Yet, another Radius topic

[jimmy 194]

At what age shold a child's skates be profiiled, if at all?  If they should what radius should you use?  will it help there skating skills at such a youg age (9)?

Contrary to the myth that youth skates do not need to be profiled or radiused, just the opposite is true. I recommend all youths learn to skate with a properly radius and pitched skate. No sense developing bad habits/body stance when you are young, it will haunt you later in life. Youths learn easy, bad habits as well. I can't even count the number of testimonials from parents who noticed drastic improvements after a PROPER radius/pitch was put on their child's skates.

I won't even go into proper matching of left/right radius's.

The thing is, until you've seen how a kid skates on non-profiled skates, you can't know what the proper profile will be. It would be foolish for parents to be profiling and reprofiling their 7 years olds skates trying to find the right combination. It's better to leave the skates unprofiled until tendencies can be identified.

Two things. Most skate pairs the radius is not matched between left and right. So, even if you do not know the skater at all, the blades should be matched. Second, the skater can be properly evaluated through a series of questions, both from the parents and the skater themselves. A good radius technician should be able to "ballpark" a good starting point, and them just have to make minor adjustments after recieving feedback.

[chippa13 1844]

Most new skaters and even their parents can't analyze their skating until they have skated for a few years. The best solution for young skaters would be to learn to skate on a neutral profile and then look for tendencies after they have conquered the basics of balance and stance.

[jimmy 194]

http://www.exn.ca/video/?video=exn20021125-skatesharpen.asx

[cobrAA 0]

nice vid

[JR Boucicaut 3795]

Thought Bob Allen and Maximum-Edge was "smoke and mirrors." ;)

Anyway, most of these parents don't even know what to look for or how to answer your question...like I said, I'll go out there and check out the kid myself.

[jimmy 194]

Actually. most of the parents im my area do know very well how to answer questions. Most of the dads have played hockey themselves, and the coaches give good feedback to the parents who are there six times a week watching their kids and others. I have no problems getting the info I need to know to get a good starting point. Sometimes adjustments and tweaks are needed, but since I don't charge extra for adjustments, it's not a big deal. The end result is the kids are skating better.

I don't believe it was me that said max edge was smoke and mirrors. The fact that they say that all other methods and sharpeners are inferior because they don't use his so-called method is a bit pompus, as well as incorrect. But, you'll never see me say radiusing or profiling is not a good thing for everyone. THINK, what if everyone only had one choice of a stick curve (and it was a Thornton) What percentage of players would have perfect powerful shots and stickhandling with that curve, 2% perhaps. The other 98% would still be able to use it but not at optimum performance. A custom radius is nothing more that the same as finding that stick curve that works best for you.

[JR Boucicaut 3795]

I understand what you are saying, trust me. I am merely commenting on my clientele...they come in and are like "I need my kid's skates profiled." Don't know why, but some other parent got his kid's skates profiled so it's the "in" thing to do.

Then they go to a place who serves everyone the same flavor.

And I am pretty positive you said it was smoke and mirrors...and that's okay!

[Chadd 916]

I understand what you are saying, trust me. I am merely commenting on my clientele...they come in and are like "I need my kid's skates profiled." Don't know why, but some other parent got his kid's skates profiled so it's the "in" thing to do.

Then they go to a place who serves everyone the same flavor.

And I am pretty positive you said it was smoke and mirrors...and that's okay!

I've said similar things about M-E, just about everyone I know who has talked to him has said that.

[jimmy 194]

I understand what you are saying, trust me. I am merely commenting on my clientele...they come in and are like "I need my kid's skates profiled." Don't know why, but some other parent got his kid's skates profiled so it's the "in" thing to do.

Then they go to a place who serves everyone the same flavor.

And I am pretty positive you said it was smoke and mirrors...and that's okay!

Who knows, I may have said smoke and mirrors but never in the context of radiusing skates, a radius adjustment is not smoke and mirrors. It's a proven concept. How it is applied and who does it is a whole nuther story. As you said, it may be the "in thing" to do as far as parents are concerned to keep up with the Jones's, but I fault the radius tech for not properly explaining it to them when they do decide to get it done.

[JR Boucicaut 3795]

Oh, totally agree.

[jimmy 194]

Oh, totally agree.

Don't you guys do radiusing at your store? You would think it's be popular in MI

[JR Boucicaut 3795]

We have two stores in our 7-store chain that does it. My stuff is on order from Blackstone apparently.

I'll believe it when I see it. Smoke and mirrors, baby!

[sogaduch 0]

bob does make alot of sense when you talk too him, hes very knowledgeable. ive even had one customer who didnt believe me when i was talking about the benefit of having a smooth edge.so i called up bob and luckily the trainer of the detroit red wings was there paul boyer who thoroughly believes in M-E. Id like to have my skates contoured by M-E to see how it is just for fun. Needless to say the customer was astonished about what he was told and now believes in the stoning of the skate blade before each game. the one sharpening technique i believe to not be that great is the laser sharpening

[Chadd 916]

When Bob started telling me I would be better having a couple of table top machines, then pay extra for his personal exhaust, his cross grinder, etc...than I would be with a double or triple head system,he lost a lot of credibility

[sogaduch 0]

*misread*

yeah i would also, to be honest your better off talking to his son michael if im not mistaken,i believe hes pretty much running the show there now.his son is more down to earth

Edited October 22, 2005 by sogaduch

[Chadd 916]

well how many skates do you sharpen during a day chadd?

Not as many as your dad's shop, but I don't have the space for all of the crap he wanted me to buy. Not to mention the stuff I have is much nicer than his pile of crap.

[sogaduch 0]

well how many skates do you sharpen during a day chadd?

Not as many as your dad's shop, but I don't have the space for all of the crap he wanted me to buy. Not to mention the stuff I have is much nicer than his pile of crap.

i misread what u put chadd i edited it right after i posted. i agree that id be a waste to get the table machine and exhaust and all that $hit, a 3 head machine is all you need. we have 2-3 head machines just cause the amount we do but id say you just need a 3 head machine and a shop vac or even the blademaster exhaust thats inside

[Kovy_Ribs_Fedo 3]

Another question, do you guys know NHLers that are/were playing with radius lower than 9?

Edited October 22, 2005 by Kovy_Ribs_Fedo

[XeF4 0]

when do you know that you need a longer radius and when do you know that you need a shorter radius?

when do you know that you need your skates pitched forward and when do you know that you need them backwards?

[jimmy 194]

when do you know that you need a longer radius and when do you know that you need a shorter radius?

when do you know that you need your skates pitched forward and when do you know that you need them backwards?

You have to experiment with the different radius/pitches and see which works best for you, similar to how you experiment with stick curves. Your radius tech should be able to evaluate you to get a good starting point.

[XeF4 0]

what factors are used in determining whats a good starting point for both pitch and radius?

[jimmy 194]

- experience

- ability

- strength

- height

- position

- style

- type skate

- hollow

- personal preferences

and more...

Don't ask how each is evaluated, we have to keep some trade secrets! if we gave that info away for free how would M.E. suck all that money out of you for training and equipment. :)

[XeF4 0]

I see.

[Neo5370 132]

I finally got a chance to watch the video in this thread, and it was very interesting but is it anything most sharpeners haven't known for years?

[jimmy 194]

The movie benefits the skaters, most don't have a clue that they even have choices. They just give the skates to the guy and he takes them and does what he wants. But I have to say, a lot of sharpeners are clueless as well. JR is always talking about some guy in his area who gives everyone the same radius.