Ice Time in Bear League

[sonsplayhockey 0]

I run the offense on our Adult League. This is my first year doing this on a new team. No one else seemed to have the leadership skills or gonads to do it so I volunteered. When we had odd number of forwards, I was rotating say the wingers instead of running set lines. Some goofballs could not get things straight so I started double shifting some players (the better ones). Couple guys bitched about ice time last night and I let it slide. I plan to reward good play with more ice time so our team does not get crushed all the time. Anyone else get in that situation. I had one player ask why he was always on 4th line (yea, our roster is way too big) and I told him because he's slow. He dissagreed but if you were to see him skate, you'd think someone was sliding a statue across the ice.

If I were running the team next year, I"d be a hard a$$ and have try outs instead of "who's playing this year". Some of these guys skate in 2 speeds, slow and stop. Those goofs don't show up for practice or spend the time on skills or pick up like the others.

Anyone have similar situations? Can you give me some one liners to give to these goofs?

[freq019 0]

i'd say equal time for equal pay, but these guys don't come to practice and what not then I don't see how they could imagine getting top minutes. Maybe you should ask them to look into a lower tier team where they could still play half-a$$ed but get more ice time? Or ask some of them if they want to form their own team since your roster is larger than you would desire. We had an oldtimer our out team that was like a statue but the league policy is equal time, so we had to play him, it was like being shorthanded every shift he was out there. It was frustrating but its a beer league what can you do? Winning is nice but getting some exercise and having fun is what its about. Good luck

[Smith 0]

Where luckey if we have some kind of lines set up, If you pay you play. Everybody should play the same amout. Remeber it is just for fun. More so on lower level leagues.

[chippa13 1844]

Who the hell has practices for beer league?

You show up, play a game, have a couple beers and then it's "See you next game".

[golfpuck 0]

well you shouldnt have said

I told him because he's slow

if he's paid his fair share of money, he gets to have as much fun as the next guy

but its hard when you have odd # of guys

1) if you have 2 extra guys, i think it is pretty standard to rotate centers.. e.g. ever other shift, and wingers go every 3, winger's kill penalties.

2) if we have 1 extra guy, we'll rotate the 1 guy through the lines or play 3 def, and scenario 1

we had a game were we used #1, but we had so many penalties the centers almost didnt see the ice due to penalties, sadly our best players...

[Ogie Oglethorpe 14]

Equal pay, equal pay.

Typically, the way around this is when you have an odd amount of players. For instance, 2 centers, 3 sets of wings might occur because someone misses. So, you put your best players in at center, and they go out every other shift, while the wingers every third.

However, like others have pointed out, it is beer league. Everyone pays the same amount, so even if they suck, they should get the same playing time (roughly speaking). Towards the end of the game, I have sometimes asked for a vote if they wanted to stack a line if the game is on the line. OR... if it's a play off game, then sometimes I ask ahead of time (stack for PP, PK, or just shorten time for some in general).

In the end, your target should be to finish at .500 and be with good group. I've played on winners before and found that some come at the expense of the locker-room beer time. I value b-sing in the lockerroom (and generally goofing around after the game over beers). I don't want to lose each and every game, but I'm willing to give up some W's if it means a better time with better people (even if they're not better players).

Next up, you're going to get people complaining about people staying out for too long and who they're paired with. Comes with the territory.

[Ogie Oglethorpe 14]

OH! And 4 lines in beer league? Oooofff.... I've never been on a team with more than 15 (and since it's beer league, rarely all 15 show). 4 lines? Brutal, juice!

[sonsplayhockey 0]

Just to make things clear, the only time anyone gets EXTRA ice time is when we have odd # of players. Then I rotate the guys doing double shifts based on who can hack it and who's playing well. IE, if I have 8 guys, one does a double shift 1 period, then I pick another guy for the 2nd period etc.

We're pretty much at the bottom tier.

I tried rotating for 3 games (one period rotate LW, 1 period rotate RW, switch a player and rotate again). They were too confused and I even had it on a clipboard!

We had previously voted (we do alot of polls) if we wanted to sit the slowest guy on the PK and all but 2 said yes. Thats what we do not. Only issue is some people think they are faster than they really are. We had also voted that penalty time is ice time so if you get in the box, you are eating your own ice time. Penalties went down dramatically after that.

The team is the outgrowth of a beginner HNA team that people were "assigned" to the team. Only issue is when they formed a new team they let everyone join, so we have some slower folks that not only slack but are pain in the butts in thier comments on how someone else is making all the mistakes.

Don't get me wrong, we're 0-5 but for the most part, everything is positive and most everyone is improving. Just a few are grumbling. The better players are very possitive and I don't want to see them jump ship. I figure if the Jr players can't get the concept of rotating, I'll just do set lines and get the better players more ice. I've gone so far as to exclude myself in the extra shifts as to not be stacking the lines in my favor.

Do I sound like an A-hole? Or am I being fair in this?

[chippa13 1844]

If you have an odd number of forwards then just run a guy through the lines. It's quite easy. First shift, he goes for the left wing and the left wing sits. Next shift he goes for the center, and so on, until all 4 of those guys have sat a shift. Then the extra guy runs through the second line, etc, etc...........

