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Fletch

Roenick - "We've agreed to some kind of deal."

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I didn't say either of you don't work hard you're jumping ahead. I am saying they make alot of money, they work hard, and for someone who doesn't live their lifestyle to say they don't deserve the money is a little out of place.

The February proposal was better for them, but they still would have "lost"

Hey, you were the one trying to get us to feel sorry for guys who will be making an average of around $1.3 million a season.

"They worked hard to get there........"

"They have to travel................."

"They have to train everyday........"

Those are all junk reasons. Everyone who works, works all the time. I know I've worked hard to get where I am. And, to be honest, no, I don't think they deserve the money they get.

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And I didn't work hard to get where I am? Salming isn't working hard to get his piece of the pie?

As for losing out with the rollback and cap, those guys shot themselves in the foot by trying to get the owners to back down on the cap and linkage. Not only are they getting a lower cap now, but they are also getting linkage, which they weren't getting in the February NHL proposal.

The cap is no lower than what was previously offered and includes a floor, something the NHL did not offer until late in the process. The NHL February offer also included no arbitration rights, 75% qualifying offers and no change to free agency. There is also agreement on what constitutes hockey revenue, something that did not exist before. There is a lot of evidence that the NHL made an offer that was unacceptable on every level other than the cap number in order to fool the publlic into backing them. With all of the provisions in their offer, only a handful of teams would have spent as much as they will under the new agreement.

Only a small percentage of NHL players live the life you assume. Most have a relatively short career (compared to us working stiffs) and the money they earn has to be sufficient to either last the rest of their life, allow them to get further education for a new career or to start a new business of their own.

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Only a small percentage of NHL players live the life you assume. Most have a relatively short career (compared to us working stiffs) and the money they earn has to be sufficient to either last the rest of their life, allow them to get further education for a new career or to start a new business of their own.

This is too good to pass up. So if I only play 4 seasons and am a lower rung guy, making some $500k a year, I will really be struggling to get myself an education or buy my way into a business with that million dollars I earned. I hope I qualify for food stamps.

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I'm not trying to get you to feel sorry for them, just acknowledge that they will suffer a change in their lifestyles.

I imagine it will be a little easier for them to adjust to a change in lifestyle than you or i. If they were smart theyd get themselves a real good financial advisor and invest in property in southern california as thats a market that doesnt seem to have a ceiling

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It always makes me laugh to hear bitter people complain about NHL player salaries.  Junk reason or not, they trained like hell to get there and have had to make many sacrifices.  But most important, they have something VERY special that very few of us have that enable them to play hockey at such a high level.  600-700 of the best and they entertain working schmucks like us.  Entertainers (Good ones) deserve all the money they can get.  They are the best of the best, have to adapt their lifestyle to get where they are, and worked very hard to get where they are.    And most importantly, the players (NHL) make our life a little better.  Never a $$ value on that in my eyes.

Not to mention, you see the success of the NHL player, which is even overblown in some aspects as Chadd mentions.  I have people who work on wall street or own their businesses working in the city in my town and they are making 500k+ for 20 or more years.  They make out better then many NHL players and have a much longer career to make money.

Anyways, what about the guys who train their whole youth and make sacrafices to play in the NHL and get nowhere?  Maybe they have to play in a league where an accountants salary would look mighty good.  We all make choices.  They made all the right ones to get where they are and they have something special they very few have. Its a high risk/ high reward proposition that requires a lot of luck/ determination/ and one of a kind skill.

Damn, what a nice text. I could have written that in french but nerver in english, AWESOME text.

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It always makes me laugh to hear bitter people complain about NHL player salaries.  Junk reason or not, they trained like hell to get there and have had to make many sacrifices.  But most important, they have something VERY special that very few of us have that enable them to play hockey at such a high level.   600-700 of the best and they entertain working schmucks like us.  Entertainers (Good ones) deserve all the money they can get.  They are the best of the best, have to adapt their lifestyle to get where they are, and worked very hard to get where they are.    And most importantly, the players (NHL) make our life a little better.  Never a $$ value on that in my eyes.

Not to mention, you see the success of the NHL player, which is even overblown in some aspects as Chadd mentions.  I have people who work on wall street or own their businesses working in the city in my town and they are making 500k+ for 20 or more years.  They make out better then many NHL players and have a much longer career to make money.

Anyways, what about the guys who train their whole youth and make sacrafices to play in the NHL and get nowhere?  Maybe they have to play in a league where an accountants salary would look mighty good.  We all make choices.  They made all the right ones to get where they are and they have something special they very few have. Its a high risk/ high reward proposition that requires a lot of luck/ determination/ and one of a kind skill.

Damn, what a nice text. I could have written that in french but nerver in english, AWESOME text.

