Low / Flat Arch + Wide Feet Advice. Severe Arch Pain.

[VirtualSmile 0]

Hey everyone,

Long time lurker, never posted until now. Recently got into Ice Skating and purchased my own skates as rentals just weren't comfortable. My Bauer 3D scan (see here) shows me just above 6.5 and recommends a 7. The only comfortable pair in-store were Bauer Supreme M4 in 7.0 Fit 3. They did not have any 6.5 for me to try in fit 3. My toes do not touch or brush the toe cap or tip of the skate even if I kick it against a wall. I only have one shop locally and all eastern state stores either don't have good return policies or are having stock issues.

I have had them baked twice, tried multiple inserts (and none at all, as recommended since I technically have nothing to support!!) and skated overall a total of 25-30 hours with them. Every session I get arch pain within 10 minutes and am unable to skate again until I take the boot off and let it rest for a while. It got so bad last week that my legs started shaking and I couldn't get off the ice without support. I have tried tieing the laces differently for arch pain, looser, tighter, different laxes (waxed / unwaxed), etc to no success. I tried my mates Bauer Nexus in 7.5 EE (way too long) yet I was able to skate for a whole two hours with minor arch pain and the addition of extra soreness in the flesh right below the ankle bone. It even made my ankles feel more stable and "secured" or "tight", probably due to the different fit between Nexus and Supreme lines. I have been rolling my arch and underfoot for around 3 weeks now and doing strengething and correction exercises whilst also stretching and warming them up prior to skate and other sports. I play Badminton 2-3 times a week with no issues, although very different shoes and weight transferring / movement. Nothing has helped with the pain and it has only gotten worse. I do not believe I have fallen or weakened arches. My local skate shop mentioned it's most likely due to the base footbed "lump" arch support pushing into my arches which my foot is either not used to, or it is pushing into the incorrect place due to the skate length being even slightly incorrect. Wearing the skates and walking around the house does not cause pain or discomfort even for prolonged periods.

The pain was only in my right foot until recently, where it also is in my left foot albeit not as bad (manageable, probably 30% of the pain in comparison).

I am looking to try a pair of True TF7 in EE from an interstate provider who has a decent refund policy (unfortunately can't bake them..). I read they are 0.5 - 1 size larger than Bauer / CCM measurements. According to my scan, should I start with a 6.0EE, or would a 6.5EE be safer? I read they are meant to feel slightly too small until baked.

If anyone has been in a similar situation and has any advice, that would be greatly appreciated. If any further information is required please ask! I can also supply images of where exactly the pain resides including red spots after a skate. These images also lead me to believe I'm not losing circulation or anything of the sort.

Thanks all.

Edited November 2, 2022 by VirtualSmile
Added information.

[puckpilot 312]

10 hours ago, VirtualSmile said:

My local skate shop mentioned it's most likely due to the base footbed "lump" arch support pushing into my arches which my foot is either not used to, or it is pushing into the incorrect place due to the skate length being even slightly incorrect.

IMHO, this sounds like what you wrote above is what's probably going on. Generally, you want to err on the side of slightly small than slightly big. This is because you can stretch skates for more room, but you can't shrink them. Also, as skates age, the liner compresses giving the skate even more room inside, so slightly big can become simply big. And yeah, it sounds like the skates are big for you.

One trick you can try before you start dropping more money is to swap out the skate's footbed with one out of an old sneaker. Make sure the sneaker footbed doesn't have that "lump", so it'll give you a bit more room around the arch. If you can't find an old sneaker footbed, just as an experiment, just take out the footbed entirely and see how that goes. It'll feel weird, but what you want to look for is to see if doing this reduces or eliminates the pain. If it does nothing for you, then it's probably new skate time. If it helps significantly, then you can look footbeds without the arch lump to put in.

[VirtualSmile 0]

7 hours ago, puckpilot said:

IMHO, this sounds like what you wrote above is what's probably going on. Generally, you want to err on the side of slightly small than slightly big. This is because you can stretch skates for more room, but you can't shrink them. Also, as skates age, the liner compresses giving the skate even more room inside, so slightly big can become simply big. And yeah, it sounds like the skates are big for you.

One trick you can try before you start dropping more money is to swap out the skate's footbed with one out of an old sneaker. Make sure the sneaker footbed doesn't have that "lump", so it'll give you a bit more room around the arch. If you can't find an old sneaker footbed, just as an experiment, just take out the footbed entirely and see how that goes. It'll feel weird, but what you want to look for is to see if doing this reduces or eliminates the pain. If it does nothing for you, then it's probably new skate time. If it helps significantly, then you can look footbeds without the arch lump to put in.

Thanks for the information.

What I mean by the "arch support in the foot bed" is in terms of the base / bottom of the boot, without an insole. The Supreme I have naturally curves quite hard where the arches sit compared to my mate's Nexus. I have skated without insoles and with the arch area cut out from the stock insoles - it helped slightly, allowing me to stay on the ice for an entire 30 minutes.

Thankfully I found an online store which has a decent return policy, but would like to get the best initial order as possible. As a 6.75, I'm torn between trying a 6.5 or a 6.0 EE (W), especially since as you stated, the slightest differences can cause a problem.

[noupf 42]

17 hours ago, VirtualSmile said:

Thanks for the information.

What I mean by the "arch support in the foot bed" is in terms of the base / bottom of the boot, without an insole. The Supreme I have naturally curves quite hard where the arches sit compared to my mate's Nexus. I have skated without insoles and with the arch area cut out from the stock insoles - it helped slightly, allowing me to stay on the ice for an entire 30 minutes.

