The Hockey News top 50 Players

[McCabe#1 0]

Kovy,

You yourself admitted that Lemiuex does not have a great passion for the game, and we all know he hasn't practiced that hard, so how do you explain his stats if those 7 players you listed all have better skill??? If he doesn't have passion, and doesn't work hard, he must've got by on skill. Explain?

[freq019 0]

I remember reading an interview when Lemieux decided to comeback in 2000. Jay Caufield whipped him into shape and the man himself said his career would be different if he had trained in his prime the way Jay worked him for his comeback. He said he used to think prepping for the season meant stop smoking and quit ordering fries. In his defense though he grew up at the tail end of the era where guys didn't take it as seriously as they do now. Look at Golf its a little behind Hockey in that when tiger came along everyone started hitting the gym because that was the only way to beat him, before that though hitting the gym was almost unheard of. With a few exceptions it was the same in Mario's early years.

[DarkStar50 679]

I remember reading an interview when Lemieux decided to comeback in 2000. Jay Caufield whipped him into shape and the man himself said his career would be different if he had trained in his prime the way Jay worked him for his comeback. He said he used to think prepping for the season meant stop smoking and quit ordering fries. In his defense though he grew up at the tail end of the era where guys didn't take it as seriously as they do now. Look at Golf its a little behind Hockey in that when tiger came along everyone started hitting the gym because that was the only way to beat him, before that though hitting the gym was almost unheard of. With a few exceptions it was the same in Mario's early years.

Thanks for the Jay Caulfield reference. I talked last night with NHL linesman Pat Dapuzzo about this thread. "Mario is the best I ever saw on ice." Pat then reminded me about the all the work Jay did with Mario on his comeback. So lets say the man does have some dedication and passion for the game. He put the work into his body after he beat CANCER. Just a reminder about one of Mario's life experiences that oh, nobody else in the league has had to LIVE THROUGH.

Kovy, first you say Mario has no skills, now you say no passion. I am just waiting for you to say he was lucky to get all those points. I watched Kovalev stickhandle in a phonebooth with the NYR in his early years but he had a ton of trouble putting it all together. And BTW, the captain of his team was Mark Messier, so lets just say he had someone to show him the way and chose not to. Dedication, passion, hmmm? Kovalev has a world of talent and a checkered career to show for it.

[freq019 0]

I remember reading an interview when Lemieux decided to comeback in 2000.  Jay Caufield whipped him into shape and the man himself said his career would be different if he had trained in his prime the way Jay worked him for his comeback.  He said he used to think prepping for the season meant stop smoking and quit ordering fries.  In his defense though he grew up at the tail end of the era where guys didn't take it as seriously as they do now.  Look at Golf its a little behind Hockey in that when tiger came along everyone started hitting the gym because that was the only way to beat him, before that though hitting the gym was almost unheard of.  With a few exceptions it was the same in Mario's early years.

Thanks for the Jay Caulfield reference. I talked last night with NHL linesman Pat Dapuzzo about this thread. "Mario is the best I ever saw on ice." Pat then reminded me about the all the work Jay did with Mario on his comeback. So lets say the man does have some dedication and passion for the game. He put the work into his body after he beat CANCER. Just a reminder about one of Mario's life experiences that oh, nobody else in the league has had to LIVE THROUGH.

Kovy, first you say Mario has no skills, now you say no passion. I am just waiting for you to say he was lucky to get all those points. I watched Kovalev stickhandle in a phonebooth with the NYR in his early years but he had a ton of trouble putting it all together. And BTW, the captain of his team was Mark Messier, so lets just say he had someone to show him the way and chose not to. Dedication, passion, hmmm? Kovalev has a world of talent and a checkered career to show for it.

Cough . . Saku Koivu cough cough ;)

It's hard to also knock his, Mario's not Kovy's, dedication, especially when he had to have a trainer tie his skates because he couldn't bend over to do it himself. If he didn't have dedication he would have given up well before that.

[DarkStar50 679]

We all remember him coming back from cancer, which was a great accomplishment.

Its just too bad that he has acted like he has through his career,

And frankly, I don't like how it is downgraded of his laziness, lack of practice, and passion. he has an obligation to the fans, his teammates, and organization to work hard and set an example. And to himself! Maybe I am old school, but I find it a travasty when someone only replies in skill to get by, when they can offer more.

"Obligation to the fans, teammates, and organization."

Didn't he save the friggin' team from going under? There is your dedication to the fans, teammates, organization, or was that selfish just so he would have some place to skate?

