Custom Bauer 2S Pro skates queries

[Leif 160]

Over 5 years ago I dropped £820 on some nice new Bauer 2S Pro skates, which was a lot of money for me. Over several years, I took one on one lessons to rework my skating, get correct posture etc. I play at least twice a week, and practice skating at least once a week and the skates are now rather tatty.

Recently I saw some True TF9 skates at about half price with a 30 day money back warranty. So I bought a pair. After all, I couldn’t lose. Seven skates later, including 3 hockey sessions, and I can’t believe how much better they are. My skating, especially edge drills, has improved massively. I was struggling before with power pulls (one foot slalom). Now I can do them really well, on either leg, with deep edges, it feels so easy. Forwards cross rolls are much better, I can get much deeper edges i.e. lean more. I sometimes had an issue with the left foot sliding during forwards CW crossovers. That’s all gone. I can feel the edges far more, I’ve gone from 5/8” hollow to 1”, and I feel more stable. I had an occasional tendency in the Bauers to fall backwards. No more. I’m still getting used to them, but I tried backwards scissors skate today, no problem, much better. I also tried backwards crossrolls but the rink was a bit too busy to feel comfortable i.e. safety. Foward flex is good, lateral support is much better. 

Does anyone know why I should see so much improvement going from Bauer customs to stock Trues? I’ve not read any similar reports, and I really did not expect it. Is there some simple explanation for why my Bauer customs might not have worked as well as expected for me? Could there be a manufacturing issue, or a fit issue? I had new holders fitted a few years back, and I trust the tech, he would have mentioned any obvious issues with the original holders. 

Bauer customs are used by many excellent skaters, so they should be very good. I do think my left skate had an issue of some sort, which I blamed on myself, and worked to correct. 

The True one piece boot could explain better ice feel and grip. The blades have more forward pitch, and two primary curves, not just one. That could explain stability. But the level of improvement suggests something fundamentally wrong with the Bauer skates. I know Bauer customs aren’t really customs, each foot is fitted with a stock skate, with 1/4 size increments, and the boot squeezed under heat and pressure to a last. So maybe the boot just didn’t suit my duck feet (very narrow lower leg, foot widest at the toes i.e. flipper shaped). The Bauer were basically size 7, the True 6.5, so a bigger holder and blade on the Bauer. 

Edited February 9 by Leif

[Leif 160]

I’m surprised no-one has had similar experiences. I’m now sure the left Bauer skate is defective, as drills on my left foot are now so much easier in the Trues. It might have a misaligned holder, perhaps a 2 mm offset at one end and -2 mm at the other end, but it is hard to tell. I guess it could also be misaligned internally, perhaps a slight twist of the last when doing the pressure heat moulding. 

I know this isn’t just a Bauer problem, there’s plenty of reports here of problems with True customs too. Maybe because customs are hand made, they are more subject to quality control issues. 

 

[krisdrum 223]

Could be any number of things really.  I had a similar experience when I moved to the TF7 and 9.  I felt way more grounded and supported and stable.  Some boots just work for some people more than others.  I wasn't in custom boots prior to that, but in what I thought was a pretty well fitted pair of Grafs, a brand known for their multiple fits and "custom like" fit options.  I know I pronate and collapse a decent amount.  I'm sure I still do, but I've gotten stronger and the TFs support me in a way that significantly reduces it.  I can feel that.  For whatever reason I am better aligned over the blades.  Sounds like it works for you (whether for the same reason or not).  I wouldn't overthink it too much.  The 5 years with the Bauers let you work on your skating and game until you discovered the TFs.  Now you can really appreciate them.      

[Leif 160]

16 hours ago, krisdrum said:

Could be any number of things really.  I had a similar experience when I moved to the TF7 and 9.  I felt way more grounded and supported and stable.  Some boots just work for some people more than others.  I wasn't in custom boots prior to that, but in what I thought was a pretty well fitted pair of Grafs, a brand known for their multiple fits and "custom like" fit options.  I know I pronate and collapse a decent amount.  I'm sure I still do, but I've gotten stronger and the TFs support me in a way that significantly reduces it.  I can feel that.  For whatever reason I am better aligned over the blades.  Sounds like it works for you (whether for the same reason or not).  I wouldn't overthink it too much.  The 5 years with the Bauers let you work on your skating and game until you discovered the TFs.  Now you can really appreciate them.      

