Tighter ankle wrap CCM FT6 Pros?

[Westside 220]

I've been skating in Trues for the last 3, almost 4 years. Before that I was skating in a few different models of Bauer for about a decade. The Trues make my feet feel more connected to the ice than anything I've ever skated in and made leaning on my outside edges extremely easy. A few months back I picked up a pair of heavily discounted FT6 Pros just because. The first few skates on them were terrible because they felt so sloppy. Tried a few different lacing techniques, rebaked them, and they feel solid now. However, the ankle area is still very wide, requires me to crank on the laces, and still outside edge work is not as smooth as with the Trues. 

Now, I'd imagine this is probably more my technique (or lack thereof), but does anyone have any experience, or is it even possible to get CCM boots to wrap more tightly like True boots? I've done the Saran Wrap method, but as you can see in the below photo, the opening is still extremely wide. The True opening isn't even as tight/narrow as my last pair of Trues, yet I can tie them barely snug and not have any problems. 

I have grown to really enjoy True skates, but am on my 3rd pair due to cracks so I'm just looking toward the future which is why I am hoping to make these FT6s work. I do not play at a competitive enough level that should require me to replace skates every year.   

 

[flip12 701]

True can get away with a tighter wrap because they're lower cut. Higher cut boots have to flare out to allow for ankle ROM without scraping away the soft tissue of the ankle. The skate is meant to hold that shape at all costs--that flare is in large part the essence of what it is, design-wise. I haven't tried to do it, but my guess would be you'll dislike the softness you'll need to induce in the shell to achieve the wrap you're after.

Kovalchuk has it in his Vapors, but they're Nylon/tech-mesh, not CURV, fibreglas, or composite like contemporary skates are, and I'd bet he deliberately creases them to hell upon baking them to achieve the flex X wrap he wants, because you see it in his Return Of The Kovy era NHL skates that look relatively new.

[Westside 220]

The Cat Pros are actually slightly taller than the FT6 Pros (approximately 1/4"). Both have the exact same holders and steel so this height difference in boot is as apples to apples as you can get. The FT6 rear heel/achilles area drops down substantially more compared to the Catalyst boot, but that shouldn't have any relevance to the conversation here. 

 

 

 

[Sniper9 518]

But when you actually use a tape measure from the base to the cuff edge what are the numbers?

Why don't you try spot heat gunning the cuff area then shrink wrapping. I think a big difference is also the length of time true skates are baked. 10+ mins vs 5 mins tops for ccm. 

All that said, it could be just you need to adapt to the fit of the ft6 pro and accept that the cuff won't wrap as much as the trues.  Every time I try skates on whether it be Bauer or ccm, I definitely noticed more flex and ankle instability but nothing to the point I didn't think I couldn't get used to after a few skates. 

I'm actually thinking of trying the ft6 pros as I don't want to go back to true due to their poor QC and durability. 

Edited December 29, 2023 by Sniper9

[flip12 701]

1 hour ago, Westside said:

The Cat Pros are actually slightly taller than the FT6 Pros (approximately 1/4"). Both have the exact same holders and steel so this height difference in boot is as apples to apples as you can get. The FT6 rear heel/achilles area drops down substantially more compared to the Catalyst boot, but that shouldn't have any relevance to the conversation here. 

Huh, interesting. Do the top eyelets on the Trues come up higher on your leg? It's hard to see an exact comparison from your picture due to the perspective angle, and it looks like some of it could be the subtraction CCM's made to the back of their retail boots in recent iterations. I didn't realize CCM dropped their boot height that much. I thought they used to be taller internally.

[Westside 220]

2 minutes ago, Sniper9 said:

But when you actually use a tape measure from the base to the cuff edge what are the numbers?

Why don't you try spot heat gunning the cuff area then shrink wrapping. I think a big difference is also the length of time true skates are baked. 10+ mins vs 5 mins tops for ccm. 

