Flat Feet and Skates

[jason@ewh 0]

I got the inserts on Saturday and have them in my skates, I have a game Tuesday evening so I intend to give them the full test then, but I did walk around in the house with them on and it does seem better.

My problem is that my arch is so flat that it causes my knees to turn in, more noticebly my right knee.... Ugh... I hate being flat footed.... lol

Go to your LHS and have your skates baked with the superfeet but don't put your superfeet in the boot oven. when the skates are hot put them on with the superfeet and stand after 3min and rock back and forth ever so slihtly. Sit back down after doing that for 1min that could help your problem.. I hope you bought the black superfeet and not the grey ones. vectors run narrow in the mid foot so going to the bauer might be somthing that your going to haft to do.

hope I could help.

[tsanga 0]

I hope you bought the black superfeet and not the grey ones.

What's wrong with the grey ones? Or rather what's better with the black ones?

[jason@ewh 0]

I hope you bought the black superfeet and not the grey ones.

What's wrong with the grey ones? Or rather what's better with the black ones?

I am not saying all the time but most of the time They work better with flatter feet.

[tsanga 0]

I hope you bought the black superfeet and not the grey ones.

What's wrong with the grey ones? Or rather what's better with the black ones?

I am not saying all the time but most of the time They work better with flatter feet.

Ah, wish I had known that. I have flat feet + grey Superfeet. This combo is a big improvement and pretty much lets me skate without pain, but still not perfect. I will have to try out the black ones next time.

[stevoc 0]

Wow, I have the same issue with my right foot, but I always thought it was because my right foot is slightly smaller than my left. But by looking at shute's feet, mine look to be the same, making them pretty flat I guess.

One thing I do is wear a thicker sock on my right foot when I skate. I only have to do this with one pair of skates I have. (I have two pairs of mission d2c's, but one pair is pretty broken in) Wearing a thicker sock on the not so broken in pair of skates seems to help.

[jason@ewh 0]

guys don't get me wrong just because your foot is flat means that you need the black. You need to look at your heel first. second look at your midfoot. your foot should not be sitting over the top of the foot bed. you also need to think about the skate you are in the cut of the boot. You might need to go with the grey.

[Gongshow11 1]

flat feet? get orthotics, it's like skating on a dream

[jason@ewh 0]

I got my self vack fit superfeet for my skates...and the rest is history.

[Louie 28]

Jason, do you have any recommendations on skates for flat fleet? I really hate to stray from CCM, because I like their products and customer service.

I do have a pair of custom orthodics that I wear in my shoes, would these be worth trying in a skate?

Also, I plan on getting my skates rebaked with the Grey insoles, if that doesn't work, I will purcahse the black superfeet and see if those will help at all....

[jason@ewh 0]

Jason, do you have any recommendations on skates for flat fleet? I really hate to stray from CCM, because I like their products and customer service.

I do have a pair of custom orthodics that I wear in my shoes, would these be worth trying in a skate?

Also, I plan on getting my skates rebaked with the Grey insoles, if that doesn't work, I will purcahse the black superfeet and see if those will help at all....

Eastons/or Nike or Bauer.. I would say stay away from your custom orthotics unless they are channeled...and take up the same volume...

[tsanga 0]

I would say stay away from your custom orthotics unless they are channeled...

What does this mean?

[shute 4]

if you have flat feet Kor is the answer. TRUST ME! you will have to bake them a few times to flatten the bottom out but it works.

[hockeymom 2]

I know several people who have custom orthotics in their skates and they solved the problem. Your shoe orthotics won't work; they do need to be specially made for your skate. If you go that route make sure you work with a podiatrist who has done skate orthotics before - they need to be narrower and thinner than a regular orthotic. The ideal is to already know the brand of skate, get the orthotic made for that specific skate dimensions and bake them with the orthotics in. Alternatively, the orthotics can be cut/shaped to fit the skate.

It is worth exploring superfeet because it is an excellent product and much less expensive....and in many, many cases is all someone needs. However, it doesn't sound like you'd consider wearing shoes without an orthotic....your feet take much more of a beating skating than they do walking. If the superfeet don't work, strongly consider getting an orthotic.

[Larry54 243]

...your feet take much more of a beating skating than they do walking.

I would have thought the opposite. In a skate, especially a stiff one, your foot is relatively immobile, and with proper skating technique you mostly glide across the ice so there is relatively no impact on the ground. Walking on the other hand has your feet pounding the pavement and moving across the floor in a rocking motion. I'm no podiatrist, but it was just a thought.

