goodguy

Happened with each of my kids Makos (about 5 pair thus far)... must remove liners and put in front of fan after each skate. Also, since it is carbon fiber, loose rivets cause torquing of the holder against the footbed and will cause premature breakdown of the carbon fiber. Always check mako rivets monthly. I spray a rust retardant onto rivets every month and seems to help. Now if I could only find a source for 8.5-9.5 size Mako2’s I’d be happy ...Son bought and skated VH/True and they are comfortable/well made but nowhere near the speed, performance of the Mako. Much more ‘clunky’. He is super fast on mako’s but people were asking what was wrong with him on the VH?

n/a

I have seen a few AAA players wear the Mako. Not alot. My 13 year old wears it and loves it -truly has improved his skating. The issue is the marketing. Bauer just seems to be the defacto standard for skates right or wrong. Spoke with a industry insider guy today who thinks very highly of the Makos and not very highly of the Bauers. No he does not sell skates per se but something that goes into/onto skates = deals w/OHL and NHL teams quite a bit and not a huge fan of Bauer quality? My younger son went to Makos from Reeboks (night and day Makos are much better), other son went from skating on Kor's for a few years to Vapor 7.os to Apx's and seem to do fine (guessing he could do a bit better in Makos but would hate to take the huge leap of faith at this point - maybe?

Does anyone know the stock specs on the ES4 Steel (aka Mako runners)? I am replacing my sons steel on his Makos and can't find too many shops which have the ES4 steel in stock. They DO have the Mako Step Steel, but from what I understand Step has different stock specs (less pitch than ES4 ?) and slightly larger radius (10'). i want to replicate the ES4 specs (due to my players having success with ES4) in Step Steel but what are the specs? (I have heard 3 degree pitch and 9' radius, is that right?) wouldn't a 9' radius lead to instability or so I am told, very few NHL'rs use 9' and want more blade on the ice for speed? I can see 9' for agility but seeing as the Mako comes out of a speed skating heritage, you would think that more steel on the ice (larger radius) would be a good thing? Seems like Easton went totally to agility (radius 9') at the cost of speed/stability or am I reading that wrong? Is there a way to measure pitch and radius at home? or at least pitch? I also heard that when a runner gets below 10mm of steel height left, it should be replaced. EDIT: Step Steel Rep confirmed their steel comes in a 10' radius.

Anybody doing z Channel Sharpenings in Michigan?