[DarkStar50 679]

He did that to get his money back.

And yes, to look good.

I have more respect for Jed Ortmayer and I truly mean that. Only things I respect Mario for is beating cancer and learning the English language flawlessly.

Theo,

Those first two sentences are ridiculous. He DIDN'T get all his money back. He lost money. "to look good." C'mon, don't blow your credibility with a comment like that. Now we say Mario is so vain that he saved the team "to look good?" No passion, just wanted "to look good." Doesn't care about fans, teammates, organization, just wanted "to get his money back." Doesn't care about fans, teammates, organization, just wanted "to look good."

Have you ever met Mario? I have a good friend who knows Mario very well. He has helped out Mario on the West Coast when the Pens were in San Jose. Mario always treated my friend like first class. Mario owed nothing to my friend, my friend owed nothing to Mario. Just treat someone as you would want to be treated and the favor will come back to you. "Play it forward." I do not know Mario personally but for either of us to continue this thread acting like we do understand him and know his passion, his dedication, his commitment is getting a bit silly.

PS, leave Jed Ortmayer out of this!! Just kidding, Theo!!!!!!

[chippa13 1844]

He did that to get his money back.

And yes, to look good.

I have more respect for Jed Ortmayer and I truly mean that. Only things I respect Mario for is beating cancer and learning the English language flawlessly.

No, he did that to save hockey in Pittsburgh. Had Mario not stepped up then the Pens would surely be in another city today. That selfish bastard.

[Chadd 916]

We all remember him coming back from cancer, which was a great accomplishment. 

Its just too bad that he has acted like he has through his career,

And frankly, I don't like how it is downgraded of his laziness, lack of practice, and passion.  he has an obligation to the fans, his teammates, and organization to work hard and set an example.  And to himself!  Maybe I am old school, but I find it a travasty when someone only replies in skill to get by, when they can offer more.

"Obligation to the fans, teammates, and organization."

Didn't he save the friggin' team from going under? There is your dedication to the fans, teammates, organization, or was that selfish just so he would have some place to skate?

In his first interviews he said the main reason he took was trying to take over the team was to get his money back. I thought the part in the initial restructuring where they didn't pay any of the other former players owed deferred compensation was particularly classless since that's exactly what his status was.

Considering what the franchise has done since he took over I still believe they would have been better off with other ownership in another city. Oh by the way, they say they will lose $7M this year even if they make the second round of the playoffs.

[Mach1 0]

Hi, Im new here, and I did not read this entire thread, but I have to say that any Top 50 List that Has Mario Lemieux at number 23 instantly loses all credibility, period.

[Mach1 0]

Screw the points!! Can  66 and 87 play the game? YES!!!!!!!!

Is Mario Top 5 all-time? Yes!!!!!!!!

Mario had all the tools to be #1 all time but never put in the work to get there.

Mario is number one all time. Name a player with more natural talent.....yeah, there arent any.

[Mach1 0]

Kovy,

You are fighting a losing battle with your comments about Lemieux.  If that is your opinion that is fine, but I honestly have to say that is one of the dumbest things I have EVER heard.  To say any of those players has more skill the Mario is ridiculous.  Mario lived off of skill his first 10 years in the league.  He might be THE most skilled player ever.  You can have your opinion, but my opinion is thats it the craziest thing I have ever heard.  Based solely on skill, Mario is the best ever.  The reason many (not all) consider Gretzky the better player is because of his drive.  Very few try to argue that Gretz had better skill.

Best because of what, his points or his talent?

Is Mario a better stickhandler/shooter/skater than Kovalchuk?

Is Mario a better stickhandler/shooter/skater than Kovalev?

Is Mario a better stickhandler/shooter/skater than Fedorov?

Is Mario a better stickhandler/shooter/skater than Jagr?

Just share your thoughts and don't just tell me what I say is dumb.

YES, he is! You cleary never watched Mario on a regular basis, and thus have no idea of his extraordianry talents. Mario could get more points in a game with his eyes closed than Jagr could working his ass off.

WHY! Skill and talent. Best ever, period, end of discussion.

[Mach1 0]

Except that the top 50 list is for this specific year ;)

Maybe noone else has more natural talent, but IMO I'll take Gretzky and Orr above him.

I think Mario is going to surprise a lot of people this year. I think he is capable of winning the scoring race, not many people can throw together a string of 4,5,6 point games like Lemieux can. If he stays healthy, and the "new look" pens get some chemistry, look out.

