KelpFries

@z1ggy Thanks! I'll throw a pic up in the morning.

This is a bit of an older thread, but I figured i'd throw my 2 cents in as i've frustratingly dealt with over-pronation and maybe someone might read this and it may help them. I am by no means an expert, i'm not an podiatrist either, but what I do have is experience with just this type of thing. I've thrown money around and wasted time trying to overcome it. I've only been skating for about 9 or 10 months now, and the first few months were ridiculously infuriating, to the point where I was going to give up my dream of being able to skate well enough to play some hockey because I was not getting anywhere with my learning process and was being ridiculously limited in my ability to do certain things because I just could not gain an outside edge, my skates were just leaning inward too much. So here's what I learned in my trials and tribulations. There are 2 things that can help with over-pronation, a short term fix and a long term fix, and I would recommend both. The long term fix is a second on the advice from Vet88 who helped me along the way and gave some great advice just as he's done in this thread. I still use a short term fix when playing in games, but use the long term fix doing practice skates. 1) Short term: Wedges and inserts. I must have read a million threads and a million articles on over-pronation and fixes for it for ice skating. However, every single thing I read related to wedges and insoles were completely wrong. I even read an article where one bloke was going into detail on how to create wedges out of a flip flop to fix over-pronation in a skate, and it was completely wrong missing the point of the mechanics. I spent hundreds or even thousands for wedges, inserts and even $700 for custom orthotics and all of these not only did not help fix my pronation, they made it worse. It's about the mechanics of an ice skate. You can help with pronation by using inserts and wedges designed for over-pronation, but only in a shoe or trainer. In a shoe your foot lays flat, in a shoe with a flat sole, on ground that is flat, Your shoe is not going to rock from side to side, it remains flat, so if you have an insole in your shoe that raises the arch in your foot, it's going to raise your foot all the time and will help alleviate issues with over-pronation. And I do recommend inserts or wedges in shoes or trainers for anyone dealing with a pronation problem, especially if the pronation is causing foot pain. However, in a skate, you do not have a flat sole resting on solid ground, you have a thin piece of steel that will allow your foot to rock side to side. Your foot is going to be in the position it wants to be in when you put pressure on the skate. If you have over-pronation your foot is going to cause the skate to rock inwards because your foot wants to be in a specific position when you put pressure on it. Now add an insole or wedge that is trying to raise the inside of your foot. When you put pressure down on the skate, your foot is still going to want to be in a specific position regardless of the insert or wedge underneath it, and because the skate can rock from side to side, when you plant your foot it will force itself into the position it wants to be in and will only cause to skate to rock inwards even more and you have now exacerbated your pronation issue. In a skate, for the short term as a quick fix, you need to deal with over-pronation from a wedge and insole perspective as over-supination. I still use wedges that I created in my skate, but only during games and will continue until I have reached a point that I do not need them anymore, which is rapidly approaching, however, I use the wedges as if I was trying to fix an over-supination problem, on the outside of the foot. I created wedges to lift the outside of my foot in the skate. This may sound silly and counterintuitive, but it's about the mechanics of a skate. I know that my foot will force itself into a position it wants to be in. By adding wedges to the outside of my foot in the skate my foot still goes into the position it wants to be in, but now because of the wedges my skate tilts outwards and allows the blade to sit squarely on the ice and allows me to gain an outside edge. No matter what you do, your foot will still position itself in the way it is naturally going to be regardless of what position the skate is in. With wedges or inserts it's not a matter of fixing the over-pronation, that's just not happening with wedges, inserts or even insoles, it's a matter of getting the skate into the position it needs to be relative to the position of the foot inside it. Think of it like this, your foot will always remain in the same position relative to the ice, with over-pronation it will be tilted inwards on an angle relative to the ice surface, you can't change this short term. The only thing you can do is try to get the skate around your foot to be positioned differently. If you use pronation wedges or insoles you're not going to change the position of your foot, you'll only change the position of the skate around your foot, so if you use pronation wedges or inserts on the inside of your foot, you'll only push the skate inwards more and your problem will be even worse. With wedges or insoles for the outside of your foot, again, you're not going to change the position of your foot relative to the ice, but what it will do is change the position of the skate to make the skate lie more outwards which will help align the skate to the ice. You can also accomplish this by shimming, which would move the runner into a position square to the ice. I personally never went for this route though simply because I felt it would hinder me in the long term because the whole boot is still in a rocked inward position, only the runner is square. And also moving the holder laterally is an option, but I also never wanted to do this either because I wasn't comfortable having holes drilled into my skate or having the center of gravity moved inward relative to my foot. With trial and error and different thicknesses, I created an insert (I formed one out of plastic and tapered so I cannot feel it) for the outside of my foot that gave me the correct adjustments I needed in order to be able to gain an outside edge and get my skates into the correct position. As I have been strengthening I have been grinding the edge down thinner and thinner as needed. 2) Long term: Ankle and arch strengthening. I took the excellent advice from Vet88 and have been gradually skating with eyelets open during my practice skates, i'm now down to 4 open eyelets and damn is it hard. But it does work wonders. I do this as much as possible, along with doing arch strengthening exercises constantly where I scrunch up my toes which brings up the arch in my foot, hold it for 5 seconds and release for 5 seconds, hold for 5 seconds, release for 5 seconds. I do this over and over, all day long. These 2 things have made a massive impact on my pronation problems. I hope that no one goes through what I went through, especially beginners, even at my old fart age, because this is a great game with great people and for anyone that has to deal with pronation issues it can be an extremely frustrating problem, so frustrating that some people my actually just give up, just as I almost did, and they'd be missing out on the fun of this wonderful game. One other thing, the skates you wear are also very important when you have an over-pronation issue. If your skates are loose in anyway, it will cause the skate to roll inwards more. Make sure you try on every skate you can and make sure they are snug, not cripplingly tight, but snug enough so that your foot does not move around in them. I drove the sales guy crazy when buying my latest pair of skates, absolutely crazy. I was trying on skates for hours. Every line from both Bauer and CCM. Different sizes. I would try a size and style and walk around for 30 minutes, getting into my hockey stance, walking around in a hockey stance, yes I was the crazy old fart walking around in skates crouched down like I was mental, I didn't care. It's a lot of money to plonk down and the most important piece of equipment you'll buy. I finally settled on CCM Ribcor's for a couple of reasons. Firstly, man oh man are they comfortable, like slippers. Locked my heel in really nicely, zero pain or foot aches from day one. Secondly, CCM's 90 day return policy. Can't go wrong, don't like them, bring them back. Thirdly, Ribcor's have great lateral stiffness which helps with pronation, however, they have unbelievable forward flex, even when all of the eyelets are tied. This helps my pronation immensely because I could never tie the top eyelet in my other Bauer Supremes as there was no forward flex when tied all the way up to the top and I would constantly feel as though I was on my heels. In my Ribcor's I can flex forward all the way and get my hockey stance down without any effort while still having great ankle support from having the boot tied all the way up.