My 13 year old son was outgrowing his Reebok 14k's (size 6.5, toes touching the front but not cramped completely). We ended up with getting the Mako 1's used from a local PIAS store. The original owner of the skates was an NHL ref who only skated in them 2X - in a size 8. They were basically brand new and only a couple hundred bucks (actually after I traded in some old Kor's, one 90 shoulder pads and a kids snowboard, I ended up paying $65). After my son skated in them or the first time, I had a couple impressions (which he stated agreed with - I did not prompt him to answer in favor of the Makos as i wanted his true impressions without my leading him into any answers): PERFORMANCE: 1) He seemed to skate better backwards for some reason 2) He "seemed" faster skating forward 3) His turns were more agile and tighter 4) His stopping was much more precise 5) Stop and go direction changes were faster and more precise with a noticeable sound difference when hard stopping, nothing like a T-Blade sound but something. 6) The Makos are completely different than all other skates and skating styles show it. All the other players were skating with seemingly the way they have had to adopt due to the nature of Bauers, CCM's, etc... They all skate with almost loose ankles and sort of clunk into the stride...like the skates are these clunky stiff things which work but you almost have to throw around to work. In fact, it seemed (whether this was my brain wanting to see this or not) that the typical skates (total ones, vapors, etc) seemed to make transitions and edge control sort of it own style of skating in reaction to the boot as opposed to the boot being made for the best skating style. Most skaters have adapted and use the traditional boot just fine but I couldn't help but notice how much more agile and flowing my son was skating compared to his last pair. Then I noticed how it seemed like most skaters in stiff bauers, etc seemed to be fine but limited to what they could do in such a stiff boot. My other son is on APX's which I think are great but I cant help wonder what more agility and skill he could maybe get with the Mako? Maybe I was seeing things. 7) Son said he felt like he was skating on much more precise blades like "scalpels" and had finer control than his old skates. LOOK AND FEEL: 1) It was obvious these skates do not look like any other skate being used by 99% of other players. If fitting in is your style, then you may not like them. 2) It struck me for the first time that all other popular skates have gotten to look and function like mini ski boots and we have been conditioned to like that style, it works but the Mako's are not the norm. I come from a ski racing family and the parallels with ski equipment, marketing and technologies between hockey and skiing are interesting. Skiers are way more conditioned to try new things for performance than hockey players. It seems hockey players have BIG hangups on how things look, even if it limits performance. Then again, skiing is 100's of a second between winning and losing. 3) Son said he had no issues with the fit and feel of the skates...no rubbing, pinching, sore spots, etc...said they "felt great" (he normally would not complement anything so that was a good sign). 4) He said "other kids didn't like Makos" probably because 13 year olds are conditioned to fit in and do what is cool. Glad he doesn't care about that. But everybody cares a little at least. 5) I gotta admit, being open minded and more about performance than looks and I still thought they looked a bit odd from afar - due to the shape and tight fit at the ankles, they looked a bit like clown feet. The orange colors just attracts the eye to them so I can see why players might want to make them a bit more inconspicuous. 6) I cannot see the mako's overcoming the tidal wave of models and looks of the more notable brands (bauer, etc). I also have to admit, we tried on some MX3's they had from the same guy ($399 and looked almost brand new) which looked much better aesthetically than the Mako's. If price were no option, he probably would have grabbed the Bauers. VERDICT: There is definitely something in this Mako design that allows more precise control and performance than the "traditional" type of skate. If you can overcome the look (which really is not that bad), then I cannot see a reason to not use the Mako over other skates. Durability is my only concern..with some of the problems mentioned on this board and the seeming lack of service response..Easton is only going to shoot itself in the foot by coming out with a great product if they don't 100% stand behind it. Easton has to be known as the company that stands 100% behind its products. If I were paying top dollar for the Makos, I cannot say I would have made the leap of faith these require to buy them. I definitely think Easton should stick with the Mako skate and maybe seed the market with the youth players (like the CCM skills camp idea to generate demand and demonstrate how good these skates are). They will also have to account for the "leap of faith" factor which I don't think the 30 day guarantee will do. Something to make them more affordable than the competition. Maybe a free stick with purchase or free sharpenings for a year (1x a month), something to get people over hump and buy the Mako. I just don't think they can overcome the inertia of Bauer unless they do something major marketing wise and creating a real value for hockey families and players. Easton may not like to hear it but when you spend your credibility on poor products over the years (whether that impression is true of not...it is still an impression in my hockey community)...then you need to eat some crow, take a bit less profit, go the extra mile to get back that credibility. It would be a shame to have some a great product as the Mako which so many skaters could benefit from, and having it fail due to an unwillingness to do something different than Bauer. Well right now Bauer is kicking your arse and you have to do something different, the Mako is a good start - now back up the people who took the chance on Makos with great service. Mind you, I didn't even buy them new or at full retail so I shouldn't talk, but now that I have them...I probably will buy them again for all 3 of my skaters. UPDATE 11/10/2014: All I can say is WOW! about the Mako's!!! I know this will sound a bit overdone, but I am almost speechless about how my sons (aaa Bantam) skating has improved with the Mako's. Perhaps a natural progression of his ability but as soon as he started on the Mako's, his game changed. Coincidence? Not sure but his speed, turning ability, agility, etc is so much better I don't really know what to think. of course, it is hustle but I gotta think the confidence these skates give him has a lot to do with it. He had no adjustment period when switching to the Mako's. One big difference, no slop in the skates, around the ankles, etc. It seems every ounce of effort goes directly through the skates without a lot of wasted energy. The reason I say this is his speed has gone WAY UP, this all within a couple weeks of starting to use the Mako's, For example, in his last game, he was on the PK and after and after his D man cleared it all the way, the opposing D skating to get the cleared puck near his own goaline...race was on and my son beat him to the puck starting from his own blue and the opposing D started between his blue and centeline. He would NEVER have made that fast of an attack before. He ended up catching the D in the corner, checked him, took the puck and scored a shorty. After the game, he mentioned how much faster he feels the skates are compared to his previous pair. It is pretty interesting to watch ho much better his skating is on the Mako's...maybe it is his effort, but I gotta believe there is something seriously beneficial in the design of these skates. I am totally SOLD. On another note: My older son (aaa Midget) was complaining about the lack of confidence in his skates turning, edge hold, etc - and I could tell, His skating was getting worse and his turns were more like short steppy crossovers instead of full force flowing pushes. His coach suggested a 5/8" hollow and maybe a 3/4 to an inch. I always had him on 1/2" (he is 200lbs, 6'3"), So I took his skates to the best setup guy I know and after measuring found his radius was wayyy off ...One skate was a messed up 9' radius and the other an 11', balance points way off, etc. A bit of background: I got these APX2 skates used from a friend/PRO who skated them only 3x... then gave them to my son as they are same size. ... Well apparently something was changed on the steel and they were not matched. My profiling guy did his magic and changed each to an 11' radius, fixed balance points, etc switched him to a 5/8" hollow. Next practice, WOW faster, stronger on edges, tighter turns, much more stable, almost a different skater. Coaches noticed. I think we will try the 3/4 hollow next. So I have learned a lesson here...while equipment is not Everything..it is a HUGE part of the equation. Gone are the days of trying to make inferior stuff act like the good stuff because I want to save a buck. Depending upon your level of play, you really should use the stuff appropriate for your level and ability. And make sure it is tuned and checked by a competent professional who can give you suggestions to help improve. It pays big to skip the teenager giving a quick sharpening and find the pro who knows your player style and knows how to get the most out of your equipment.