Ya Theo thats a great post. Of your the best at any job in life you should be paid like your the best

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It always makes me laugh to hear bitter people complain about NHL player salaries. Junk reason or not, they trained like hell to get there and have had to make many sacrifices. But most important, they have something VERY special that very few of us have that enable them to play hockey at such a high level. 600-700 of the best and they entertain working schmucks like us. Entertainers (Good ones) deserve all the money they can get. They are the best of the best, have to adapt their lifestyle to get where they are, and worked very hard to get where they are. And most importantly, the players (NHL) make our life a little better. Never a $$ value on that in my eyes.

Not to mention, you see the success of the NHL player, which is even overblown in some aspects as Chadd mentions. I have people who work on wall street or own their businesses working in the city in my town and they are making 500k+ for 20 or more years. They make out better then many NHL players and have a much longer career to make money.

Anyways, what about the guys who train their whole youth and make sacrafices to play in the NHL and get nowhere? Maybe they have to play in a league where an accountants salary would look mighty good. We all make choices. They made all the right ones to get where they are and they have something special they very few have. Its a high risk/ high reward proposition that requires a lot of luck/ determination/ and one of a kind skill.

Very well put. The owners are complaining about a system they created and allowed to be corrupted.

Unfotunatley both sides jumped on the bandwagon and rode the horse into the ground.

I still fell bad for guys who'll never make it and toil in the lower leagues never to see a pension, or a good health plan to cover the physical bill their career has imposed.

Both sides are to blame. But the game has lost.

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It always makes me laugh to hear bitter people complain about NHL player salaries. Junk reason or not, they trained like hell to get there and have had to make many sacrifices. But most important, they have something VERY special that very few of us have that enable them to play hockey at such a high level. 600-700 of the best and they entertain working schmucks like us. Entertainers (Good ones) deserve all the money they can get. They are the best of the best, have to adapt their lifestyle to get where they are, and worked very hard to get where they are. And most importantly, the players (NHL) make our life a little better. Never a $$ value on that in my eyes.

Not to mention, you see the success of the NHL player, which is even overblown in some aspects as Chadd mentions. I have people who work on wall street or own their businesses working in the city in my town and they are making 500k+ for 20 or more years. They make out better then many NHL players and have a much longer career to make money.

Anyways, what about the guys who train their whole youth and make sacrafices to play in the NHL and get nowhere? Maybe they have to play in a league where an accountants salary would look mighty good. We all make choices. They made all the right ones to get where they are and they have something special they very few have. Its a high risk/ high reward proposition that requires a lot of luck/ determination/ and one of a kind skill.

Please, the trained since youth and made sacrifices arguments futile arguments at best. Everyone who reaches a high level in whatever profession have done the same things. And guess what, those people accept salaries based on what the market can bear.

As for your Wall Street folks raking it in, those people work 60-70 hours a week. I'd say that's a lot of hard work and sacrifice.

Then to feel bad for the guys who train and don't make it. Guess what, they made a choice to follow that path and they can make a choice to leave it. I've skated with plenty of guys who took a kick at the can and went from a few years in the minors to successful lives outside of hockey. These guys don't go from hockey to food stamps.

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It's not resentment so much as I refuse to feel sorry for them being subjected to a cap and rollback.  There is a difference.

No one was asking you to feel sorry for them, it sounds like you hate every NHL player for making that kind of money. Saying that you worked hard to get where you are is pretty weak, these guys have way more pressure on them than you could ever imagine. I don't think you moved away from your family at 16 to be a junior accountant. Just my 2 cents.

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It's not resentment so much as I refuse to feel sorry for them being subjected to a cap and rollback.  There is a difference.

No one was asking you to feel sorry for them, it sounds like you hate every NHL player for making that kind of money. Saying that you worked hard to get where you are is pretty weak, these guys have way more pressure on them than you could ever imagine. I don't think you moved away from your family at 16 to be a junior accountant. Just my 2 cents.

I couldn't agree with you more the pressure to perform is something most people can't imagine and to have to do it night in night out for the majority of the year is incredible. For the most part NHL players deserve what they make, they're some obvious exceptions ( Holik, etc.). If you argue that professional sports players are over paid how can you not argue that the entire entertainment industry is overpaid

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Needing to worship heroes is part of the human condition. The ancient Greeks and Romans did the same thing with their athletes and entertainers, too. Modern marketing has just increased the money available to athletes and entertainers.

Some more articles:

Lemieux accidentally rubbing the players' noses in it

Jagr putting a bull's eye on his back

Bobby Hull's comments

NA players getting back to what they do best

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If you argue that professional sports players are over paid how can you not argue that the entire entertainment industry is overpaid

That's funny you said that, because that's exactly what I was going to write. We all know the majority of the entertainment industry is overpaid, but it's slightly easier to accept if their salary is tied in economically to the revenue.