[Kovy_Ribs_Fedo 3]

Except that the top 50 list is for this specific year ;)

Maybe noone else has more natural talent, but IMO I'll take Gretzky and Orr above him.

I think Mario is going to surprise a lot of people this year. I think he is capable of winning the scoring race, not many people can throw together a string of 4,5,6 point games like Lemieux can. If he stays healthy, and the "new look" pens get some chemistry, look out.

Yeah you are right, even on the bench he can score. ;) (according to Chadd)

[Mach1 0]

Its just too bad that he has acted like he has through his career, because he had such potential to be a great role model. Maybe that is where my resentment comes from the most. He had such potential to be an even greater player but more importantly a greater role model, teammate, hockey ambassador, etc. Everything Gretzky did do. But Mario beat to his own drum and only at the end of the career did he realize how much hold he really had.

So you dont respect the guy because he isnt "perfect"? Thats ignorant. Nobody is perfect. Who are you to judge why Mario acted the way he did? Maybe he didnt want to be a role model, in the spotlight, work out, whatever....

As far as Im concerned, thats his business and I'm not going to knock on him for that, ever. You really shouldnt judge somebody without walking in thier shoes, as you have no idea what is going through their head.

But we can all judge him by his performance on the ice, and if a hockey player ever had eyes in the back of his head, it was Mario Lemieux.

[Mach1 0]

Except that the top 50 list is for this specific year ;)

Maybe noone else has more natural talent, but IMO I'll take Gretzky and Orr above him.

I think Mario is going to surprise a lot of people this year. I think he is capable of winning the scoring race, not many people can throw together a string of 4,5,6 point games like Lemieux can. If he stays healthy, and the "new look" pens get some chemistry, look out.

Yeah you are right, even on the bench he can score. ;) (according to Chadd)

Thats bullshit. Im sure there are way more people who keep very strict tabs on those sorts of things. Im not saying that there was never a mistake made in handing out points, but to infer that Lemieux had some kind of unfair advantage over others and was consistently awarded points that werent his is simply ridiculous.

[Mach1 0]

I never had the opportunity to watch grets in his prime, so I am reluctant to comment on his play, but Mario has always done things that most people could never and has always amazed me.

Do you think if Mario wins the scoring race he deserves to be higher than #23 on the top 50 list?

Do you think he has the potential to win the scoring race?

[Kovy_Ribs_Fedo 3]

I think people were more afraid to hook Lemieux than to hit him and with the new rules, they won't be able to hook him without having a 2 minutes. If they choose to hit him, he might be more injured than before.

[Fedorov91 0]

Well back to the original topic... Glad to see my boy Sergei in the top 25 ;) it's also nice to see Draper on that list as well.

I'm hoping that Anaheim does some things this year... with Fedorov, Selanne, Niedermayer, Sykora, and Ozolinsh it seems like they should have a pretty quick team.

[mack 44]

Plus they have some young talent coming in.

[Sven 1]

They just need a new logo (and name).

[Adam91 0]

Before the lockout I remember it being reported they were going to have new jerseys and possibly a new name. I guess that hasn't happened. Anyone heard anything about it?

[thunderbirds_are_go 0]

I haven't heard anything new about a name change, but I do remember that they said that it wouldn't happen for at least a season after hockey resumed.

[shute 4]

with the way they are allowed to play these days it might as well be called "disney on ice".

[iron Ghost 0]

First of all I would like to say that this is one of the better looooong post that I have read (and yes, I read every post). I respect everyones opinions and decided to give a few of my own. Here goes

1. Goalies got the shaft on this list

2. Lidstrom and Pronger are neck and neck as far as top notch Dmen. Lidstrom isnt near the physical presence that pronger is but he will most definitely stop you (without necesarily checking you into the boards). Both have huge offensive upsides as well. Blake is awesome at both ends of the ice, period. I disagree with comments that Niedermeyer is over rated. I think that he has always been more than solid and will continue to get better (especially in the NEW NHL). Theres your top 4.

3. Iggy as the #1 was a good pick. What he and the flames did together was amazing. simply amazing! Not only is Iggy a superb player but what a leader. He lead as one of the greatest men to ever wear a captains "C" in my NHL watching days. He falls into a category now IMO that has names such as Yzerman, Messier, Gretzky, etc.

