CigarScott

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CCM has been in skate-making business for over a century and Bauer for over 90 years so I expect them to be flawless whereas before November 2016, VH was a tiny, niche company where the owner was making skates in his basement 3-4 years ago, so I knew and accepted that they wouldn’t be as refined as the Big Two. Hell, True Hockey skates could look like crappy, high school shop class projects for all I care if they are comfortable, stiff enough for my weight, and help with my pronation. There are pros and cons to all three options. Bauer and CCM are well-known brands that virtually everyone that plays or has played hockey has heard of and trusts. True is a small company when compared to them and are better known for their golf club shafts that a lot of the general hockey public, especially non-gear nerds have never heard of. Bauer and CCM has far more fit centers where you can order customs. There is a Bauer and CCM fit center about 2.5 hours from where I live in Birmingham; True doesn’t have one within 500 miles of where I live. I realize that I live in a bit of a hockey desert but there is nowhere, that I’m aware of in Tennessee, Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, South Carolina, Kentucky, Arkansas, and Louisiana where you can be fitted for True skates so unless you can get outside of this large geographic footprint to get fitted, they’re not available to a good chunk of the US and I’m sure there are a lot of other gaps in the US where hockey players can’t get fitted for them. The pros of True is that they’re a lot cheaper than Bauer and CCM: Bauer by $150 and CCM by $200. I would have considered Bauer but the scan results that I got were so far off that I wouldn’t trust my skates to come close to fitting and I thought my feet scanned a little small with my CCM results plus I had a bit of sticker shock with them. If I could have gotten a boot-only order from CCM where I could have installed LS Edge’s on them then I may have gone that route, especially if the costs were relatively comparable to True’s boot-only option. True is also known for its customer service. If I had these problems with a custom Bauer or CCM skate, I would be SOL unless I knew someone. I’m not sure what the complete fascination is with skate weight. No one wants cinder blocks on their feet but If 100g per skate is unbearable for you, then don’t skip leg day. 😊 As IP6Freely stated above, people like us that are regularly on this site and others like it are a tiny subset of hockey players, especially amongst adults. Most people who are True customers that are on here are the small percentage who had problems or fellow gear nerds who want to tell everyone how great their feet finally feel. Most people are in the middle and aren't on these types of websites. Hell, half the guys I see at my rink are rocking gear from companies that no longer exist or the stuff that looks like it was something that Gretzky played with, so they don’t really care about the latest brands and innovations until something breaks on them and then most of the time, they put price and value ahead of whatever the latest and greatest tech is or hot new brand is.

He's certainly taller than me but I have a good 100 lbs on him. Factor that in with giant, weird-shaped feet and pronation issues and you have me... 🙂

I've talked to a handful of shop managers/owners who sell True skates and they said in their observations that 90-95% of skates work for the customer the first time around so yeah, it wouldn't be practical for them to make dozens of sample skates for each retailer to try on, especially when you market yourselves as a true custom skate that doesn't care about standard sizes.

When it comes straight for the horse's mouth, I would assume that it is true. 🙂 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNd8ttvFT0k&t=22s

My True scan was done right. I've watched countless videos on Youtube on how it was done so I could make sure it was done right. It's not just an issue with True's fitting process, as I've stated earlier in this thread, Bauer and CCM both gave me weird results, with Bauer's being really wonky.

Yes, he's huge for a pro hockey player but he's tiny next to me. As he's an NHL player and based in Winnipeg, he was fitted in-person by Rob and probably had to have tweaks done on them until he actually skated in them in an actual game.

Right, when making a custom product like a skate and relying on 3D scans being done by vendors instead of being physically measured by company employees there is going to be a certain percentage of skates that have issues. True seems to be doing all that they can to make things right, which is what matters. They have to set themselves apart from the Big 2 as they enter the readily-available custom skate game. I don't what else Chase at Pure Hockey or I could have done to convey my goofy issues. I offered to make 3D molds of my feet and ship them to Winnipeg but I was told that I couldn't do that. From all accounts that I've heard, Rob is a great guy and I have no concern about there being a happy ending.

Oh, I kicked my heels back as far back as I could, my heels were red as hell after baking due to how tight it was in the heels. I don't think these scanners take into account foot shape as I may only be the length of an 11 but I need a 12 due to how wide my toes go out there being almost no curve in my toes; I have almost truly rectangular feet. Factor in my messed up right ankle where I pronate in skates and supinate in shoes, I had to go custom if I was ever going to become a decent skater. They took photos of my feet from all angles, marked my hotspot areas, took photos of my feet in True's Brannock-like device so there was scale and even took photos of the foot tracings that I made with measurements on them that I shipped to the shop with my skates so they knew how much stretching they would have to do when they widened my skates. I was 3D scanned for my True's so there isn't much that they could have done to fit me wrong. It could also be that True and the other companies don't have a lot of experience in making skate comfortable for larger people. A really snug skate for someone that is 5'10" and 180 lbs can be too tight and put too much pressure around the foot to someone that is 6'5" and weighs twice that.

