Hi-Lo?

[Bodak1340 0]

I heard the skates that are now hi-lo such as the tour red max are faster than skates that are hi-lo. Is this true?

[mik3 1]

there's so many other factors to add in. weight, wheels, bearings, skating style. equipment doesn't make the player, the player makes the equipment.

[teamlabeda 1]

The current frame on the Tour skates is a Labeda Hum'er an all 80mm set-up. What you see in their ads is Lo-Boy technology not Hi-Lo which is the standard 80/72 wheel set-up. Lo-Boy is the chanel designed in the boots sole allowing the 80mm wheels to recess. This design combined with the Hum-er frame allows the boot and frame to be as low as most Hi-Lo set-ups which contributes to great agility while increasing grip and speed. While the speed is awesome the grip is what really impresses!

[cbettner66 0]

I heard the skates that are now hi-lo such as the tour red max are faster than skates that are hi-lo. Is this true?

i think he meant "I heard the skates that are not hi-lo such as the tour red max..."

[Bodak1340 0]

I heard the skates that are now hi-lo such as the tour red max are faster than skates that are hi-lo.  Is this true?

i think he meant "I heard the skates that are not hi-lo such as the tour red max..."

yea i did. sorry

[SailRace 1]

As mik3 said, there are so many factors to consider. I have a set of Tour Beemers, and i absolutley love them. I doubt i will ever go back to a Hi-Lo setup. They have the right combination of comfort, speed and grip for my style and skating.

However, there are guys out there that can and do skate circles around me, because they are better skaters, fastert, whatever.....and many if not most of them use Hi-Lo setups. Does that make their setup faster or slower? NO. They would skate around me regardless of what equipment we use.

If you want to skate faster, take some power or speed skating lessons to learn propoer technique and stride. Then worry about which skates best fit your style.

[teamlabeda 1]

Okay then, if you are just asking if the Hum'er all 80 is faster than the Hi/Lo than the answer is YES!!! Considerably faster!

[JR Boucicaut 3801]

Flat frames will be faster than combination setups...think speed skating.

[gee2626 0]

Okay then, if you are just asking if the Hum'er all 80 is faster than the Hi/Lo than the answer is YES!!! Considerably faster!

i would agree... i love my hum'er frame... won't go back to my old hi-lo

[SailRace 1]

JR, that comparison to speed skates is a little unfair.

Speed skates have 5 wheels, all large diameter and flat frames, but they are for all out speed over distance. The increased diameter and having more wheels on the gruond helps to reduce rolling friction, so for speed skaters, it makes sense.

In hockey, you wouldn't want all the same characteristics. Just think about trying to accelerate or stop with those things. What labeda has done is make a fantastic sysmte that still allows them to keep the center of gravity low on the skate, thus allowing for better maneuverability and agility.

Again, i use and love the beemers, but I think Bodak (OP) might be a little misguided if he thinks he will automaitcally be faster than than everyone else simply because he has the hum'mer chassis. There are so many other contributing factors to speed and skill, and i just didn't want to lead him astray.

[JR Boucicaut 3801]

SailRace -

I know that. I did play competitive RH ya know :)

[chrisg19 5]

Again, i use and love the beemers, but I think Bodak (OP) might be a little misguided if he thinks he will automaitcally be faster than than everyone else simply because he has the hum'mer chassis. There are so many other contributing factors to speed and skill, and i just didn't want to lead him astray

While I absolutely agree with the above, maybe the question that should have been asked is - Would a skater using either a Hi-Lo, or Hummer chassis, see a noticeable difference in speed for themselves, between the two? Not that either will make that same skater faster than someone else on whatever set up.

I have never used the Hummer chassis, but from what I can gather, while it may not make me faster than someone else (stride, training technique, etc.), I would see a diiference in my speed as compared to if I were skating with Hi-Lo's.

That seems to be the gist...

chris

[teamlabeda 1]

You would be right on Chris! The all 80 Hum'er would make any particluar individual faster than if he were comparing the skating difference to the Hi/Lo.

[SailRace 1]

SailRace -

I know that. I did play competitive RH ya know :)

I wasn't directing that so much at you, JR as i was at the guy asking the question.

I just pointed you out becasue you made the first comparison. You have proven your knowledge of the game and equipment time and time again....and i have nothing but respect for your opinion on said items.

I just didn't want the guy getting too misdirected. If he's expeting the Tour skate/labeda frame to automatically make him faster than everyone out there, he's going to be disappointed.

[SailRace 1]

You would be right on Chris! The all 80 Hum'er would make any particluar individual faster than if he were comparing the skating difference to the Hi/Lo.

Again, TeamLabeda, i would caution in making such sweeping statements as this. I think that might be a little biased.

If one's skating style is not optimal, or they are not used to the feel or abilities of the hum'er frame, they may not see any speed advantage to the frame. There are just too many variables to make that sort of huge generalization.

I may be the type of skater who uses short, choppy strides to "hustle" down the court, rather than using a longer, more powerful true power stride. If this is the case, then the Hi-Lo might actually make me a little faster, because the energy needed to get the 4 larger wheels rolling on the hum'er is never realized due to the inefficiency in my stride.

Vice versa is of course true. If you have a solid stride and good skating form, you should see a benefit in TOP END speed of the all 80mm hum'er chassis.

I will also caution this....how many minutes on average are you actually skating at full-on top speed? That right there can be a determining factor as well.

I'm not trying to bring anyone down, just trying to show all sides to the coin, that as of yet, i think is still up for debate.

[mik3 1]

ding ding, that's where it's great to compare them to speed skating. you're going in laps like that, there's no stop...go...change direction...quick acceleration...stop...repeat

[JR Boucicaut 3801]

I hear ya, SailRace...

For instance, I always preferred a flat frame. However, you lose your maneuverability going with the flat frame...