I had been suffering from the exact same pain and fatigue problems and I tried everything from multiple bakes, Superfeet, heel lifts, R-Fit, even custom insoles along with trying to correct a pronation problem. None of it worked, in fact everything I tried made it worse. The pain was sometimes so bad i'd have to take my skates off, let my feet breath for 5 minutes and put them back on. Loose laces, tight laces, didn't matter, I had bad foot pain on the bottom of my feet from heel to balls. As a beginner 8 months ago I didn't know the first thing about skates and proper fitting so I relied on the guy at the LHS where I purchased my skates. Looking back now, I have a very strong feeling the guy was just trying to push the skates I was trying on because a week after I bought them they went from $389 to $209, an no, the guy didn't want to hear it when I went back a week later to complain about this and the pain I was having. The skates I bought were Bauer Supreme S27 7.5D's. I asked about others like Vapors and CCM's but he just kept saying nah this is what you want. A newb I trusted in his opinion. I'd had enough and through reading many posts on here and elsewhere I was convinced the skates were the wrong size. Now that i've got past the walker stage and am able to play a bit of hockey I figured i'd go elsewhere and try on every skate I could and try to get a better fitting. Anyway, I went to Monkey Sports in Woodbridge NJ and I can't give these guys enough props. They put me on each of the scanners, both Bauer and CCM, 3 times. The Bauer came up with Vapors 7EE as the recommended skates, not Supremes. CCM came up with 7EE jetspeeds. I tried them both, very nice, but I wanted to try on every goddamn skate they had and I did and the guy I worked with was more than happy to let me. He manually measured me a couple of times as well. I nailed it down to Vapors and Ribcors, both 7EE. The guy said lets bake them and see before you decide. They baked them! I hadn't even paid any money yet! Great store. Anyway, I ended up getting the Ribcor's. They were so comfy like a fluffy bunny slipper, and after the guy baked them and I sat in them for 20 minutes then walked around for 10 minutes they were unbelievably comfy. I also chose the Ribcor's over the Vapors because of CCM's 90 day policy, because who knows how they would feel after being on the ice with them for an hour. At least if I skated with them for a week and didn't like them I could just return them and pick something else. I have had zero pain in the Ribcors and have skated in them endlessly, they are as comfy now on the ice as they were in the store and it has made a world of difference in my skating. The conclusion to this longwinded explanation is that the 7.5D Supremes I had were too narrow for my foot and were therefore squeezing the sides of my feet together which was causing pain on the bottom of my feet. Putting in supported insoles like Superfeet and the custom insoles I wasted money on were just making things worse because they were pushing up the arches of my feet and exacerbating the pain from the sides of my feet being squeezed by a skate that was too narrow for my foot. I now use superfeet insoles in my Ribcors because I like the bit of heel lift it gives and my feet are absolutely pain free and my feet do not get extremely fatigued after 20 minutes on the ice. So when I hear someone talking about foot pain like this the first thing I have to say is, it's a skate fitting problem. Not that i'm an expert, i'm just a beginner, but i've suffered through exactly this problem. And I'll go nowhere else except for Monkey Sports from now on when I need skates.