Ok, I had a traditional sharpener guy tell me what he thought the major problem with FBV was. Tell me if he has a point (or not). He claims that FBV could be problematic as compared to a regular sharpening due to the the difficulty (operator error or machine setup incorrectly) of getting the "flat" in the FBV to be exactly in the center of the blade. Since the resultant edges of FBV have to be equal in size (talking millimeters here), if the sharpener dosent hit dead nuts center along the length of the blade, the one side/edge would be taller/shorter than the opposing edge and would be unnacceptable. Does this seem to be BS and how does one ensure the FBV is exactly equal on both edges of the skate? Is it possible that the centering of the blade has to be more exact than in a conventional sharpening? It would seem to me you would have the same issue with a ROH so I am not sure this is exclusively a potential problem with FBV. Also, when you look at a pair of skates tried on - do you look for a boot that allows the skater to stand fairly straight (drawing a line down the back of the leg along the spine of the skate) -or- would you be looking for the player being almost on an inside edge. Obviously standing in a shop and standing on ice are different but what kind of skate to leg angle are you looking for. Figure skaters call it something " ________" when you are standing on the flat of the blade and not on an edge which is where you get a wiggle when skating because you are not on an edge. Do you want the spine of the skate to be perfectly aligned with the leg or do you want slight bend when you get to the ankle (putting the skate on a slight inside edge)? What is the right answer. I have always had skates line up with the leg and and naturally standing with your legs apart, puts you on the inside edge. It would seem to me, if you setup a skate to be on an inside edge as a default, the skater would always be turning inward and would have to compensate and not have good outside edge control as they would have to really lean over to get the outside edge. I think bauer did this with some goal skates a few years ago which didn't work out too well - I can understand with goal skates but What are your thoughts on this?

Ok, regarding the stock profile of the Step Steel: I assume you guys are having your skates profiled after getting the new steel. Does the step stock profile stay intact -or- how are you keeping the heel center extra as I would imagine the shop would just re-profile the step from original and take away the extra - or am I reading what you saying wrong? In other words, don't most shops put a template on the blade - "Oh, I have to grind off the extra..." and shape the blade to the template - thereby losing the heel center steel anyway?

Unfortunately, my kid has the Graf PRO3000 holders (whichI dont think the blade comes out of?) so, in that case, it would necessitate a complete holder change (I think). Maybe I could switch to a better holder, blade design (can you recommend some which are performance but affordable) and easy to swap out? One of my kids uses TBlades and they have worked out well but are increasingly hard to find and maybe not the ideal situation anymore considering the lack of support in the market for them. There are good and bad points to them and I guess it comes down to market acceptance. My other kids use regular steel and think they could benefit from the FBV. Unfortunately, I tried FBV 90/75 in the middle of the season and the kid I tried it on was falling more than usual during a game. I switched right back to regular 1/2" hollow as he blamed FBV and was pissed at me for "messing with his skates". Summer is a better time to do this I think but I am still fearful that it is messing with his system that he has gotten used to. Perhaps it is better to wait until thay are older and can weather some hiccups in getting the process right (changing FBV's to get the right spec, etc). Currently, I have to drive 1/2 hour to get FBV done - pay $8 for the sharpening - and then hope it is right. if it isn't, have to redo with another setup. Might just be too much for me right now. I wish there was an easier way to take advantage of FBV without spending so much time and $$ to get it right. And if I do spend the time and $$, I have just created another maintenance point for myself as I know my wife will not go out of her way to get FBV if I am not available (especially if it is at a tourney, etc). So maybe I am not the best fit at this point but I would like some ideas on the holders, runners you are using, etc. It can't be as complex as I am making it out to be. Thanks. The ultimate solution for me would to be to just buy a X01 but it is a bit too much cash outlay right now.