Thanks. I think you have hit the nail on the head: “some boots just work for some people more than others”. I pronate, and I have a suspicion that the Bauer customs don’t provide me with adequate support. In addition I have duck feet with very narrow lower legs. Bauer skate fits all seem to assume a similar shape, with three volumes and a couple of widths. Hence stock Bauers are painful for me. I suspect the customs are the same shape as stock boots, just fitted to each foot in 1/4 size increments, and a few more widths. And I suspect to get mine to fit, they sized the width to my forefoot and then they filled the large ankle area with a lot of foam. Plus a bit of pressure moulding. My lower legs do look tiny in the huge boot opening. I am guessing about the reasons of course, but it’s like going from a Trabant to a Porsche 911. 

I do feel somewhat angry with Bauer, they market customs as made to fit the players feet, which is not really the case. I think True SVH are the only truly custom skate on the market. I assume CCM are as per Bauer. 

[krisdrum 223]

1 hour ago, Leif said:

 I do feel somewhat angry with Bauer, they market customs as made to fit the players feet, which is not really the case. I think True SVH are the only truly custom skate on the market. I assume CCM are as per Bauer. 

Pretty sure True's claim to fame is "built from the inside out".  At least for their custom offerings.  Believe some of their other offerings are similar to what you are assuming Bauer and CCM do.  To me I think where the big 2 fall down is in the material and thermo-formability.  I've just never seen any other boot do what the True boot does when you apply heat to it.  So in some ways regardless of what others are doing, the Trues have the advantage on forming to the unique shapes and structures of each foot in a way that I don't think is really possible with the other 2.  

Edited February 13 by krisdrum

[mojo122 530]

Bauer and CCM must be doing something right where they have 90% of the NHL players in their skates.  They also dominate at retail.

[Sniper9 518]

3 hours ago, mojo122 said:

Bauer and CCM must be doing something right where they have 90% of the NHL players in their skates.  They also dominate at retail.

Pros get a different more comprehensive custom skate. That and ccm Bauer been around way longer than true so they definitely have the edge in terms of brand loyalty. 

At the retail level, it's a trickle effect of what people see the pros use in the NHL.  True needs to really up their game in the quality and durability department though. Ifs laughable. At least they're getting a bit better in the esthetics department.

 

[Sniper9 518]

On 2/12/2024 at 3:25 PM, krisdrum said:

Could be any number of things really.  I had a similar experience when I moved to the TF7 and 9.  I felt way more grounded and supported and stable.  Some boots just work for some people more than others.  I wasn't in custom boots prior to that, but in what I thought was a pretty well fitted pair of Grafs, a brand known for their multiple fits and "custom like" fit options.  I know I pronate and collapse a decent amount.  I'm sure I still do, but I've gotten stronger and the TFs support me in a way that significantly reduces it.  I can feel that.  For whatever reason I am better aligned over the blades.  Sounds like it works for you (whether for the same reason or not).  I wouldn't overthink it too much.  The 5 years with the Bauers let you work on your skating and game until you discovered the TFs.  Now you can really appreciate them.      

True skates are so stiff that you definitely feel better supported if you are a pronater. The combo of true and Bauer speed plates for me was great for my pronating right foot. I'm in machs now with speed plates and I actually find the machs better overall. Just as comfortable and my agility and foot speed is much better. True did offer more stability in my hard/punch turns though due to the very stiff sidewalls. 

[krisdrum 223]

9 hours ago, Sniper9 said:

Pros get a different more comprehensive custom skate. That and ccm Bauer been around way longer than true so they definitely have the edge in terms of brand loyalty. 

At the retail level, it's a trickle effect of what people see the pros use in the NHL.  True needs to really up their game in the quality and durability department though. Ifs laughable. At least they're getting a bit better in the esthetics department.

 

100% agree.  At least we have options now.  Everyone's feet are different.  And I've suffered through enough discomfort with my feet to know a pair of well fitting skates is probably the most important piece of equipment you can invest in.  I haven't been skating since I was 2 like most of the NHL guys.  And I'm also not getting my skates for free.  Having a "near custom" fit experience at multiple retail price points is amazing for those of us who need it or see the value in it due to unique biomechanics or whatever.  

And yes, the durability issues need to be addressed or what inroads they've made in the retail space will start to decline.  Hopefully these new models fix at least some of those issues.  

[Leif 160]

On 2/14/2024 at 4:23 AM, Sniper9 said:

Pros get a different more comprehensive custom skate. That and ccm Bauer been around way longer than true so they definitely have the edge in terms of brand loyalty. 

At the retail level, it's a trickle effect of what people see the pros use in the NHL.  True needs to really up their game in the quality and durability department though. Ifs laughable. At least they're getting a bit better in the esthetics department.