The issue i'm seeing with the Tackla girdle is there isn't even padding up to the belt, it's padded very low. Has anyone had any experience with the Warrior Covert QRE Pro SE or the True XC9 Pro girdles? They look like they have pretty good padding and the front padding comes up just past the belt line which would be much better.

It looks like there is no stomach protection on the Tackla's like there is on my Tacks. How do you deal with that as a vulnerability for getting slashed or hit with a puck in the stomach region? My shoulder pads come down my stomach a little but they don't come down far enough to reach the belt on those Tackla's.

Nice, thanks! They look pretty well padded. How is the fit on those? Do they fit close and how is the movement? Don't know of anywhere where I could try them on unfortunately. I'd have to buy sight unseen.

Right now i'm using CCM Tacks 7092 pants and i'm finding that the tailbone protection is none existent on these pants, just a thin pad. I fall on my ass more than I'd like because i'm just getting started, and every time I do it kills my tailbone. Does anyone have any good recommendations for pants or a girdle that has good tailbone protection? Thanks!

Would like to but both my wife and daughter have no interest in hockey, they're into figure skating and moving on to the freestyle stuff after our second round of learn to skate completes. I'm going from learn to skate into an adult hockey clinic. A shame, because there are some days I'd love to be able to check my wife into the boards though, nobody tell her I said that or she'll kick my ass...

Lol, I feel like I'm being chastised by my dad! You're right though, I'm going to bite the bullet and drop in on Monday when the rink opens back up. But I know that the minute I go to an open hockey session and actually start playing, my wife is going to divorce me and take me for everything I've got because I'll be at the damn rink all the time. I'll be living in my car, but at least I'll have hockey!

At lunch because i'm strapped for time, I throw on hockey pants and my bike knee pads and elbow pads over my dress pants and dress shirt lol, and of course my helmet. I can get these on and off really quickly. On the weekends when I have more time I put on full hockey gear.