Maybe I will give it a try and see. I have never tried really. Maybe time to learn someting new. Swapping runners. Thanks for the info.

Ok, so flat botton V is most likely the best thing to come along in a while but there are two issues that are keeping me from jumping on board. 1) Availability of FBV shops: Unfortunately FBV shops are few and far between. Should I have my kids at a tourney in an area without FBV, then I am SOL and would have to go back to regular hollow. Wouldn't want to get my kid "conditioned" to skate on FBV then have to switch in a pinch back to regular hollow during a critical time (between games). Multiple blade sets are an option but that would entail higher costs and swapping out which is not possible on short notice (between games, etc). Maybe with the something like the Graf holders and torx screws it could be done with within about 20 minutes but since there is nothing like FBV T-Blades, then it would be next to imposible to switch them to make it a practical option. 2) Quality of FBV sharpening: From my impression (I may be wrong), the FBV sharpening requires a VERY (capital VERY) accurate setup to ensure the flat portion is exactly in the middle of the blade. Otherwise your edges would not be equal and would be ineffective. Maybe not your favorite FBV shop - but many shops have undertrained staff who can barely get regular sharpenings right. So the incidence of bad sharpenings would be greater unless there was a physical (machine setup) way to ensure a correct FBV sharpening. Seems to be, there is less room for error in FBV than in regular sharpenings - is that true? I am very impressed with the promise of FBV but having kids who are always on the ice (getting frequent sharpenings) I see two possible solutions to the issues above: 1) Buy a personal machine X01, X02 which aint cheap (and I wuold have to be at every tourney for each kid to be able to resharpen - wife would love not having to drive to Toronto a few times a season but I would have to be in thre places at once). 2) Blackstone should have TBlade license versions of FBV runner. I know the T Blade is contraversial but I have had success with it for one of my players and having a FBV runner option would be the easiest solution for someone not wanting to buy a machine. Probably never happen though due to the reduction in TBlade use. Just some thoughts. I would love to go FBV across the board but would have to solve some availability issues first (at least in my case).

Got my sons skates FBV'd today 90/75. Got a little training on the machine (not hands on of course) and the spinner concept looks like an amazing innovation. Pretty foolproof compared to the old way. Sharpener said he has had no complaints and only good reviews of the FBV. Feeling the blade after sharpening, it felt flatter (like a goalie skate) but still very sharp whcih I knew would be that case but it wa interesting. Wasn't as dramatic a feel difference with the finger as I thought (but hell it is the skating that matters not my stupid finger) Gentleman said his FBV users are getting more time between sharpenings also. From what I could gather, if FBV "takes the market by storm" it looks like Blackstone could have a corner on the market. Will report back as to how he likes them tomorrow. Taking him to the new Puckmasters training center in the next few minutes to get some ice time with them and see if he falls on his ass or skates like the wind. UPDATE: OK, got some good results from the FBV. Unfortunately puckmasters only has 1/4 ice and it is pretty rough as I dont think they zam it but one or twice a day - it was like pond hockey grade. Anyway, as far as edges and movement, I could see no negative - in fact it looke dlike he was more agile on on the FBV sharpening than a regular one (hard to tell). Well the initial test was good but we will se when he jump on the real (just zam'ed) ice for his 10:00 playoff game tomorrow. From how he was skating tonight, I think he will be fine. BTW, he was dying to try the synthetic ice sheet next to the real ice and I said "no way" as I didn't know if the stuff would dull the sharpening I ran all over to get. But I let him try it anyway for a few - like skating through sludge. The EBV seemed to be as sharp as ever. UPDATE #2: Ok, I know I am going to get bitch-slapped by you guys but here goes. After my inital test of the FBV 90/75 (albeit on unzambonied ice) - it appeared to be fine and my son "seemed" to skate normally. So the next day, he has a game (pretty impotant one in fact) in which he proceeds to fall down about once per shift. He was pissed and it caused a bit of a problem becuase he would slip on transitions and while falling have to trip the opposing player to prevent a goal (can you say get in the box). I immediately drove back to his regular LHS and went back to the 1/2" ROH. NOW - hold on - I must say it is an intriguing concept and I plan to try it again this summer. But in a competitive situation you might want to wait unitl you have a free few weeks (which is never during the season) to really tweak it and find out what works. Totally my fault for throwing in another variable without the correct amount of time to adjust. While most say that the time to get used to FBV is very little. I would just have to say "be careful when you make the switch". Maybe it is part mental but for a player who is in their seasonal "groove" and not really having issues - it may throw them off a bit. Maybe it was the 90/75 and should have tried a 100/75 but after the switch back to 1/2" ROH, he was skating great again. I guess my conclusion is the slight increase in glide is a great thing but don't make the mistake of switching at a critical time like I did. My kid literally had to sit the third period because he was so inneffective in the game (which is not at all like him). Was it all the FBV - of course not but once you get it in your head that something is wrong with your blades - your whole game can be shot (mental or not). Very promising but can anyone sugest a different setup than 90/75 considering the slip outs he was having.