Yes, the pro fit is much more custom. You are right about the trickle effect, and seeing that most other people on the rink wear Bauer with some CCM too. I would never have bought True were it not for a deep discount (half price) and 30 day no quibble money back warranty. I thought they would be rubbish. Now I would happily pay full price. There do seem to be plenty of reports of issues with True. However, I know many users, and only one issue which was the tendon guard needing a new bolt. A UK semi-pro hockey player on the Hockey Tutorial YouTube channel tests lots of skates. He was very impressed with the durability of his True customs, much better than his Bauer Hyperlites and some others too. I know so many people who have Bauers and CCMs and complain about painful feet. And I know several people with Bauer Hyperlites who hate the tongue. Of course my samples are tiny, but there is a tendency to only hear from unhappy users. 

It takes time to penetrate a market, and in the UK Bauer is the big name, the biggest hockey shop is now Bauer only. They dropped True and CCM. I cynically think that most of these ‘features’ that Bauer push out are gimmicks but they appeal to the youngsters, or at least convince them that they are getting the mutts. 

Edited February 15 by Leif

[Sniper9 518]

6 hours ago, Leif said:

Yes, the pro fit is much more custom. You are right about the trickle effect, and seeing that most other people on the rink wear Bauer with some CCM too. I would never have bought True were it not for a deep discount (half price) and 30 day no quibble money back warranty. I thought they would be rubbish. Now I would happily pay full price. There do seem to be plenty of reports of issues with True. However, I know many users, and only one issue which was the tendon guard needing a new bolt. A UK semi-pro hockey player on the Hockey Tutorial YouTube channel tests lots of skates. He was very impressed with the durability of his True customs, much better than his Bauer Hyperlites and some others too. I know so many people who have Bauers and CCMs and complain about painful feet. And I know several people with Bauer Hyperlites who hate the tongue. Of course my samples are tiny, but there is a tendency to only hear from unhappy users. 

It takes time to penetrate a market, and in the UK Bauer is the big name, the biggest hockey shop is now Bauer only. They dropped True and CCM. I cynically think that most of these ‘features’ that Bauer push out are gimmicks but they appeal to the youngsters, or at least convince them that they are getting the mutts. 

The true customs (svh) aren't the same as the retail boots or even the custom tailored hzrdus and catalyst pros. The latter two use the retail shell. Svh customs have been generally pretty good in terms of durability. The catalyst and tf boots are the ones that showed cracking issues. And I'm starting to see some posts online  for the hzrdus too. Tendon guard coming off isn't really an issue for me since the repair is so easy, but cracking boots is a no no. 

Edited February 16 by Sniper9

[krisdrum 223]

2 hours ago, Sniper9 said:

The true customs (svh) aren't the same as the retail boots or even the custom tailored hzrdus and catalyst pros. The latter two use the retail shell. Svh customs have been generally pretty good in terms of durability. The catalyst and tf boots are the ones that showed cracking issues. And I'm starting to see some posts online  for the hzrdus too. Tendon guard coming off isn't really an issue for me since the repair is so easy, but cracking boots is a no no. 

Cracking boots is the black eye they need to fix asap.  For someone like me, who is only on the ice a day or two a week, no big deal.  But when the boot cracks for my kid, who is skating 5, 6, 7 days a week 8 months of the year, that is a huge problem for me.  Luckily he was able to continue to use his cracked Cat 9s while the replacement was en route.  If the failure of the crack had been more catastrophic, I'm not sure we would have stuck with True, despite my kid saying they are by far the best skates he has ever worn.  The replacements I am keeping a very close eye on.  If they start to go down the same path - we'll have to have a very serious talk about what to do next, as he also really liked the way the Bauer Machs fit pre-bake.  

[Leif 160]

10 hours ago, krisdrum said:

Cracking boots is the black eye they need to fix asap.  For someone like me, who is only on the ice a day or two a week, no big deal.  But when the boot cracks for my kid, who is skating 5, 6, 7 days a week 8 months of the year, that is a huge problem for me.  Luckily he was able to continue to use his cracked Cat 9s while the replacement was en route.  If the failure of the crack had been more catastrophic, I'm not sure we would have stuck with True, despite my kid saying they are by far the best skates he has ever worn.  The replacements I am keeping a very close eye on.  If they start to go down the same path - we'll have to have a very serious talk about what to do next, as he also really liked the way the Bauer Machs fit pre-bake.  

How long did it take for the cracks to appear? I seem to recall he’s about 15. Is this all scrimmage, or a mix of games and training? Do you have any idea what caused the cracks e.g. a slapper to the skate shell? 