HI Mark, I can stop well enough, cannot do a full 2 foot hockey stop yet, but I can do a 1 foot hockey stop on both sides and be able to change direction pretty well, just haven't managed to get that other foot in there yet! We had some bad storms come through here which knocked out power for 3 days, subsequently the rink next to my office is now closed until Monday because the ice got soft with the heat, so this forced me to look around intently for somewhere to go this weekend for open skate. I found a rink not to far away in Red Bank that not only has an Adult clinic which I signed up for, but also a D division league for beginners! So i'm looking into joining that! It's the only rink around that has d league hockey. All the other rinks around me are b/c combined leagues and the people on these teams are quite good, out of my league so to speak, at the moment.

4 rinks around me and only the 1 rink which is a township owned and run rink requires a helmet for minors, the other 3 rinks have no rules for any kind of protection.

I got to talk to a couple of the guys at one open hockey session, seemed like super nice guys. They encouraged me to drop in and offered to give me pointers and help me out. So now i've got butterflies lol. I can't wait to drop in but i'm nervous. I'm 46 years old and I can't remember the last time I was nervous about anything lol. I like it. I'm going to spend the next couple of weeks getting a little more comfortable with my backwards crossovers and transitions then i'm going to bite the bullet and go to an open hockey session!

Thanks for the video! I'll have to try this.

I'm just starting out learning to skate with the intention of playing some hockey, only been learning for about 6 months now. My 10 year old daughter got me into it after her grandparents took her ice skating and she got bit by the bug and asked me for skating lessons. I myself look like a complete tool every time I go skating because I wear all my equipment with the exception of shoulder pads, but I put on the hockey pants, knee pads, elbows pads and what I feel is the most important safety gear, my helmet. I will NOT allow my 10 year daughter on the ice without her helmet, knee pads and elbow pads. She also wears a padded short ensemble. Until she's proficient at skating, those are the rules. The other day, we're at the rink having a skate around, practicing some things, crossovers and the like, and there are only 4 other people on the rink, 3 kids and what I assume was their mother. As my daughter and I are doing our thing at one end of the ice I see one of the kids, probably about 10 or 11, skating close to us, wobbling and fumbling, then all of a sudden his feet came out from under him and he hit the ice head first, crack! No helmet, no protective gear of any kind whatsoever. The kid immediately starts screaming and he's got a gash on the left side of his forehead that is bleeding quite profusely. I wouldn't be surprised if the kid had a concussion, his head hit the ice HARD! Me and one of the guys from the proshop had to walk the kid off the ice, he couldn't even stand up on his own. So I ask you, in all seriousness, knowing how dangerous it can be to fall on the ice when you cannot skate, why is some form of head protection not mandatory at ice rinks for minors? You know damn well that the parents aren't smart enough to figure out that ice is slippery and hard and really REALLY hurts when you fall on it, so why don't rinks have a head protection rule for minors? Even if it's a bike helmet, something?

No haven't done those. Sounds interesting, you have any info on them?

I have to say that the foot exercises I have done and still do are the most significant thing I have done to overcome my pronation issues. I would recommend these foot exercises in a heartbeat to anyone who has pronation problems. Up the irons!

Thanks! I'll have to take a peek and see what it looks like.

Ah ok. So stick time is generally beginners? Thanks for the link by the way. There is one rink on there that has a clinic on a Sunday morning that is about 50 minutes away from me, that might work for me.

Thanks SirJW! There's one rink by me that has stick and puck sessions, Howell Ice Arena. Is that what you mean by stick time? Not familiar with stick and puck. The arena I go to which is right next door to my office is the Jersey Shore Arena. They have open hockey sessions. I've sat and watched a couple of these to see just how good the people attending are. Some are pretty good, there are a couple of guys that aren't that great there though. I myself am not quite up to the standard of "not that great" yet so it'll be a little while longer for me to drop in on an open hockey session. I think once i'm able to do backwards crossovers without looking like I just got terrified by a poltergeist every 4 or 5 strokes I might consider dropping in on an open hockey session.