Thankfully I found an online store which has a decent return policy, but would like to get the best initial order as possible. As a 6.75, I'm torn between trying a 6.5 or a 6.0 EE (W), especially since as you stated, the slightest differences can cause a problem.

Not sure if its a help, but I am in the process of trying the new CCM AS-V skates as well as the a pair of 100K Pro's.  I am currently in a 9 year old pair of Graf Ultra G75's that have a noticeable arch bump in the boots design.  I also have the higher end graf branded foot beds that have a little more arch support ( thin piece of plastic on the underside of the insole ) than the ones that came with the skates. I have relatively normal feet / arches and I took the graf insoles out and put them into my new ccm skates and I can tell that the arch bump in the ccm's is flatter or lower than the arch bump in the graf skates.  I do not have any foot pain while skating, but the day after, I have a little tenderness on the outside bottom of each foot.  It makes me think that the lower arch design in the boot is making me use the outside of each foot just a little more than I have over the last 9 years.  So I will likely be looking for a new insole that has a thicker arch support on the inside of each foot to help compensate for the flatter arch design in the ccm boot.  My point here........maybe try ccm skates and look at their arch design.

Edited November 3, 2022 by noupf

[VirtualSmile 0]

11 hours ago, noupf said:

Not sure if its a help, but I am in the process of trying the new CCM AS-V skates as well as the a pair of 100K Pro's.  I am currently in a 9 year old pair of Graf Ultra G75's that have a noticeable arch bump in the boots design.  I also have the higher end graf branded foot beds that have a little more arch support ( thin piece of plastic on the underside of the insole ) than the ones that came with the skates. I have relatively normal feet / arches and I took the graf insoles out and put them into my new ccm skates and I can tell that the arch bump in the ccm's is flatter or lower than the arch bump in the graf skates.  I do not have any foot pain while skating, but the day after, I have a little tenderness on the outside bottom of each foot.  It makes me think that the lower arch design in the boot is making me use the outside of each foot just a little more than I have over the last 9 years.  So I will likely be looking for a new insole that has a thicker arch support on the inside of each foot to help compensate for the flatter arch design in the ccm boot.  My point here........maybe try ccm skates and look at their arch design.

Hey mate, thanks for the input!

Unfortunately I have tried on the ribcor(?) and vapor lines in Fit3 and they are too small for my wide feet. I was advised the Tacks are the widest, but I have none in my country in stock that are 6.5 fit 3 and under a grand. I've also read online that the Tacks have a more aggressive base footbed bump in the arch, similar to my Supremes, but have yet to find a pair or an image to confirm.

I'll keep an eye out for sure though! 

Edited November 4, 2022 by VirtualSmile

[noupf 42]

11 hours ago, VirtualSmile said:

Hey mate, thanks for the input!

Unfortunately I have tried on the ribcor(?) and vapor lines in Fit3 and they are too small for my wide feet. I was advised the Tacks are the widest, but I have none in my country in stock that are 6.5 fit 3 and under a grand. I've also read online that the Tacks have a more aggressive base footbed bump in the arch, similar to my Supremes, but have yet to find a pair or an image to confirm.

I'll keep an eye out for sure though! 

Yes, the new tacks line has a lot more volume and width it appears.  I have a 9.5 regular width ribcor 100k pair that seems to fit me well.  The tacks as-v that fits the same on my foot is the 9.0 tapered ( narrow width ).  So 1/2 size smaller and a width size narrower.  Strange, but the tacks are clearly more volumous. 

Edited November 4, 2022 by noupf

[VegasHockey 1284]

2 hours ago, noupf said:

Yes, the new tacks line has a lot more volume and width it appears.  I have a 9.5 regular width ribcor 100k pair that seems to fit me well.  The tacks as-v that fits the same on my foot is the 9.0 tapered ( narrow width ).  So 1/2 size smaller and a width size narrower.  Strange, but the tacks are clearly more volumous. 

Yes, the new Tacks are all built using a 2022 last which CCM will be using for all future models. There is significantly more volume in the new last design. 

[marka 526]

Howdy,

I went through some pretty bad arch area foot pain when I started skating.  In hindsight, I think really only about half of that was due to the skates.  The other half I think was likely me clenching up my foot muscles all the time because I was unsteady on my feet, etc.

So that said... If you just wear the skates around your house walking around on carpet / whatever (use soakers on the skates to protect your carpet), do you also get pain?  edit:  So I actually re-read and see that you tried this and are not getting pain... To me, that says that you're clenching your foot muscles up out on the ice and either causing or exacerbating the issue.  I don't have a fix for this necessarily, outside of "get more comfortable so that you don't feel like you have to have your foot clenched up".  Possibly when you tried your buddie's skates, they were big enough that you were moving your foot around inside them and that prevented the cramping, etc?


And then unrelated to all of that...  If the issue is that the actual floor of the skate boot has a bump in it, you could always try a cheap store foot insole and cut away the insole in the area of the bump.  See if that relieves the pressure in that area.  If it does, then you can look into shaving down the skate insoles in the bump area with a sander or whatever to relieve some of the pressure.

Mark

Edited November 4, 2022 by marka

[Vet88 674]

On 11/2/2022 at 10:29 PM, VirtualSmile said:

I do not believe I have fallen or weakened arches. .

Take another look at the scan, you pronate and have a flattened arch (most likely as a result of the pronation as opposed to a genetic predisposition). In skates this becomes amplified as the foot rolls inwards even more.

If you have red points on your foot when you take the skate off then this is pressure points or rubbing (most likely the former). If they are on the bottom of the foot, get a heat gun, heat the area up in the boot and use the handle of a screwdriver to try and flatten / push the area out.