Good news: Rob emailed me back and they're going to make me a new pair. I'll let you all know how the new pair is once they show up.

I don’t think anyone here wants this thread about True skates deviating into a thread about podiatry but I guess it relates to True skates so I’ll keep posting. 😊 As IP6Freely and Nicholas have said, they are known to have done modifications for people with screwy feet and have bragged about them in news interviews that I’ve seen online. I also figured that since VH/True was known for their customer service and being a small operation compared to Bauer & CCM, that they would be better able and more willing to do modifications which is the main reason that I went with them over the other two. The weird thing is that barefoot or in flip flops, I’m perfectly fine and don’t feel any pain or discomfort in my feet or calves but when I put on a pair of shoes off-the-shelf, I have pain in the outside edge of my right foot and my Achilles tendon in my right calf kills me. After I got my first set of skates and had done handful of public sessions, I had a podiatrist make me a set of skate orthotics for my skates and after wearing them a handful of times, I started having the opposite problem and started pronating badly in the skates and the combination of my weight and $200 skates, there wasn’t enough stiffness in the boot for me. After skating for a while, my shoe orthotics had to be adjusted since I wasn’t supinating as badly. I went to my orthotist and told him what was going on, he thought I was BS’ing him, but he tested me and sure enough, he had to adjust my orthotics since I wasn’t supinating nearly as badly as before when wearing shoes. I bought a pair of Super Feet which helped some but was still having pain in the ball of my right foot, so I got some metatarsal pads to put on top of my Super Feet, which helped somewhat but I still had to wear toe caps in both feet, which I think is more of a volume/space issue in the toe box than pronation issue due to the weird shape of my feet as they aren’t comfortable to wear sitting down without any weight put on them as well as the bunion sleeves. Even if pronating for me wasn’t an issue, the skates are too tight and don’t have enough room in the toe box and enough vertical volume. They are uncomfortable to have them on laced up while sitting down and not putting any weight on my feet. Since I was advised to remove the foam spacer in the toe cap, there is zero padding in that area and my toes and bunions have hard plastic or whatever the material is digging into them, even after rebaking doing the tissue technique. I don’t doubt what Vet88 is saying at all but the reality for me is that I live in Alabama and there is nowhere within a day’s drive that I can have shims installed, get holders moved, etc. The one decent LHS in Atlanta I don’t believe can do either thing and after their experience dealing with VH after True bought them, I doubt they would even touch them. That’s why I ideally would want larger skates with more volume in them for footbeds or Bauer Speed Plates as well as extra padding around the bunion and toe box, in general. I emailed them yesterday with my issues but have yet to hear back. We all read and hear the stories of getting custom skates, regardless of manufacturer and that they’re either an improvement of some kind or outright the most comfortable footwear the person owns but these make me want to go back to my $200 N7000’s… ☹

How do I reach out to Rob?

I got scanned about 4pm. I'm hesitant to do anything with insoles as I have plantar fasciitis in my left heel and have pronation/supination issues in my right foot which I think causes me to put my weight on the ball of my foot and in turn push my big toe and bunion into the side of the skates. I have a really flat left foot and my right has a little arch so I'm not super concerned about the arch changing by messing with insoles. I emailed back and forth with True and they just told me to rebake after doing the tissue technique so it seems like they're trying to avoid having to make me a new skate(s).

I'll weigh them tonight when I get home but they'll weigh a ton as I have giant feet with 306mm holders so I don't know what value their weights will have to you. I skated in them last night after the adjustments and rebaking and it was worse than when I skated Tuesday. My bunions on my right foot hurt worse than before even before stepping on the ice; I had to go back and put my bunion sleeve on my right foot and my gel toe cap things on both big toes. The ball of my right foot hurt when it either didn't or not enough to notice on Tuesday; perhaps due to me removing the red insoles? I have really wide feet and need deep toe box (which makes buying shoes fun) and I don't know what else can be done to make these feel comfortable. I did the tissue technique, removed the red footbeds in each to get more volume, removed the foam in the toe box to get more room, moved back the tongue and it made things worse. The front halves of both of my feet went numb after 30-45 minutes on the ice even with taking a knee or sitting on the bench for breaks. Nicholas or anyone else, have you tried the new CCM insoles in your True skates? I saw that you tried the old Speed Plates in yours but was curious what you found worked from the aftermarket options. I'm tempted to pull my Superfeet with the added metatarsal pads out of my old skates and try them in these; thoughts? I don't know what else to do. The areas that I have pain and volume issues are in the harder toe cap area. I don't know how you can just create more space in those areas since you typically can't punch those areas out. I made it abundantly clear when I got fitted that I had these issues and Chase at Pure Hockey notated everything and did all that he could to inform True of these issues. I spent the money on customs do I wouldn't have to keep wearing all kinds of pads on my feet and have to keep playing MacGyver with my skates so I'm a bit frustrated right now.