I always practice at public open skates with all my gear on, except for shoulder pads. I have knee pads, hockey pants, elbow pads and helmet. I put all my gear on for my Learn to Skate lessons too. I look like a complete wanker and I don't care! Been learning for 6 months and i've worn gear since day one. I initially did it for protection because i'm old and the ice really hurts when you fall on it lol. But now I wear it not only for protection because it allows me to lose the fear of falling and being hurt so I can push myself harder and harder, but also my goal is to play hockey, so learning to skate and doing various maneuvers in full gear allows me to learn the maneuver for when I start playing hockey so I don't have to get used to doing the maneuvers in gear after learning them without the gear. Sure you get the occasional snicker out of some kids, but they usually laugh at you right before they fall on their ass so it evens out...

Does anyone know of any Adult Hockey clinics or Adult Learn To Play sessions in Central Jersey? I'm in my second round of Learn To Skate lessons and doing pretty well. From there i'd like to get some at least basics of hockey down before I attempt to drop in on an Open Hockey session so I don't look like a complete knob out there and start pissing people off because I have no idea what i'm doing! I've called every rink around me and not one of them has any type of hockey instruction for adults, not one. The closet place i've found from Googling is an hour and a half up north from me on a Sunday morning. I can't believe that there is so little interest in learning Hockey in my area that no rinks have any kind of classes for adults! I've looked into private lessons and while I can get those, i'd much prefer it to be a class with other people, that way you can have practice scrimmages and you'd be able to practice the things you're learning in a real sort of game. If anyone knows of any type of Adult hockey classes around the central Jersey area please let me know! I'd appreciate it!

Glad to see i'm not the only one! I'm 46, been learning now for about 6 months, doing the learn to skate programs and getting to the rink to practice as much as I can. Had a really rough start dealing with pronation but i'm past that and I am going gangbusters at learning and practicing! I'm chomping at the bit to drop in on an open hockey session, so i'm learning and learning and practicing and practicing. I have all my equipment ready, sticks, pads, you name it. I swear I feel like a little kid. It's become an obsession of sorts. I lucked out by my office being right next to a 3 rink arena and it is the only arena around that has open skate 7 days a week, from 10:30 to 2:30. So that's how I spend my lunch hour. Every day i'll run over to the rink at lunch, throw on my skates and practice for 45 minutes. Come back to the office covered in sweat and i'll eat my lunch while I work! I've sat down and watched a couple of the open hockey sessions to get a feel for how good these guys are. I figure i'll wait and keep learning until i'm just as good or better than the worst guy there, then at least I won't feel like an unbelievable tool that's the worst guy there lol. For me, I feel as if me finding skating and hockey at this stage of my life has actually thwarted any chance of a mid-life crisis, because now I actually have something to look forward to doing and several goals to achieve, instead of the mundane day after day of working, coming home, eating dinner, watching tv, going to bed, restart the whole thing again in the morning. The humdrum existence that tends to lead to a mid-life crisis.

I am actually going to do this eventually, but first i'm making up for valuable lost time learning to skate now that I actually can learn to skate! Thanks!

My coach actually did tell me about this option and it was one of the things I was going to do as a last resort in short order, but I had my epiphany of how strong my ankles and arches had become and my ability to get an outside edge right before I was going to try that. But now that I am finally comfortable and have the ability to gain an outside edge, I don't have to resort to that. It probably would have helped me a lot in the beginning, but then I wonder, what would the long term effect have been, learning to skate being used to a shimmed and adjusted blade holder? Would I have had issues if I went back to a standard placement on the blade holder once my ankles and arches were stronger? As painful and frustrating as my journey was, I'm glad I suffered through it and had the experience I did, because now I know I can get new skates and not have to worry about all the adjustments that would have to be made. I feel for anyone who has gone through this and who has wasted time and money dealing with banging their head against the wall like I did trying to figure out how to overcome it. Your absolutely right, orthotics are useless in skates. This is the part that aggravates me the most, because instead of completely wasting $600+ on useless pieces of plastic that did nothing but cause pain and empty my wallet, I could have spent that money on better quality skates, hockey equipment, etc.