[sonsplayhockey 0]

Good idea chippa13 but if I do that, I'll have at least 3 too many men on the ice penalties. Last game when I rotated just the left wingers, I had people jumping ahead, 1 penalty and almost a fight over who was next (even though I had it on the clip board and told the centers to establish it before it was the end of shift 2 ahead of them). Thats what I'm dealing with here. The guys im having the issue with (3 of them) have only played one season of about 10 games before this.

[Sid 3]

I can't tell you how many times I have seen this. I know there are better guys on a beer league team but you win and lose as a team. If the lesser player is willing to make some scrifice and offer a shift here or there for the good of the team (i.e in the last five minutes of the game when your down) then great but if not then you have to balance your lines. If you just stack one line with allstar players then you are leaving yourself exposed with the lesser players on other lines and if you try to compensate with giving the allstar line more ice time then you are being unfair to people that have payed good money for hockey. Balance your lines with a mix, it may mean you have to work twice as hard. If there is such a difference of level I would suggest being asked to be moved up in a division where you find the skill level better. Beer leagues are meant to be fun and so you can share a joke and a beer about "oh man did you whiff on that shot or what". One other thing I hate about beer leagues (not pertaining to this post) but guys whoe spend 3-5 minutes on the ice. If you are out there that long then you are not skating hard enough.

Sid

[Sid 3]

If you have an odd number of forwards then just run a guy through the lines. It's quite easy. First shift, he goes for the left wing and the left wing sits. Next shift he goes for the center, and so on, until all 4 of those guys have sat a shift. Then the extra guy runs through the second line, etc, etc...........

I am also amazed at how guys that play in beer leagues can't do math. Sometimes rotating shifts is like rocket science!

Sid

[freq019 0]

4 lines is a bit much, if people want more ice time I am sure there teams that are short and would like some extra bodies. I've played enough 7 man games where even a statue would be nice so you could get a breather.

[mack 44]

I wish any team I've been on had problems with too many people. We get a few no-shows and sometimes it's been so bad that I've had to ration out and play a whole period.

[golfpuck 0]

i would suspect the real problem is the 4 lines

this means your playing every 4-5 minutes of clock time.

if you were running 12 minute stop time periods, the 4th liners might get on twice a period.. and if you get in to penalty trouble, one guy may only get 1 shift in a period

and that doesnt help any one...

[Chadd 916]

i would suspect the real problem is the 4 lines

this means your playing every 4-5 minutes of clock time.

if you were running 12 minute stop time periods, the 4th liners might get on twice a period..  and if you get in to penalty trouble, one guy may only get 1 shift in a period

and that doesnt help any one...

Good point. Start a new team next season and only invite the guys who aren't a pain int he ass and most importantly, have fewer "regular" players. Having a few subs that you can call on helps out, especially if guys let you know ahead of time if they won't make it.

I hate losing more than anyone I've ever met but I'd rather lose with guys I like than win with assholes. It's a rec league and you should be having fun, if you're not then you need to resolve it one way or another.

[Ogie Oglethorpe 14]

I hate losing more than anyone I've ever met but I'd rather lose with guys I like than win with assholes. It's a rec league and you should be having fun, if you're not then you need to resolve it one way or another.

Testify! Can a brutha get a hell yeah and an amen to that?

[Fury of One 6]

I play in a Sunday beer league and I'm fortunate enough to play with a good group of guys. We just won the championship 2 weeks ago after going 11-1 in the regualr season. We just work well together as a team and we roll 3 lines of forwards and D-men. When it was a tight game or in the playoffs, the "weaker" guys were more than willing to miss a shift for the benefit of the team. So when next season starts, they are going to get the first shifts of the game.

[sonsplayhockey 0]

I hate losing more than anyone I've ever met but I'd rather lose with guys I like than win with assholes. It's a rec league and you should be having fun, if you're not then you need to resolve it one way or another.

Testify! Can a brutha get a hell yeah and an amen to that?

I agree,

My only issue with the members is the jerks are the crappy players. Bi^ching that they don't start or play on the PP or PK. Then critique the better players about things they have no clue on. Incidently, I don't always start the best forwards. My first line is usually the mediocer players who aren't Bi^ching but are trying thier best.

[Chadd 916]

I hate losing more than anyone I've ever met but I'd rather lose with guys I like than win with assholes. It's a rec league and you should be having fun, if you're not then you need to resolve it one way or another.

Testify! Can a brutha get a hell yeah and an amen to that?

I agree,

My only issue with the members is the jerks are the crappy players. Bi^ching that they don't start or play on the PP or PK. Then critique the better players about things they have no clue on. Incidently, I don't always start the best forwards. My first line is usually the mediocer players who aren't Bi^ching but are trying thier best.

We just roll our lines. The only time we ever make a change is if we need a goal in the last two minutes.

[RadioGaGa 162]

I just re-read the subject line...

what's worse...

The Panda LW...

The Polar Bear on RW...

or the Grizzly playing D?

/type-o's are funny

//meh!