Got my sons skates FBV'd today 90/75. Got a little training on the machine (not hands on of course) and the spinner concept looks like an amazing innovation. Pretty foolproof compared to the old way. Sharpener said he has had no complaints and only good reviews of the FBV. Feeling the blade after sharpening, it felt flatter (like a goalie skate) but still very sharp whcih I knew would be that case but it wa interesting. Wasn't as dramatic a feel difference with the finger as I thought (but hell it is the skating that matters not my stupid finger) Gentleman said his FBV users are getting more time between sharpenings also. From what I could gather, if FBV "takes the market by storm" it looks like Blackstone could have a corner on the market. Will report back as to how he likes them tomorrow. Taking him to the new Puckmasters training center in the next few minutes to get some ice time with them and see if he falls on his ass or skates like the wind. UPDATE: OK, got some good results from the FBV. Unfortunately puckmasters only has 1/4 ice and it is pretty rough as I dont think they zam it but one or twice a day - it was like pond hockey grade. Anyway, as far as edges and movement, I could see no negative - in fact it looke dlike he was more agile on on the FBV sharpening than a regular one (hard to tell). Well the initial test was good but we will se when he jump on the real (just zam'ed) ice for his 10:00 playoff game tomorrow. From how he was skating tonight, I think he will be fine. BTW, he was dying to try the synthetic ice sheet next to the real ice and I said "no way" as I didn't know if the stuff would dull the sharpening I ran all over to get. But I let him try it anyway for a few - like skating through sludge. The EBV seemed to be as sharp as ever.

To those who own the x01 or x02: I'm looking at the financials behind either machine and what the break even is. And scenarios you ran through before buying one (i.e. on a personal level, it would take X number of sharpenings to break even). -or- are you charging teammates for sharpenings, etc. How much... Or was a payback not really a factor and it is just convenient (and fun) to do your own sharpenings? Thanks

Yeah but if he has a conventional Blackstone sharpener, which I am pretty positive he does, he can't do them. You are right again JR...damn.. Hate to reread all 47 pages of posts but what Blackstones (beyond the X01 and X02) can take the fbv spinner?

Arctic Pond in Plymouth Michigan has a Blackstone and got him interested in FBV - Get him the spinners PLEASE....

Any discounts on the x01 x02 or are you guys paying retail? Don't want to sound like a cheap skate (no pun intended) but almost a grand for a personal sharpening machine is a little above MY budget right now. But I love new deveopment and FBV sounds so interesting - I just can't see driving all over to find FBV shops and couldn't get it at tourneys etc. So I would get my kid hooked on FBV and then have to change back and forth every few sharpenings - seems like a good way to mess up his technique and go through blades (and genrally end up with crappy edges). Any recommendations?

See this link: http://www.flatbottomv.com/

Thanks JR - Thought I was SOL on the FBV. Everybody I talk to have never heard of it. I will tell Steve you sent me. Thanks again. Few questions - I don't want to mess with his skating by changing to FBV during state playoffs. 1) It is that much of a difference to where he may be skating like crap after i do it - or not that different? 2) Can it be reversed easily without grinding the blade back down to nothing (if he doesn't like it)? 3) And - how long would you give it to know whether he likes it or not (one skate, three, what)? Thanks again guys, I am assuming the 75/100 it the starting point.

I know I am a little behind the whole thread here but can you do FBV on the X01 (or X02)? How much more do you estimate the ability to do personal sharpenings with FBV will cost (for the spinner, wheel, etc) above and beyond the machine itself. So if I say , "FBV is the way to go" but I can't find any local shops to do it. And I get an x01, can I do it with that but how much more will I need to spend to get the ability to beyond the cost of the x01? How hard is it to do FBV vs regular hollow in terms of skill and practice? I am assuming the FBV sharpenings are limited to the blackstones (or am I wrong)? Total sharpening beginner here. One more question, what setup would you recommend for a kid (120 lbs) to try out FBV (100/75, 90/x ?) (Pair of Vapor XXXX's). Thanks.

Can't beleive I have never heard of this until now. Does anybody know of any FBV shops in Michigan. JR we need you back here - maybe we need to setup our own shop?