4. Man did I like the Nash Ranking at #15. Maybe Im biased being in C-bus and watching him on a daily basis but all I can say to those who dont know is just wait. This kid is a bona fide super star. If Sid the kid doesnt live up to his hype Nash will certainly fill that void in the media. (side note whoever said earlier where's zherdev..... My thoughts on that are next year he will be there. He still needs to play a more north american game but lemme tell you all, He is the New federov in case you didnt know. Just wait).

5. Heatly!!! That man should certainly have been ranked much higher. Who cares about worlds? when it comes to a regular NHL season this man is butter and will continue to put up HUGE #s in the future. He will only get better in Ottawa when he has more skill around him and less pressure from other teams top D constantly checking him.

6. I woulda liked to have seen Sundin a lil higher ranked as well. How many straight 70+ pt seasons has that man come up with. Hes STILL in his prime in case anyone hasnt noticed.

7. Crosby shouldnt have been ranked. As noted before he hasn't played a NHL game yet. HOWEVER, The kid can definitely skate and has a great sense for the game. I think that he will excel in the league especially with the Offense that Pitt will have this year. He still shouldnt be ranked untill he plays in the NHL.

8.Im glad that THN threw Primeau a bone. Hes a force and actually finished last NHL season. Certain skills dont show up on a stat sheet.

9.Scott Hannan over Foote???? Thats absurd. Hannan will be a great D man for a # of years and will probably get better over time. Foote is a proven warior and has found an offensive side as of recent. Ask yourself, who would you rather battle in the corner??? Obvious answer.

10. Ryan Smyth IMO falls into that Primeau category. He should be ranked higher.

11. Can you really be ranked #41 and fail your team physical all at the same time??

************* Note this is where I will start to take some flak***************

12. LEMIEUX: who cares about work ethic the man can play, Period! Youngn's need to keep their mouths shut when grown folk are talkin'. If you have only watched 10-15 games then you have Nothing to say about this man. The only comparisons about him that need to be made are to Gretzky. Mario had it all and also, was a beast on the puck for those of you who claim he was never hit. HE'S HUGE!!! I've watched NHL D do everything in their power (legal and Illegal) to knock him off the puck and it simply doesnt work!!! He's an AWESOME skater, passer, stickhandler, and shooter (and yes, he played D as well for those who claimed he never back checked). I have seen many cases of 66 putting his head down and making the play in his own end. Hear me loud, He will be great in the new NHL!!! The man was able to put up multi point nights with nothing but minor league caliber players around him in a clutch and grab league. Imagine what we will witness with No obstruction, NHL caliber stars (not players, stars), and a Kid named sid (answer = Points). That whole 1 on 1 argument was terrible (sorry but it was). The argument that he bought the team to look good was awful as well (who takes on that type of headache to look good????). You donate a big check to the salvation army to Look good. You buy a franchise like Pittsburgh because you care (IMO). Im sure the man had $ in the bank so I doubt that it was for the money owed him either (these are my opinions).

13. Kovalchuk: Man is he AWESOME! Let me say that again so that you all will know that Im a fan HE'S AWESOME. I like where they ranked him as well. Now, I will present you all with my Kovalchuk theory (and I know that you all will eat me alive for this one) ....... ready?? Here goes....... THE MAN HAS THE WORST SCORING TOUCH IN THE NHL!!!!!!! How can I say this you ask? I'll explain. He is the best talent that I have seen in a long time. Hes got gexplosive speed, excellent hands, vision, a shot, and that Pavel Bure look in his eye when the puck touches his stick ( you know that I'm gonna walk all over you and score look). Hes so good that he creates 5 scoring opportunites for himself per shift (and Im not talking shoot through a screen scoring opps Im talking "I crapped on my defender at the top of the circle and now it's just you and me goalie" scoring opportunities). So why doesn't the man score even more goals than he already does?? Other goal scorers in the league will score once in a game with only 3 opportunites period in a game (thats one/period). Kovy gets 5 per shift and will score on one. Like I said before I'M a huge fan of this man, BUT, I think that he's got an aweful scoring touch.

Rip me to shreds, Ill enjoy it. I just wanted to share my theory. This is an awesome post.

[Mach1 0]

Mario is 40, not 38.

Of course he whined. If your him and you are looking at a breakaway with the goalie and thinking about how your going to undress him, and then all of a sudden you have a stick pulling you down, wouldnt you be frustrated? And he never complained about getting beat up.

Why were the rules that already exist never enforced? "garage leauge" come to mind.

Mario tells it like it is, too bad some people cant face reality.