have to turn the feet to the side, try pushing a goal across the rink (especially trying to explode of the mark) with laces untied, you will see what I mean 🙂

[eugene8080 0]

On 3/26/2020 at 8:02 AM, Vet88 said:

Yes, that is one of the big changes you have to make, opening the feet and hips so that you can leverage the skate blade ie drive power into the ice and not have the skate blade move. Accelerating from a stop or slow speed is the other area where you have to turn the feet to the side, try pushing a goal across the rink (especially trying to explode of the mark) with laces untied, you will see what I mean 🙂

Yeah I should take advantage of pushing the net across at the end of practice. But the nets aren't always out? Is there another thing to push. Another teammate I suppose is common...

[Vet88 674]

2 hours ago, eugene8080 said:

Yeah I should take advantage of pushing the net across at the end of practice. But the nets aren't always out? Is there another thing to push. Another teammate I suppose is common...

Either push or tow a team mate and ask them to dig in.