All that said, it could be just you need to adapt to the fit of the ft6 pro and accept that the cuff won't wrap as much as the trues. I'm actually thinking of trying the ft6 pros as I don't want to go back to true due to their poor QC and durability. 

FT6 Pro: 10 3/16" so my 0.25" guesstimate was just about spot on

Catalyst Pro: 10" on the dot from the floor to the top edge of the cuff

The spot heating/wrapping idea was what I had planned to do next. Like I said, I did this method previously although I baked the entire skate. Might ask the help of a friend to try and coax the cuff in a bit more. 

I think your last comment is probably most accurate and what I was expecting. Just figured there are so many players here that use multiple skates, including True, that I figured someone would have experience with it.

 

 

[Westside 220]

6 minutes ago, flip12 said:

Huh, interesting. Do the top eyelets on the Trues come up higher on your leg? It's hard to see an exact comparison from your picture due to the perspective angle, and it looks like some of it could be the subtraction CCM's made to the back of their retail boots in recent iterations. I didn't realize CCM dropped their boot height that much. I thought they used to be taller internally.

Reference the photo above to see where the eyelets fall. 9.5-ish vs 9.25-ish CCM vs True so the CCM comes up higher

Edited December 29, 2023 by Westside

[Sniper9 518]

Very interesting. I did always notice how I have to drop the top eyelet on true skates but don't with Bauer or ccm and if I did I felt my ankles were mangled lol. So it is definitely more than just boot height. Stiffness, wrap, etc. Just completely different boots.

I know a lot of people that own trues who  flare out the cuff so it doesn't wrap as much for ease of getting the skates on and off. So those people would theoretically be able to go from one skate to another without as much of an adjustment period since there's less of an aggressive wrap. 

[Westside 220]

I can drop an eyelet with the Trues no problem if I want to. I normally don’t, but when I do it’s not an issue. I didn’t wrap the Cats as much as I did with any of my TF boots. The TFs were really tight and I had to twist like crazy to get them on/off. Decided to make it a bit more relaxed with the Cats, so I don’t have to twist my foot near as much

[stick9 881]

My opinion... Judging by the first two pics. The CCM boot is way too deep/wide for you. You look lost in that boot. Which would also explain your other issues. Anyways, looks like you need a Reg fit.

[Westside 220]

1 hour ago, stick9 said:

My opinion... Judging by the first two pics. The CCM boot is way too deep/wide for you. You look lost in that boot. Which would also explain your other issues. Anyways, looks like you need a Reg fit.

The boot is a Regular fit. Can’t squeeze my foot into a tapered boot. No heel lift, toes brush the cap, minimal negative space around my feet. It’s worth noting the laces are almost completely undone and the tongue is pulled way out. Only area that is ‘wide’ is the ankle. The facing of the True boot may appear more snug but it doesn’t move whereas the CCM facing still flexes when I tighten the laces.

 

Edit, undid the laces on the FT6 to hopefully show the volume a little bit better. Pencil test across the top of my foot and the pen just misses my foot. Same applies to higher up my foot where my ankle flexes. In my eyes, it’s only the upper ankle area where it flares out that is too big. My foot is hugged everywhere else in the boot

 

Edited December 30, 2023 by Westside

[Sniper9 518]

1 hour ago, Westside said:

The boot is a Regular fit. Can’t squeeze my foot into a tapered boot. No heel lift, toes brush the cap, minimal negative space around my feet. It’s worth noting the laces are almost completely undone and the tongue is pulled way out. Only area that is ‘wide’ is the ankle. The facing of the True boot may appear more snug but it doesn’t move whereas the CCM facing still flexes when I tighten the laces 

True boots are the stiffest out there. Even with the cats supposedly being their more flexible version I don't really find it much different than the tf customs I had.  So add another variable to reasons why they ft6 pros feel much different around the ankle 

Edited December 30, 2023 by Sniper9

[Westside 220]

31 minutes ago, Sniper9 said:

True boots address the stiffest out there. Even with the cats supposedly being their more flexible version I don't really find it much different than the tf customs I had.  So add another variable to reasons why they ft6 pros feel much different around the ankle 

I would agree with that. Apart from the Tendon guard, I don’t notice any significant difference between the TF and Cat as far as flex is concerned. I had both skates set up the same (tongue, insole, holders, runners)

[flip12 701]

14 hours ago, Westside said:

FT6 Pro: 10 3/16" so my 0.25" guesstimate was just about spot on

Catalyst Pro: 10" on the dot from the floor to the top edge of the cuff

The spot heating/wrapping idea was what I had planned to do next. Like I said, I did this method previously although I baked the entire skate. Might ask the help of a friend to try and coax the cuff in a bit more. 

I think your last comment is probably most accurate and what I was expecting. Just figured there are so many players here that use multiple skates, including True, that I figured someone would have experience with it.

They’re very close though, so even if the CCMs are taller, the difference is a lot less than I thought from my first post.

Have you compared how high they come up on your leg out of curiosity? That would be a little more accurate for showing how close they are. Measuring from the outside is a decent indicator, but there can still be a few mm of height difference due to the stack from the bottom of the foot to the outsole. Looking at how high they come up on you exposes their effective height rather than their apparent height. 

[Westside 220]

3 hours ago, flip12 said:

They’re very close though, so even if the CCMs are taller, the difference is a lot less than I thought from my first post.

Have you compared how high they come up on your leg out of curiosity? That would be a little more accurate for showing how close they are. Measuring from the outside is a decent indicator, but there can still be a few mm of height difference due to the stack from the bottom of the foot to the outsole. Looking at how high they come up on you exposes their effective height rather than their apparent height. 

The measurement results are the same as I’ve shown in the other photos. Approximately 1/4” taller with the FT6 

[stick9 881]

17 hours ago, Westside said:

The boot is a Regular fit. Can’t squeeze my foot into a tapered boot. No heel lift, toes brush the cap, minimal negative space around my feet. It’s worth noting the laces are almost completely undone and the tongue is pulled way out. Only area that is ‘wide’ is the ankle. The facing of the True boot may appear more snug but it doesn’t move whereas the CCM facing still flexes when I tighten the laces.

 

Edit, undid the laces on the FT6 to hopefully show the volume a little bit better. Pencil test across the top of my foot and the pen just misses my foot. Same applies to higher up my foot where my ankle flexes. In my eyes, it’s only the upper ankle area where it flares out that is too big. My foot is hugged everywhere else in the boot

 

They still look really wide to me. But anyway...

My 100ks have WAY better wrap than that and that's only a single bake without any plastic wrap or the likes therof. 

Temp and oven time should be part of the equation. I don't think boot height is your issue. You should be able to get ridiculous wrap regardless of height. Whether or not height or wrap is helpful is a separate discussion.

[Westside 220]

53 minutes ago, stick9 said:

They still look really wide to me. But anyway...

My 100ks have WAY better wrap than that and that's only a single bake without any plastic wrap or the likes therof. 

Temp and oven time should be part of the equation. I don't think boot height is your issue. You should be able to get ridiculous wrap regardless of height. Whether or not height or wrap is helpful is a separate discussion.

Would you please share your baking settings? I don’t recall what I used with these, but I probably went with True baking instructions since that’s what I’m used to doing at home

[stick9 881]

2 hours ago, Westside said:

Would you please share your baking settings? I don’t recall what I used with these, but I probably went with True baking instructions since that’s what I’m used to doing at home

I had them baked at a local Pure Hockey, no details other than it was a Bauer oven, they came out one at a time and they were pretty hot when I put them on. Sorry.

