Its all over by the crying

[Eazy_b97 1]

If you look at player drafted and developed by Edmonton, you wouldn't come up with a lot of names, but in the last few years Bill Guerin, Doug Weight, Mike Grier, Todd Marchant, Anson Carter have all departed via trade or free agency because Edmonton did not have the money to compete. They did not leave because the team failed to make the playoffs, and I believe Edmonton is always a dark horse in the playoff due to the fact they are a skating team.

If the current economic system continues Edmonton will surely lose players they have drafted and developed such as Ryan Smyth, Shane Horcoff, Ales Hemsky to name a few. Do you think Vancouver can keep the Sedin's when they become free agents? How about an American example can Atlanta keep Kovalchuk and Heately or even just one of them? Again, I am not suggesting the cap is the answer but something needs to be done.

Grier Marchant and Carter have all done little to nothing. Bostons been a 1 line team for the past 5 years and Guerin's gone to hell in Dallas. By having these players leave it makes room for others to come in and take their place.

Atlanta is a relatively new team, if they cannot afford 2 star players then they shouldn't have came to the NHL. I would love to see a contraction of teams because they should not be forced to make the game grow in areas which doesn't want it. Keep it at the ground level and don't accomodate these low budget teams. A salary cap will have Atlanta in the same situation as it will now. Top Salaries will not come down, the mid and lower range will. Those players you mentioned from Edmonton are overrated for their talents. Its like I said earlier, they are not stars and will not get star money regardless. They are not losing anything. Look at Sather for the majority of the 90's he was a god because he could get edmonton into the playoffs with a small budget, but when he gets a larger one he couldn't do anything. It was more about the low expectations and the fact its impossible to under-achieve with no expectations of greatness.

[Modo9 0]

Unlike Baseball, Basketball and even football, a franchise player in hockey is more likely to not suceed as such. Example: Yashin & Fedorov. I don't think the Franchise player clause is a big deal.

In the NFl players get signing bonuses. Signing bonuses not tied into the Cap. If the NFL can play under a Cap, so can the NHL. And the funny thing is more than half the players right now are playing under a Cap in some pseudo-minor industrial league; or playing for a country team, perhaps Russia for Kazan where life is, ... well, uh, from what I hear:Miserable

The players gotta suck it up and realize the Owners are so poorly disciplined as to not be able to control their own spending to the point where they are driving their business,"Entire Hockey Franchise", into the ground. Gretzky and Mario in their prime deserve 10 Million a year. No other player playing right now truly draws in enough revenue to support an 11 million dollar salary.

[Jim Bob 0]

Poor little small-market Edmonton made money last year. Small market Vancouver made money last year. A hard cap and hard floor will not help these teams in any way. The only thing that will make any type of difference is real revenue sharing.

Edmonton's problem is how they had to go about making money.

They had to let marquee player after marquee player walk because they couldn't offer them a competitive salary and remain econimically viable.

Plus, how many times have the Oilers been profitable over the past 5 or 6 seasons? Last year could turn into a mirage very quickly should the American dollar rally and return the value of the Canadian dollar back where it was 2 or 3 years ago.

Why should the Oilers have to depend on a strong Canadian dollar and letting marquee talent walk to make a profit?

[Jim Bob 0]

It's junk. Ryan Smyth is an AVERAGE HOCKEY PLAYER! Great guy, always gives 110%, but really not much more. Anson Carter (sorry JR), Comrie, like you said Weight. I like to refer to it as Steve Sullivan syndrome. Everyones point totals will go up with minutes. These are good hockey players, but 3rd liners on the top hockey teams. It's just they are in places where they can load up on points because they play key minutes. Because your a star on a team, doesn't mean your a star in the league.

When the Oilers lost Bill Guerin, CuJo, and Doug Weight they were All-Star calabre talents and the faces of the franchise.

Another good example of why the system needs to change is the firesale that the Pittsburgh Penguins have gone through recently with having to dump Jagr, Kovalev, Lang, and Straka for peanuts.

Heck, if Mario weren't the owner, he'd have been dealt a long time ago as well.

[Jim Bob 0]

Help those teams out with a Lux tax..

With a cap alone, it might curve salaries, but still not to the degree where thos teams can keep a lot of their "big" players. Not to say a cap shouldn't be done in some form, but a tax would directly help those teams.

Not the type of luxury tax that the NHLPA is offering up.

Their idea of a good system is what MLB has. And ask fans in KC, Pittsburgh, Montreal, and a bunch of other markets how well the system works.

Ask Oakland As fans how well it works when they see guys like Giambi, Tejada, Damon, and now Hudson and Moulder either get dealt for largely financial reasons or walk as FAs.

A system like MLBs will just continue the Haves vs Have Nots system. And that system really only works for fans in the big markets.

Just ask people in Pittsburgh whether they'd rather see the Penguins operate under the same system that the NFL has or the same system that MLB has and I think the answer will pretty one-sided towards the NFL system.

The same thing goes in KC.

Ask fans in Minnesota whether they'd rather have a system like the NBA has or MLB has.

A salary cap system will give "marquee player stability" to a lot more franchises than a luxury tax system will. A luxury tax will just further the large market vs snall market issues the NHL is currently dealing with.

[Jim Bob 0]

A hard cap won't solve all the problems with the NHL. Especially if the system that ulitmately gets implemented lacks meaningful revenue sharing.

However, a hard cap would solve a heck of a lot more problems than the NHLPA's system of a weak luxury tax and revenue sharing.

One of the major problems with the NHL today is the concentration of star players on a few select teams. A luxury tax will be far less effective at solving that issue than a hard cap will.

