AfftonDad

I'm going to try some of these (with the flanges snipped off) the next time a rivet comes out of my VHs (assuming they fit without drilling).

I often wondered about how tight the tolerances are on the spinners. I doubt that a Vernier caliper is the right tool to measure them though.

I was at 95-75 and 100-50 on my U+CLs. When I switched to Makos that was "too sharp" and I went to 90-75 on them. The shallowest spinner I had was 90-50 and I had never even tried it because 90-75 was almost too shallow for me. When I got my VH's with Mako holders and runners and put the same 90-75 on them they were WAAAAYYY "too sharp".. I tried 90-50, still too sharp. Ended up buying 85-75 and 85-50 spinners to try. 85-50 was a little too shallow and 85-75 is just right. 90-75 is still what feels right when I go back on my Makos. So if just changing the skate boot can make that much of a noticeable difference to me, I don't think the difference is imagined. Maybe a worn out spinner or a bad sharpening???... because that shouldn't be possible unless something was wrong. EDIT: Sorry... I just (re)read that you do you own sharpening... I didn't mean to suggest that you aren't good at it. Perhaps the spinner was made out of spec.

I could be completely happy with only the 75 edge depth as long as there was a slightly finer resolution in the width steps. The net effect would actually result in fewer spinners overall.

Looking more closely at the numbers for the available spinners in your post (and cross checking against Blackstone's site) it becomes apparent that they do have "in between" width values now, at least in full size spinners. Unfortunately, I use an x-series portable and they don't have those "in-between" options. It looks like in full size spinners they have 82, 85, 88, etc. This of course gives a smaller step from 80 to 82 and 88 to 90 (2) than from 82 to 85 and from 85 to 88 (3). They probably ought to just bite the bullet and go something like 80,82,84,86,88,90,92,94,96,98,100 and phase out 85, 95, etc. Also, it would be nice if they would offer the same sizes in mini spinners that they do in full size spinners.

I would agree with your assessment. I made this chart for my own use few years ago based on the spinners that were available at that time and the geometric info that was included in their document that was on the old site. It appears to me that the number for 85/50 in their chart above is way out of line of what would be expected. I have both 85/50 and 95/50 spinners and have used them both and 85/50 definitely has less bite than 95/50. As I have said on this forum several times in the past, in my opinion, I think you (and everyone) would do themselves a favor to pick a single edge depth as a ("coarse adjustment") and hold that constant and then vary the flat width ("fine adjustment") to get to the amount of bite that they want (bigger number = more bite, lesser number = less bite). To be honest though... I have found myself in the situation where there wasn't enough fine adjustment in the steps of "5" on the width and I have had to switch from 75 to 50 depth to get there. I sometimes wish that there were only one edge depth (say 75) and that the flat widths came in steps of 1 or 2 (relative to the 5 that is currently typical).

Remember that PROtecTOE stuff they used to make? Have we come full circle?

Extremely shallow... If you can handle that though, more power to you!

TBRs post just gave me a great idea (I wish I had the resources to develop it). A CNC single point dressing setup. You could do an infinite number of hollows... FBV, BFD, Z-channel, A-Trap, ROH, Elliptical, ANYTHING. All with the exact same setup. Without changing a spinner. And you could set the parameters to whatever values you wanted... You want a 98-73 FBV? We can do that. you want a 71-98-73 FBV? We can do that. You want a 5.2/8 ROH? We can do that. Just program the parameters in via the front panel and press the "DRESS" button. You could even put a sensor in that could tell when the quill is in contact with the wheel so that you could take off no more or no less than is exactly necessary, thus increasing wheel life while ensuring the quality of the dress. It would of course be cost prohibitive for a portable sharpener but at the price places pay for a full size sharpener, you could probably get away with it. EDIT: It would be difficult to measure "edge eveness" for the case I describe above that has different edge depths. Different edge angles (like the A-Trap) is probably just as good (or better) a solution than different edge depths. But the concept of the CNC single point quill is still valid.

Just curious... Does the Wissota Universal Dresser accept full size or mini spinners?

Yeah... the only reason I'm talking about it in this thread is because this is where it is being talked about (sorry about that). I wouldn't really say I have "an issue" with the rivets on my VH skates although they do seem to break and/or come loose a little more frequently than other skates (including Mako's). Someone mentioned in the VH thread that it looked to them that the riveting equipment that they were using at VH was perhaps a little worn out. I don't know if it is that or just something about the boot that causes them to come out a little easier. Since Total Hockey replaces rivets for free, I don't really have an issue other than I'm the kind of person that would like to be able to fix them myself. That's why the possibility of switching to screws as they come out sounds attractive to me. I kind of wish all skate companies would switch to screws.