[VegasHockey 1267]

On 12/29/2023 at 9:08 AM, Westside said:

I've been skating in Trues for the last 3, almost 4 years. Before that I was skating in a few different models of Bauer for about a decade. The Trues make my feet feel more connected to the ice than anything I've ever skated in and made leaning on my outside edges extremely easy. A few months back I picked up a pair of heavily discounted FT6 Pros just because. The first few skates on them were terrible because they felt so sloppy. Tried a few different lacing techniques, rebaked them, and they feel solid now. However, the ankle area is still very wide, requires me to crank on the laces, and still outside edge work is not as smooth as with the Trues. 

Now, I'd imagine this is probably more my technique (or lack thereof), but does anyone have any experience, or is it even possible to get CCM boots to wrap more tightly like True boots? I've done the Saran Wrap method, but as you can see in the below photo, the opening is still extremely wide. The True opening isn't even as tight/narrow as my last pair of Trues, yet I can tie them barely snug and not have any problems. 

I have grown to really enjoy True skates, but am on my 3rd pair due to cracks so I'm just looking toward the future which is why I am hoping to make these FT6s work. I do not play at a competitive enough level that should require me to replace skates every year.   

You will never get a retail CCM or Bauer skates to have the same wrap as TRUE as those brands don't design the retail skate itself to wrap. 

If you went with a custom CCM, you could request to have added facing, which would allow the cuff to wrap the way you want. 

[Sniper9 518]

8 hours ago, Westside said:

Would you please share your baking settings? I don’t recall what I used with these, but I probably went with True baking instructions since that’s what I’m used to doing at home

If you went with true baking settings then it would've been pretty soft. Although the retail guidelines for true is only 6 mins at around 180 f. But that should be plenty for ccm skates. If their shells are anything like the as1 skates they get soft pretty fast and are very moldable, especially with a heat gun. 

[Westside 220]

6 hours ago, VegasHockey said:

You will never get a retail CCM or Bauer skates to have the same wrap as TRUE as those brands don't design the retail skate itself to wrap. 

If you went with a custom CCM, you could request to have added facing, which would allow the cuff to wrap the way you want. 

Wasn’t expecting that tight of a wrap, just looking to see if it was possible to get a better wrap than i currently have 

2 hours ago, Sniper9 said:

If you went with true baking settings then it would've been pretty soft. Although the retail guidelines for true is only 6 mins at around 180 f. But that should be plenty for ccm skates. If their shells are anything like the as1 skates they get soft pretty fast and are very moldable, especially with a heat gun. 

Might try to make the trek to the local pure hockey next week and ask to use their oven 

[Sniper9 518]

13 hours ago, Westside said:

Wasn’t expecting that tight of a wrap, just looking to see if it was possible to get a better wrap than i currently have 

Might try to make the trek to the local pure hockey next week and ask to use their oven 

If you have a convection just use that. I've done many skates in mine and it's fine as long as you keep an eye on the temp. For trues I don't turn the oven off and flip them halfway. For Bauer ccm I'll turn it off once the target temp has reached but i tend to leave their skates in a couple mins longer bc their baking instructions are very modest. 

[VegasHockey 1267]

14 hours ago, Westside said:

Wasn’t expecting that tight of a wrap, just looking to see if it was possible to get a better wrap than i currently have 

You might be able to get a little more wrap, but it technically defeats the design of those skates, since they aren't built to wrap tightly. 

14 hours ago, Westside said:

Might try to make the trek to the local pure hockey next week and ask to use their oven 

That would be a good idea. While you can do it yourself at home, if you damage the skates, then you won't be able to file a warranty claim. 

[Sniper9 518]

2 hours ago, VegasHockey said:

You might be able to get a little more wrap, but it technically defeats the design of those skates, since they aren't built to wrap tightly. 

That would be a good idea. While you can do it yourself at home, if you damage the skates, then you won't be able to file a warranty claim. 

I think his skates are beyond the warranty is I remember correctly as to when he got them

[Westside 220]

Definitely outside of any return window. 
 

I’ve baked a number of True skates at home and did the same with these initially but perhaps I need to leave them in a bit longer so the become a bit more pliable