Just look at MLB. Every offseason you see the same big markets landing the majority of premium free agents.

The Houston Astros lost Carlos Beltran to the big market NY Mets. The Mets also add Pedro Martinez in free agency.

The NY Yankees are the team that can most afford to not only trade for Randy Johnson, but also give him a 2 year $32 million contract extension.

The Boston Red Sox get the best SS in FA.

The Atlanta Braves trade for Tim Hudson.

And how many "big names" sign with smaller market clubs?

You have to get to premier guys that had off seasons like Carlos Delgado and Magglio Ordonez before you get to major signings by so called small market clubs.

That consolidation of marquee talent in a few markets is a major issue in the NHL. And a luxury tax system won't change that trend from continuing in the future.

Besides, if a hard cap would only make the fat cats fatter and wouldn't help the small market teams, then you wouldn't see teams like Edmonton and Ottawa and Buffalo and Pittsburgh standing with Bettman in his "Cap or Bust" campaign. And you wouldn't see teams like Toronto pushing for the NHL to open up for business ASAP.

Besides, the NHLPA's argument isn't that a hard cap won't solve the NHL's problems as much as they try and say that it "isn't fair".

And personally, that makes me want to puke.

My heart would break if NHL players had to put up with a system that saw their earning potential capped at $1.3 million per player per year and would actually increase or decrease based on the overall health of the NHL.

Personally, if players insist on guaranteed contracts for themselves, then I believe it's fair if the owners want guaranteed profits as well.

[DrMolotov 0]

What scares me is that there are more ideas and better arguments here than anything I've heard from the NHL or NHLPA.

This season is doomed and the writing was on the wall two years ago and the sports media in Toronto and elsewhere predicted this scenario a long time ago. I don't think we'll see NHL hockey before next January and I think the rich will still get richer, the clutch and grabbing will get worse and its a shame because we all know what a great game this truly is.

Now the question is, how will you get your hockey fix?

Thank god for major junior, $10.00 to see the stars of tomorrow is the best deal in town.

[DrMolotov 0]

Daly did reveal the league and union had been in touch with mediators south of the border and met with them as recently as last week in Newark, N.J. from http://www.canada.com/sports/hockey/labour...56-8ca6b3a24815

No offence to my American friends but can we get some Canadians involved here...

[Chadd 916]

Daly did reveal the league and union had been in touch with mediators south of the border and met with them as recently as last week in Newark, N.J. from http://www.canada.com/sports/hockey/labour...56-8ca6b3a24815

No offence to my American friends but can we get some Canadians involved here...

Saskin mentioned it in the NHLPA press conference yesterday. Obviously he said the NHL didn't want them involved but the PA was more than willing to use their services.

Honestly, the issue is hard cap/no hard cap, there's no room for middle ground on this issue.

[Jim Bob 0]

Honestly, the issue is hard cap/no hard cap, there's no room for middle ground on this issue.

That's the key right there.

Mediation works well when there is the possibility for give and take by both sides to reach a middle ground.

The problem from the get go in this negotiation is that the major issue was a complete yes or no with each side staking out their position that they've been unwilling to move off of to date.

You can get mediators from the US, Canada, Switzerland, or wherever and that's unlikely to change the way this thing is going, IMO.

Right now, the next hope is for a quick resolution will be getting an impasse declared and replacement players in place. If that doesn't happen, then this could drag on at least into 2006 and you could see another season lost due to this madness.

[Chadd 916]

Honestly, the issue is hard cap/no hard cap, there's no room for middle ground on this issue.

That's the key right there.

Mediation works well when there is the possibility for give and take by both sides to reach a middle ground.

The problem from the get go in this negotiation is that the major issue was a complete yes or no with each side staking out their position that they've been unwilling to move off of to date.

You can get mediators from the US, Canada, Switzerland, or wherever and that's unlikely to change the way this thing is going, IMO.

Right now, the next hope is for a quick resolution will be getting an impasse declared and replacement players in place. If that doesn't happen, then this could drag on at least into 2006 and you could see another season lost due to this madness.

No way an Impasse can be declared until September as I understand it, though I'm certainly no labor law expert.

The NHLPA would quickly accept a $100M cap and the League would accept a luxury tax of $4 on every $1 over $20M. There has to be a middle ground that both will accept, though neither will be happy about.

[Jim Bob 0]

No way an Impasse can be declared until September as I understand it, though I'm certainly no labor law expert.

The NHLPA would quickly accept a $100M cap and the League would accept a luxury tax of $4 on every $1 over $20M. There has to be a middle ground that both will accept, though neither will be happy about.

Getting a deal done in September will be quick.

If the season is cancelled there will be no pressure on either side to cave over the summer. That means that meaningful talks aren't likely to start until September, October, or even as late as November or December when both sides have lost some more money and the financial pressure to get a deal done is a little more real.

And as far as a middleground goes, I doubt you'll see it if the NHLPA is unwilling to even negotiate off of the NHL's last offer.

Granted, the NHL's last offer needs some major tweaks. The first of which would be putting the NHLPA's revenue sharing plan back in to "their system" that is the starting point of the new CBA.

Then they'd have to talk about a phasing in period and hash out what triggers both sides could live with.

They might even have to change what happens if the triggers are tripped. One suggestion I'd make would be that rather than moving to a hard cap, the CBA just gets blown up and they can start this little dance all over again.

However, if the NHLPA is unwilling to even negotiate off of the NHL's latest offer, I can't see any sort of middle ground being attained in the near future.