Profile Issue with Bauer Runners for Junior Skates

[vetrano 0]

Has anyone else had issues with the stock profile of the new Bauer runners since they retired the LS2, LS3, etc. for Junior sizes.  

Just got a pair of new Bauer Supremes in size 3 that came with the LS Balance runners.  Sharpened to my son's normal 5/8".  Brought him out to a stick and puck and he couldn't skate.  He said he felt like he was leaning backwards.  When we got home I took the runners out of the holder and compared them to runners from his old skates as well as my size 8.  

I found the LS Balance blade is about 1mm taller in the front than in the back.  Every other runner I have (SS, LS1, LS2, LS3 in various sizes) were the same height front and back (within 0.1mm).  Keep on mind none of these blades have ever been profiled.

I got him a set of LS2 and his skating is back to normal.  Again these are same height front and back.

I also got a set of the new LS Pulse blades (mirror finish).  Measured them at front and back and they are the same so I figured should be good to go.  First ice time with them was a failure.  Not as bad as the Balance blades, but the LS Pulse have very little material in the toe which threw him off.

Why is every model of Bauer blade made with a different profile?  Wouldn't it make sense for them to use the same profile across all models.  One that has the extra material in the toe and heel.  This would allow those who are ok with it to skate without extra expense.  If you want a custom profile there material is there to profile as you want.

[noupf 42]

24 minutes ago, vetrano said:

Has anyone else had issues with the stock profile of the new Bauer runners since they retired the LS2, LS3, etc. for Junior sizes.  

Just got a pair of new Bauer Supremes in size 3 that came with the LS Balance runners.  Sharpened to my son's normal 5/8".  Brought him out to a stick and puck and he couldn't skate.  He said he felt like he was leaning backwards.  When we got home I took the runners out of the holder and compared them to runners from his old skates as well as my size 8.  

I found the LS Balance blade is about 1mm taller in the front than in the back.  Every other runner I have (SS, LS1, LS2, LS3 in various sizes) were the same height front and back (within 0.1mm).  Keep on mind none of these blades have ever been profiled.

I got him a set of LS2 and his skating is back to normal.  Again these are same height front and back.

I also got a set of the new LS Pulse blades (mirror finish).  Measured them at front and back and they are the same so I figured should be good to go.  First ice time with them was a failure.  Not as bad as the Balance blades, but the LS Pulse have very little material in the toe which threw him off.

Why is every model of Bauer blade made with a different profile?  Wouldn't it make sense for them to use the same profile across all models.  One that has the extra material in the toe and heel.  This would allow those who are ok with it to skate without extra expense.  If you want a custom profile there material is there to profile as you want.

What exact model skate did you buy?  I know some of the entry level ccm skates and bauer skates come with a runner that has a longer profile or radius for beginners so the blades feel flatter on the ice for easier balancing as they learn. I think Bauer uses a 13' radius, while the rest of their skates have the standard 10' radius.   If you bought one of these and he knows how to skate already, i bet its throwing him off.

 

[vetrano 0]

1 hour ago, noupf said:

What exact model skate did you buy?  I know some of the entry level ccm skates and bauer skates come with a runner that has a longer profile or radius for beginners so the blades feel flatter on the ice for easier balancing as they learn. I think Bauer uses a 13' radius, while the rest of their skates have the standard 10' radius.   If you bought one of these and he knows how to skate already, i bet its throwing him off.

 

I don't think the issue is the 13' radius.  It seems to be that the balance point of the blades is on the heel as opposed to neutral like other blades I have.

 

The skates are Supreme M4 which are marketed as performance level.  I can see a learn to skate profile on a recreational skate but not on a performance or elite level skate.  We asked about the next skate up but the LHS suggested they would be too stiff given his size and weight.

[caveman27 208]

2 hours ago, vetrano said:

Has anyone else had issues with the stock profile of the new Bauer runners since they retired the LS2, LS3, etc. for Junior sizes.  

Just got a pair of new Bauer Supremes in size 3 that came with the LS Balance runners.  Sharpened to my son's normal 5/8".  Brought him out to a stick and puck and he couldn't skate.  He said he felt like he was leaning backwards.  When we got home I took the runners out of the holder and compared them to runners from his old skates as well as my size 8.  

I found the LS Balance blade is about 1mm taller in the front than in the back.  Every other runner I have (SS, LS1, LS2, LS3 in various sizes) were the same height front and back (within 0.1mm).  Keep on mind none of these blades have ever been profiled.

I got him a set of LS2 and his skating is back to normal.  Again these are same height front and back.

I also got a set of the new LS Pulse blades (mirror finish).  Measured them at front and back and they are the same so I figured should be good to go.  First ice time with them was a failure.  Not as bad as the Balance blades, but the LS Pulse have very little material in the toe which threw him off.

Why is every model of Bauer blade made with a different profile?  Wouldn't it make sense for them to use the same profile across all models.  One that has the extra material in the toe and heel.  This would allow those who are ok with it to skate without extra expense.  If you want a custom profile there material is there to profile as you want.

Maybe they outsource the blades so quality control is poor. I had the same problem with adult blades for a Tuuk Lightspeed 2 holder.

You could send the blades to a shop that removes front and back build up. Or, have the blades reprofiled for aggressive pitch but with the same radius. Or have the blades get a multi-radius profile with a shorter profile in the front than in the back. Considering you have 3 sets of blades, send one set to get reprofiled at a skate shop and explain to them he is experiencing the effect of a negative pitch (feels like he's leaning backwards). 

[Machine 7]

I would suspect the skates were previously sold and the first buyer had a profile put on the blades. They then returned them and the store resold them to you. Happens all the time.

Edited August 12, 2022 by Machine

[skatedoktor 4]

yep thats a stock blade, you will need to pitch the blade forward with a proper profile to get him pitched forward

[Paluce 26]

On 8/9/2022 at 1:21 PM, vetrano said:

I don't think the issue is the 13' radius.  It seems to be that the balance point of the blades is on the heel as opposed to neutral like other blades I have.

 

The skates are Supreme M4 which are marketed as performance level.  I can see a learn to skate profile on a recreational skate but not on a performance or elite level skate.  We asked about the next skate up but the LHS suggested they would be too stiff given his size and weight.

These blades are balances neutral. If you measure the steel height front and back they are the same. With a constant 13’ profile that makes it neutral.   The 13’ profile itself is horrible. Not for an advanced skater at all. It like you have a set of ski’s on.  
 

As soon as I profile them these blades with something with a bit of pitch and with less toe, they are just fine.    I always measure the skates the player came out of, and work from there so it’s an easy transition. 

[vetrano 0]

On 8/11/2022 at 9:03 PM, Machine said:

I would suspect the skates were previously sold and the first buyer had a profile put on the blades. They then returned them and the store resold them to you. Happens all the time.

These were brand new.  Not laced up and blades were never sharpened.

[vetrano 0]

In the end he found the stock LS2 blades the best for him.  Probably because that is the profile he has used for the last few seasons.  With LS2 blades his skating is back to where he left off with his old skates.

 

Thanks for everyone's input.