12 hours ago, Sniper9 said:

The true customs (svh) aren't the same as the retail boots or even the custom tailored hzrdus and catalyst pros. The latter two use the retail shell. Svh customs have been generally pretty good in terms of durability. The catalyst and tf boots are the ones that showed cracking issues. And I'm starting to see some posts online  for the hzrdus too. Tendon guard coming off isn't really an issue for me since the repair is so easy, but cracking boots is a no no. 

Do you have experience with this yourself? Or is this from online posts? Do you know what sort of failure rate there is? I spoke to a semi pro hockey player who said he went through two pairs of Bauer boots a year. Tommy H. on Hockey Tutorial, a semi pro player, says boots (Bauer, CCM) generally last him 6 months. I’m not trying to make excuses for True, rather I’d like to get a feel for how prevalent the issues are, and when they appear. I know about 4 people including myself with TF9s. I skate at lesst 3 times a week, including two casual hockey games. I’m a good skater, but not powerful and a fairly lean build. My Bauer customs seemed to have retained their integrity after 5 years, despite severe cosmetic wear. 

[krisdrum 223]

22 minutes ago, Leif said:

How long did it take for the cracks to appear? I seem to recall he’s about 15. Is this all scrimmage, or a mix of games and training? Do you have any idea what caused the cracks e.g. a slapper to the skate shell? 

Less than 8 months (end of March skates purchased to November when I finally reached out to True), probably closer to 6 months.  And that includes the entire summer, where he was on the ice much less. Maybe 1-2 times a week.  He is 13 - first year of full body contact. He is in a very intense program and will have completed over 70 games by the end of the season.  So definitely mix of practice and games.  No obvious reason for the cracking.  The only thing we can think of is he likes to bang his heels back into the skate when lacing up, but based on the position of the cracks, no way it was a shot block unless people are taking slappers at his back on a regular basis.  I would think he'd be having other issues (bruises, etc. elsewhere on his back if that was the case).  Maybe getting stepped on in battle drills?  But I think that is doubtful as well.  The irony is I also bang my heels back, but have had zero issues with my TF9s.  Those heels are still smooth as the day they came out of the box.     

[Leif 160]

2 minutes ago, krisdrum said:

Less than 8 months (end of March skates purchased to November when I finally reached out to True), probably closer to 6 months.  And that includes the entire summer, where he was on the ice much less. Maybe 1-2 times a week.  He is 13 - first year of full body contact. He is in a very intense program and will have completed over 70 games by the end of the season.  So definitely mix of practice and games.  No obvious reason for the cracking.  The only thing we can think of is he likes to bang his heels back into the skate when lacing up, but based on the position of the cracks, no way it was a shot block unless people are taking slappers at his back on a regular basis.  I would think he'd be having other issues (bruises, etc. elsewhere on his back if that was the case).  Maybe getting stepped on in battle drills?  But I think that is doubtful as well.  The irony is I also bang my heels back, but have had zero issues with my TF9s.  Those heels are still smooth as the day they came out of the box.     

Thanks. That’s not good. Banging the heel to force the foot back is quite normal, I find it helps the heel lock. I put a lot of stress on my boots with outside edge stops and powerpulls when practicing. 

[krisdrum 223]

44 minutes ago, Leif said:

Do you have experience with this yourself? Or is this from online posts? Do you know what sort of failure rate there is? I spoke to a semi pro hockey player who said he went through two pairs of Bauer boots a year. Tommy H. on Hockey Tutorial, a semi pro player, says boots (Bauer, CCM) generally last him 6 months. I’m not trying to make excuses for True, rather I’d like to get a feel for how prevalent the issues are, and when they appear. I know about 4 people including myself with TF9s. I skate at lesst 3 times a week, including two casual hockey games. I’m a good skater, but not powerful and a fairly lean build. My Bauer customs seemed to have retained their integrity after 5 years, despite severe cosmetic wear. 

Not sure this is a predictable thing.  I have older TF9s and have had zero issues over several seasons with them.  I bought mine used in fact, but am guessing they are from the 1st 1 or 2 initial production runs.  My kid's Cat9s were bought almost a year after they hit the market.  Had issues within 6-8 months.  

[Leif 160]

Just now, krisdrum said:

Not sure this is a predictable thing.  I have older TF9s and have had zero issues over several seasons with them.  I bought mine used in fact, but am guessing they are from the 1st 1 or 2 initial production runs.  My kid's Cat9s were bought almost a year after they hit the market.  Had issues within 6-8 months.  