[Chadd 916]

I just re-read the subject line...

what's worse...

The Panda LW...

The Polar Bear on RW...

or the Grizzly playing D?

/type-o's are funny

//meh!

The Koala in net.

[kasparaitis 0]

If we have 6 forwards on my team, we'll rotate two lines, if we have 7 or 8 forwards, we'll play pick up hockey style. This usually gives everyone equal ice time. We try to do 1:30 - 2minute shifts. And our D has a minimum of 4 guys each game, if we don't have an extra D, someone drops back. We always try to mix up the forwards so the slower players play with two stronger guys. Thats pretty much it. Everyone paid the same, which is a little under 600$ *US for the long season. And it's completely wrong to cut someones ice time based on skill. I can see calling a timeout late in the game if you're down a goal or two, and asking everyone as a group, can we stack the lines. This way, everyone has a say.

[NuggyBuggy 0]

Sonsplayhockey - we are in almost the same boat. I am the captain of a very low-level adult rec team, I'm by far one of the better players but we have a bunch of guys who only learned to skate last year and it shows. We are also sitting at the bottom of the league standings, mostly because we have more bad players than the other teams.

Anyways - we have so far endeavoured to try as hard as possible to keep ice time more or less equal.

At first I was running games pick-up style, forwards are assigned to a position and take over for the guy at the same position. We had a huge problem here because some guys were real ice hogs and wouldn't get off for 3-5 minutes, and would be pissed off when you took them off. THen of course the 2 guys behind him are pissed off...

We had a lot of grousing that guys wanted to run set lines. I resisted this at first because it's difficult when guys show up or not as is convenient to them, but finally I gave in. This actually solved a lot of my problems, partly because it forced the guys to be accountable to the other guys on their line, and partly because if you stay on a long time it's painfully obvious that you did because the lines are screwed up as a result.

Each game I will draw up a lineup where I try to keep the lines as constant *as possible* from week to week. If we're missing guys I will sometimes call up subs, partly to help keep the lines constant. We just don't have guys who can skate hard every other shift for a full game (we play 3 x 15-min stop-time).

Also I told the team at the outset that if we were behind but close, late in the last 2 or 3 minutes, I reserved the right to send out a stacked line. In the past I have always made sure that I did NOT go out on that line, even though I am one of our best players, partly because I was worried about appearances (for this reason, I always make my line the "3rd" line, and go out last - I figure it costs one shift at most but looks good to everyone else). Now I think I have enough of their trust that I could go on in a stacked situation and noone would question me for it. Fortunately, or unfortunately, our team has not often been close so we have never had to this.

But PPs and PKs are another issue entirely. I am certain we would do better if we put our best guys out on PPs and PKs, but unfortunately the guys best suited for those roles happen to be the same guys, so they would get way more ice time. I have therefore decided not to send out PP and PK lines, even though I am sure it is costing us some games.

Also a dilemma I have is that usually we put our best skaters either at C or D. There is a significant drop-off in skill between those positions and my wings. Now when we get a penalty, the agreement we are working with is that the penalized position sits. It seemed equitable. But there is a difficulty when say it's the C that gets penalized, because now we're short-handeded AND we have two weak skaters up at forward AND we have two more of our better players (Cs) sitting on the bench for the rest of the penalty as well. So far we have lived with that too, but again it's costing us. I just can't see us jiggering the lines to send out an effective PK/PP line because that's going to cost our weaker skaters ice time and they just wouldn't be happy.

Setting ice time is really tough, it's a thankless job and I hate it. We have a few guys who are real team guys who have said, "if the game is on the line I do not want to be on the ice, put one of our better players on in place of me", but we also have a few fragile nickel-and-dime guys who get pissed off when they see that we are playing 3 to the wing and only 2 to a center, and stay on extra long to make sure they get their "fair share" of ice time. Several times guys have been yelling at each other, and other times guys are fighting over who gets to go on next because they think they're being cheated.

On our team, some of the worst and/or laziest players are also the biggest complainers about ice time. Sometimes I want to tell them to go play pick-up hockey instead, where nobody knows you and nobody cares about how much ice time you get. I think part of the problem is that a lot of these guys have never played team sports so they think being a team player and getting the same amount of ice time are the same thing.

But all our guys paid equal money so I do think we owe it to them to get everyone a fair share of ice time. In the future, if my problem with grousing about ice time continues, I think we just might not invite the problem cases back to play with us. That's going to be another huge can of worms though...

[iceholes 0]

wow..4 lines... 2 max for most teams in my leagues with the occasional 11 skaters..

Its tough to tell someone who pays the same to sit.. some guys understand and offer up their "turn" for someone else on a PP or Kill... But I dont enforce it...they paid like me...its for fun right???

extra skater we run 2 lines and 5 D...

2 extra... equals 2 centers and 3 lines Wings...wings kill

Good teams will remember the basic fundamental hockey...bust azz for 40 seconds and look to switch, so minutes should not be an issue...

I control our offense and make lines... I never start a game. We take short shifting very serious.

It all depends how "serious" you wnat to get. We play hard but try to remember our fundamentals of line management and if we lose... well then we play next week!