When using the black marker trick on runners that I didn't sharpen the last time (I always do the marker thing when I'm doing a pair that wasn't done by me the last time or when changing hollows) and when putting an FBV hollow on them, I have come to associate the black line gradually becoming narrower and narrower with each pass as the previous hollow being an ROH hollow. On the other hand, when I do it on a previous (good) FBV sharpening I'll generally see either the edges OR the flat are removed relatively quickly followed by the other part being removed relatively quickly. Would you guys agree that my observation is correct? The reason I ask is that I am routinely quite surprised when someone gives me a pair of skates that they swear had FBV on them and I observe the slow gradual reduction of the line towards the middle of the runner. Is it possible that these people are being TOLD they are getting FBV when in fact they are getting ROH. Or do you think it is more likely that the person just isn't dressing the wheel enough to get rid of the old hollow? Nothing... They just need to make sure they completely get rid of the old hollow. If you have any nicks, they will almost assuredly have to go deep enough to get rid of the nicks that they will also be completely getting rid of the old hollow. Taking off TOO LITTLE steel is not generally a problem that I see happening when I see skates sharpened.

#WaitingForRivetToComeOut

That's a good idea. Just ordered some... now I just need to wait for a rivet to come out. I hope this works without drilling. I'm not about to drill on my skates.

Apparently they exist, but finding them in stock may be a problem... http://shop.stafast.com/weld-nuts/round-base/bosses-up http://www.jhpfasteners.com/flange-weld-with-projections-thru-hole-c-66_67_74_75-l-en.html

My standard ones with CXN holders (size 9.5) were 933g. http://i.imgur.com/YjehaFJ.jpg

Those washers you picked don't appear to be much bigger than the screw heads. Why did you decide to include (those) washers? (Of course if they end up being 6-32, the need for washers will be even greater). I wish I knew how tough it would be to get a 8-32 OR 6-32 T-nut into the existing hole. I don't want to drill and I don't want to take my holders completely off. I just want to replace them one at a time as they break or come off (they seem to break/come off way more frequently on my VHs than any other skate I've had). I just had a rivet replaced a couple of days ago. Wish I would have had some stuff on hand to experiment with when it came out. Guess I should order some so that when the next rivet inevitably comes out I can give it a try.

Do you use the t-nuts with the fangs or is it purely a friction fit? I'm a little concerned that the fanged ones would start tearing up the boot over time.

So you are saying no drilling required? My (current) skates are actually VHs. Perhaps they have different size holes? I've already had several replaced at the LHS and they look like the same rivets.

I just emailed Scott Van Horne about the MLX screws. He said I would have to drill out my boot to make the holes bigger to accommodate the larger T-Nuts. That sounds like a little more work than I want to do and a little too permanent a change for me to do to my skates. He also said that I would have to order 10000 at a time. The text on that Pro-Filer link above says that their solution can be done one lost rivet at a time and on the road (which would imply to me that you don't have to drill). I wish they provided more info on their page about it (or at least some pictures of the nut/screw). Can anyone provide any details on that kit?

Looking at the Graf screws that you can buy on HockeyMonkey, it looks like they have some flanges on them. I understand that they would be necessary to hold the nut in place but does anyone know if the flanges will "self cut" on non-Graf skates) as you tighten the screws. Or do you somehow have to cut slots? Also... once you use the screws have you trashed the skates as far as opening up the holes too much to ever go back to rivets? Thanks.

What's in the box? Is it ALL screws and T Nuts? Are they various sizes?

Wow... Is your son's name Connor McDavid? What a dad!

I could of course skate with them (and play) right away. What took some getting adjusted to (for me) was mainly two things... 1) Transitions to backwards felt a little weird (I caught my heel edges a little more frequently) and 2) I initially got winded on them more easily (I guess because I was using different muscles than I had been). Both things got worked out in a few games though.

I had a guy at an LHS (he reads MSH and can chime in and go on record if he wants) who I trust who I had "measure" the stock Mako steel (NOTE: THIS IS THE STEEL ONLY) using Blackstone profiling equipment. He said in his assessment he put it approximately halfway between +1 and +2. QUESTION FOR THE PROFILERS OUT THERE: Can you put the knob "in between" clicks to get a +1.5?