I will be happy if mine last two years as the performance and comfort are phenomenal. It is always possible your kid does something specific that damages them, but that obviously is still not acceptable. I had to pick up spare Shift runners from Finland as they are no longer made. A local shop also said they can retrofit the new Max Shift runners. 

[krisdrum 223]

34 minutes ago, Leif said:

I will be happy if mine last two years as the performance and comfort are phenomenal. It is always possible your kid does something specific that damages them, but that obviously is still not acceptable. I had to pick up spare Shift runners from Finland as they are no longer made. A local shop also said they can retrofit the new Max Shift runners. 

Max and Shift use same hole patterns, so they are a straight swap.  I did it on mine, as they were starting to squeak and blades were moving in them.  Haven't gotten around to grabbing Max steel yet, but that is the plan.  

[Sniper9 518]

1 hour ago, Leif said:

I will be happy if mine last two years as the performance and comfort are phenomenal. It is always possible your kid does something specific that damages them, but that obviously is still not acceptable. I had to pick up spare Shift runners from Finland as they are no longer made. A local shop also said they can retrofit the new Max Shift runners. 

I would've just gotten the max shift. They are better holders. More durable. I actually really enjoyed my max shift with jrz dlc steel.... I liked the added height and stiffness of the max shift holder vs the edge holders. 

[Leif 160]

1 hour ago, krisdrum said:

Max and Shift use same hole patterns, so they are a straight swap.  I did it on mine, as they were starting to squeak and blades were moving in them.  Haven't gotten around to grabbing Max steel yet, but that is the plan.  

Max Shift runners have an extra sticky up bit which means they don’t fit Shift holders. Shift runners do however fit Max Shift holders. Our local shop retrofits Max Shift runners, by modifying the holder or the runners. I just bought the correct runners while still available. 

I sharpen my blades weekly, but only one pass on my Sparx, runners last years as the Sparx takes off so little steel compared to hand sharpening. 

[krisdrum 223]

34 minutes ago, Leif said:

Max Shift runners have an extra sticky up bit which means they don’t fit Shift holders. Shift runners do however fit Max Shift holders. Our local shop retrofits Max Shift runners, by modifying the holder or the runners. I just bought the correct runners while still available. 

I sharpen my blades weekly, but only one pass on my Sparx, runners last years as the Sparx takes off so little steel compared to hand sharpening. 

Like @Sniper9 I think the added security of the Max Shift holders is worth it.  I found the original Shift holders sagged out a bit and allowed my runners to move around and make clicking noises in the holder.  The Max do this as well, but to a much less extent and it takes longer to get there.  My son's holders were getting there as the boot cracked.  But he puts a lot more wear and tear on the components than most.  

[Leif 160]

1 hour ago, krisdrum said:

Like @Sniper9 I think the added security of the Max Shift holders is worth it.  I found the original Shift holders sagged out a bit and allowed my runners to move around and make clicking noises in the holder.  The Max do this as well, but to a much less extent and it takes longer to get there.  My son's holders were getting there as the boot cracked.  But he puts a lot more wear and tear on the components than most.  

I had my Tuuks replaced after a few years on my Bauers, they had been loose for a long while. I have no idea if True are any worse, but clearly they thought fit to improve them. 

[krisdrum 223]

4 minutes ago, Leif said:

I had my Tuuks replaced after a few years on my Bauers, they had been loose for a long while. I have no idea if True are any worse, but clearly they thought fit to improve them. 

Really all they changed was the added "spike" behind the retention hook.  I think mostly as a reaction to the Shift holders being more prone to loosening up and allowing the steel to wiggle/rattle/click/move.

[Sniper9 518]

19 minutes ago, krisdrum said:

Really all they changed was the added "spike" behind the retention hook.  I think mostly as a reaction to the Shift holders being more prone to loosening up and allowing the steel to wiggle/rattle/click/move.

Durability in cracking too. 

[Sniper9 518]

2 hours ago, Leif said:

Max Shift runners have an extra sticky up bit which means they don’t fit Shift holders. Shift runners do however fit Max Shift holders. Our local shop retrofits Max Shift runners, by modifying the holder or the runners. I just bought the correct runners while still available. 

I sharpen my blades weekly, but only one pass on my Sparx, runners last years as the Sparx takes off so little steel compared to hand sharpening. 

Ok but you don't have the max shift runner. You have regular shift runner which will fit both holders.. so I don't now what the issue is. If you get the max shift holder for future you'll be able to use both regular shift runner and max shift runner with no modifications needed. 

Edited February 16 by Sniper9