No, just these standard Bauer socks: https://www.hockeymonkey.com/catalog/product/view/id/338462

That's what mine look like, too.

So my skates finally showed up Monday. I went to the rink pro shop to bake them and without any tweaking the skates weren't real pleasant to me overall. The bottom of my feet felt great as I finally have a skate that accommodate my flat feet but the heel was too tight, my toes were digging into the cap of the skates, my bunions and side of my big toes were digging into the sides of the toe cap, even after notating issues with them on photos when I got scanned and the top of the skates were digging on the top of my feet down by the toes. After I emailing with True and skating on them in a stick & puck last night, I removed the red foot bed to add more volume, had my better half and her smaller hands remove the pads in the toe box, adjusted the tongue, did the tissue method on my bunions, big toes, and the top of the toes then rebaked them last night at home. I have hockey tonight and will know more as how much this helps. Even with the pain and discomfort last night, I noticed a huge improvement in forward flex, speed, and turn radius. I don't know if this is more due to the Step Steel being a huge improvement over the stock steel in the Nexus N7000, the boot design, or a combination of the two but I think, assuming I can get the pain and discomfort issues worked out, that it was a good purchase for me.

@IPv6Freely may also be correct with with the idea that the True boots may help with body alignment. I have trouble doing hockey stops on my right side in my current skates due to the pronation issues that I have in my right foot. I'm hoping that the new skates keep my foot and ankle in better alignment so I can use my right outside edge better. Could be a combination of better steel/edges and better foot alignment as to why you don't need as sharp of an edge on True skates?

Might also be due to upgrading from stock Bauer/CCM steel to Step. My True's show up Monday so I will know for sure next week. 🙂

I believe 10 minutes per skate at 180 will be fine from what I've read and watched. I think your skates will have to sit 12-24 hours after rebaking so are you doing it after you hit the ice tonight?

Ah, makes sense. I would figure they could bring them in as "Warrior by Graf" or something like that to keep the name but let people know that they were Graf skates or at the very least buy the equipment so they could make their own unique skates.

You never know. If some private equity firm or hedge fund made True an offer that they couldn't refuse, I'm sure they'd listen. I was surprised that Warrior didn't pursue Graf; Warrior has New Balance backing so I'm sure they would have had no problem affording it. I just find it ironic that the hockey brand owned by a shoe company doesn't make shoes/boots for their own sport. 🙂

I've been in the lacrosse world for 25+ years as a player and fan and remember when Brine and STX were the only two companies everyone knew about; the sport's Bauer & CCM. Yes, STX is a big name in the sport and until Brine was bought by Warrior, was probably the biggest or not far behind being the biggest. Now with Warrior owning Brine, they're probably a distant #2. STX was innovative in introducing plastic heads and aluminum shafts so they have a good track record of innovation but others came along, like Warrior that had really good marketing in the sport and did their own innovation, introducing titanium shafts to lacrosse, and leapfrogged them, it seems. Paul Rabil's podcast with Dave Morrow was quite interesting if you want to hear more about Warrior's history. Yes, lacrosse is leapfrogging hockey but that is due to people not having to know how to ice skate or be in proximity to an ice rink and I think US Lacrosse has done a great job of expanding the sport so it's not only prep school kids in New England playing anymore. Any school or public park that can accommodate soccer or football can accommodate lacrosse. I think a lot of these companies that are big in other sports are seeing that it's harder to break into hockey than they thought. STX is a small niche player in the market and outside of Hockey Monkey's HQ, I have never seen a hockey shop stock any of their gear for me to actually put my hands on. Until STX gets into the helmet and skate game, they will only be a small, niche player. Until Warrior gets in the skate game, they'll be a distant #3 to Bauer & CCM. True has been big in golf forever and I guess decided to branch out after seeing what is going on with golf and participation rates dropping, etc. True took the plunge into skates by buying VH but until they get helmets, offer uniforms, and all the other stuff and can increase their dealer network, they'll be a niche player. True is headquartered in Memphis and the closest dealer that I'm aware of is in St. Louis. I, along with probably everyone on here, want to see more players in the market and hope that STX, Warrior, True, etc. can all carve out a piece of the pie but I'm not sure going DTC will work long term if they have no presence in LHS where employees are demonstrating their gear to players, parents, etc; they may go the way of Tackla. We'll see...

https://www.hockeymonkey.com/accessories/accessories-skate/components/step-steel-hockey-runner-stmako-cxn-1-pair.html

That's a good question. I didn't get the shot blockers in mine and they didn't ask for what stiffness level that you want. They did ask for my weight so perhaps they adjust the stiffness to your weight, ex: someone weighing 275 lbs gets a much stiffer skate than someone that weighs 175 lbs?