[teamlabeda 1]

While I understand your argument you must really understand the benefits of the Hum'er frame on the Tour boot. It is not only for top end speed, the larger wheels create more roll which keeps speed up when coasting or just striding. The recessed 80's allow the height to be comparable to the Hi/Lo's which dictate maneuverabilty and agility. If you are a quick choppy type of skater you would still benefit from the 80's in that you would have reduced toe slip from the 80 versus the 72mm front wheel maximizing the energy per stride then increasing overall quickness and speed. The only way you would initially struggle with the all 80mm would be if your foot size does not allow the frame to fit properly under your boot, there would then be an adjustment time from a Hi/Lo. This would still be just an adjustment but would require a couple weeks of dedication to get comfortable. Once comfortable you would never look back!

[SailRace 1]

While I understand your argument you must really understand the benefits of the Hum'er frame on the Tour boot. It is not only for top end speed, the larger wheels create more roll which keeps speed up when coasting or just striding. The recessed 80's allow the height to be comparable to the Hi/Lo's which dictate maneuverabilty and agility. If you are a quick choppy type of skater you would still benefit from the 80's in that you would have reduced toe slip from the 80 versus the 72mm front wheel maximizing the energy per stride then increasing overall quickness and speed. The only way you would initially struggle with the all 80mm would be if your foot size does not allow the frame to fit properly under your boot, there would then be an adjustment time from a Hi/Lo. This would still be just an adjustment but would require a couple weeks of dedication to get comfortable. Once comfortable you would never look back!

And i understand what you're saying regarding the capabilities of a very very good frame. I didn't not even mean to imply that the Hum'er wasn't a fantastic piece of equipment. As i have stated, i own them, and love them.

I just want to make sure that when someone posts a question, they are given all sides of the story. You work for a company that is trying to make a profit, and i can't blame you for being excited about the product you sell, but there are always other sides to an argument, and i was just trying to educate this person on both sides.

I for one, am sold on the benfits of the Hum'er. I will never buy another Hi-Lo set up again, becasue they work for me. But I'm sure there are those out there that have tried it and not felt the same way. Shouldn't a consumer be educated first about what they are buying. That's all i was trying to get across.

Damn, all this talk has me very excited for my game tonight.....

[teamlabeda 1]

I am trying to have people understand the skate from all perspectives and styles. I do understand the biased concerns but I do believe in the product whole heartedly. Thank you for your replies and good luck in your game tonight Sailrace!

[MDE3 0]

I have two words...."John Pinheiro"....If you have never seen this guy play, or played against him, then you have missed a real treat....

John is possibly..no strike the "possibly".....John IS the most agile skater I have watched in "pro inline" whether PIHA, XIHL, MLRH, Tournament Pro. He is like the offspring of Speedy Gonzales mated to the Eveready Bunny....He is in constant motion from full stop to full start, whirling and spinning at the same time...Extremely entertaining player to watch, almost impossible to hit in full contact and almost impossible to stop otherwise in the non contact game..

This season he has switched over to the Beemers...He led the scoring in the XIHL in a runaway earlier this season, and is busy doing the same thing now in PIHA I believe..based on the rumours as the official stats are not yet posted.

I can assure you that having watched him play for two seasons on HiLo's and then this season on Beemers, the Beemers have done nothing to impede this guy's agility....He is farther ahead in the scoring now than he ever was when playing on the HiLo's...Is there a relationship?.....Who knows?.....All I can say, is that he certainly did not get any worse lol.....

I only mention this because if you want a "model of agility" this is the guy....and all those arguments about "reduced agility" with the Hum'er frame become moot when you see this guy play.

PS...(I hope my son doesn't read this.....) :(

[mik3 1]

When you're at John P's level, you can play in a pair of tour wizards and score about 4 points a game.

Now, Joe Schmo playing house league in Aberdeen will probably never notice any difference between hi-los and a recessed flat chassis. And to be honest, a skater of John's level probably doesn't feel a really huge increase or decrease in agility switching between the two.

[MDE3 0]

My own experience with high level players is that they get more fussy about their equipment as they move up the feed chain, not less....

Even though their talent can overcome significant adversity, most are pretty cognizant of what feels right and what does not....You do not get that "in-tune" with your feet, and not notice the difference in skates, nor do you stay with something which does not work....because you do not have to. Even if you are sponsored, the stock products you are required to wear will be talored to fit, altered, or exchanged for another model, if you say you need this...Most of the skate companies are pretty sensitive to the needs of their "stars" when it comes to these things.

All that said, I also believe from information I have through other personal contacts, that John's use of the Beemers, was most likely by choice, and not by sponsorship agreement.

[malcb33 97]

I personally love the hummer frame like most other people that have tried them. I find that they have a slightly longer wheel base oposed to a hi-lo frame making them slightly less agile than the hi-lo frame. But, I also find that the added grip from the larger wheels keeps frames on par with a hi-lo( hi-lo better agility, hummer more grip). The biggest advantage with the hummer frame for me is that the all 80mm set up allows me to cruze around longer with out loosing speed. This for me does not equal a notisable higher end speed, but a higher consistant speed around the court without skating as much. This for me puts the hummer frame above all other frames! Well done Labeda!!!! :D :P

[MDE3 0]

The biggest gain aside from reduced effort to maintain speed, is the added grip for push off...this makes a two step acceleration more effective..which is at least as important as "agility"....In addition you can learn to be as "agile" on the Hum'er frame as on the HiLo frame...but it will take a bit more practice...so ultimately there are only "up sides" to the chassis.

In the sense the added grip will net better acceleration...you could claim the Hum'er makes you "faster"..That's assuming you have sufficient leg drive to overcome the grip of the 72 mm wheels on a HiLO chassis to begin with..... :P