Actors get paid up front. If the movie/show tanks, they still get paid. There have been articles over the years suggesting there would be less tank jobs if actors and directors were compensated by the performance of the film/show, but it would be the proverbial cold day when that happens.

Musicians/bands are slightly closer to the revenue stream, but the big names get paid up front in their contract regardless how their records do; similarly they get paid for their concert, while the promoter loses money if it's a weak draw.

Outside of football, athletes have guaranteed contracts in the four major sports, so teams have to rely on the integrity of the athlete to continue to give their best effort, including the offseason. Many do give their best effort, yet we all know players who lost weight for their contract year. TO says he's going to sit unless he's paid more than he was happy with a year ago. Contrast that with Ted Williams who told the Red Sox before his final season that he wanted a 25% pay cut, because he didn't deserve the money based on the previous season's performance.

That's why the salary cap tied to revenue makes the most sense. Look at NBA players. Granted there are fifteen per roster, so the numbers are better, but you can't begrudge the money they make, since their salaries are set as a percentage of revenue -- LIKE EVERY OTHER BUSINESS IN AMERICA. But the NHL players salaries continued to increase while the TV contract decreased, yet they hadn't been willing to admit they were killing their own golden goose.

I think the biggest thing that bothers me about our entertainers is how they ultimately begin to feel entitled. What a privilege it is to be able to train every day and play a sport or song for an extravagent living, regardless of some of the pitfalls. Who here wouldn't take that opportunity if you had the skill? But, would you start to believe your own press clippings, or would you realize that you were very fortunate indeed to be born with such genetic gifts? After all, you could be working at the mill if you didn't have those skills.....

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Let's be honest about the NBA "cap", it's a joke. There are enough exceptions granted to each team, plus the loopholes regarding returning veterans, that calling it a cap or considering it tied to revenues really isn't accurate.

The Knicks spent $94M last year and the Bobcats spent $23M. There is no way that system is better than the former NHL system.

Number cited from USA Today NBA salary database.

http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/...px?year=2004-05

On the entertainment part, is anyone finding Tom Cruise's scientology rants as funny as I am? The man is going batshit crazy on a national stage.

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On the entertainment part, is anyone finding Tom Cruise's scientology rants as funny as I am? The man is going batshit crazy on a national stage.

You mean the bit about no science in psychiatry?....

Regarding the NBA cap, you're right that it's not a hard cap, but the luxury tax associated with it causes many of the teams to hold back.

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On the entertainment part, is anyone finding Tom Cruise's scientology rants as funny as I am? The man is going batshit crazy on a national stage.

You mean the bit about no science in psychiatry?....

Regarding the NBA cap, you're right that it's not a hard cap, but the luxury tax associated with it causes many of the teams to hold back.

Next year only one NBA team will spend less than the highest spending NHL teams, I find it hard to believe NHL revenues are that low. I still believe a significant luxury tax with revenue sharing would have resolved nearly all of the issues with the NHL CBA.

He's had a couple of "strange" situations lately.

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The NBA has a much better tv deal with ESPN/TNT and has stronger merchandising than the NHL. If you were to compare ticket sales from league to league, I would be willing to bet they are somewhat similar. It is all the extra revenue the NBA has that the NHL is missing.

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This weekend Roenick re-iterated his opinion at Lemieux's charity golf tournament, saying, roughly:

(i) that those who think the players are spoiled can kiss his backside;

(ii) the players don't want people who think the players are spoiled in the arenas; and

(iii) he knew all along that the Feb deal was going to be much better than the one that will be done in July.

Then Brisebois said he agreed with (iii) for-the-record in English, and added that the players wanted to play in Feb but the NHLPA kept them from doing so.

So, I'm expecting a few fractured dressing rooms when training camps open. Hope it doesn't affect your favourite team. If it happens, it will take strong leadership to bring the room back together.

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I like what JR said.

Hockey players bust their ass on the ice and the people who bitch and moan about how much money they make can go to hell. The players also gave a lot in this CBA as some teams will reduce spending by over 50%. The owners would have been content to sit much longer in order to break the union like they have and it's only because the players were willing to take it in the ass that they will be back on the ice. It was not a negotiation, it was the NHL holding the gun in a hostage situation.

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I think it would have been very interesting if the NHLPA leadership relented on JR's idea of a vote back in Jan/Feb. It was something all along that I thought would have been an eye opener for those who supported the PA's stance and for the leadership. A lot of the rank and file are pissed because not only did the PA leadership get them a worse deal, but they lost an entire year of salary to get it.

Goodenow can kiss his job goodbye as well as the PA executive committee.

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I saw that and would commend him with having the balls to come out and actually show what (some) players think of the whole thing. I can't really see what he said causing the NHL to lose fans because the bottom line is it's still a shitty product they're going to re-sell to people.

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