[Chadd 916]

I've played in 24 hour charity hockey games with no problems at all, but every time I go somewhere where I have to walk 5 or 6 miles in a couple days, my feet get more blisters than I can count. The worst part is, my new shoes fit perfectly, just like my skates.

[hockeymom 2]

OK, OK...possible I'm wrong on this one. But now I'm curious about this....I'll be visiting the podiatrist who also plays/specializes in hockey so I'll ask him (even tho I'll be subjecting myself to a 1/2 hour very detailed explanation, likely using diagrams with an excrutiating monotone delivery!). The personal sacrifices I am willing to undertake for MSH!

I'm the exact opposite...I can walk forever with no problems and don't need an orthotic in my shoes so the pounding up and down is no problem; but even with the glide, skating or roller blading for any length of time rapidly hurts. (maybe it is my incredibly pathetic technique..LOL)

My thinking is: the motion is different, opening your hips and pushing to the sides creates pressure on the instep/arch of the foot. And the energy also travels up your leg creating the knee and hip problems hockey players sometimes have. Both my podiatrist and sports physio-therapist have told me that most of the blown knee/hip problems originate in the feet.

[Trooper 8]

Do you know of a website that might have these excercises or could you provide some further explanation?

This article has pics of one-legged squats at the beginning and of step-ups when you scroll down.

http://www.defrancostraining.com/articles/...es_westside.htm

[Louie 28]

Well I got my skates rebaked this weekend and just from walking around they feel better, but the real test will come this evening in a game situation. I give major props to the folks at KO Sports in Pittsburgh... the service is just unbelievable! Two of the guys there spent around an hour and a half working with my skates and I. I asked about new skates and they said the One90 would help, but that there are a few other options before going that route, because to be frankly its expensive, you don't hear to many people telling you that when you go into a store now a days...

Thanks again to to everyone in this thread again... greatly appreciated...

[Chadd 916]

Sounds like they have new people working at Ko.

[Jim A 4]

Sole Footbeds also work well for flat feet (my feet aren't flat)...they make a slim sport one and also a few other versions..my Flexlite's are deep enough to use the normal one with 1.6mm of softec on it...for my 7000's I'd have used the slim series..

put em in the oven for 2min @ 200 and then place in the skates and mold...couldn't be easier...

[The Stranger 0]

Sole Footbeds also work well for flat feet (my feet aren't flat)...they make a slim sport one and also a few other versions..my Flexlite's are deep enough to use the normal one with 1.6mm of softec on it...for my 7000's I'd have used the slim series..

put em in the oven for 2min @ 200 and then place in the skates and mold...couldn't be easier...

I was just about to post about them. I ordered a pair yesterday. I have always had problems with my right foot, they seem like a good alternative to grinding down the stock insoles.

Sole Slim Sport

[hockeymom 2]

...your feet take much more of a beating skating than they do walking.

I would have thought the opposite. In a skate, especially a stiff one, your foot is relatively immobile, and with proper skating technique you mostly glide across the ice so there is relatively no impact on the ground. Walking on the other hand has your feet pounding the pavement and moving across the floor in a rocking motion. I'm no podiatrist, but it was just a thought.

Ok Chadd and Larry...Checked with the podiatrist. We all get to be "right" on this one. Yes, walking produces more "jarring" of the feet, so more people experience problems.

The issue of skating depends of the biomechanical problems with feet. Sometimes it is physically impossible to have proper technique because your foot is not in the neutral position inside the boot. It isn't so much flat feet - but the pronation of the foot and degree of the pronation (in simple terms, this is when the foot turns inward and is twisted from the ankle). Hockey requires a "pushing away" motion with the feet, and sudden stops. These repetitive actions place stress on the sides of the feet, arches, and ankles. Pronated feet (which usually is the cause of flat feet) do not distribute the stress and force over the entire foot - as would happen with "normal" feet - and the ankles are too flexible. Skates, even with the ankle "locked in", do not provide enough stability and protection for pronated feet without an orthotic. It again, depends on the degree of pronation.

Hockey also requires the foot, ankle, lower leg, and knee to function as one unit. This is physically impossible if the feet aren't in a neutral position and aligned correctly with the leg at the ankles. This means it is physically impossible to do the fluid and quick movements needed to stop and turn quickly. And means you will experience foot and ankle pain - most likely eventually leading to knee and hip pain.

As a throw-in...most heel spurs are caused by improper fitting skates - however the chances of developing heel spurs is dramatically increased if your foot is NOT in a neutral position in the skate...because your foot is twisted in the boot creating tension along the achilles tendon.

Finally...anyone with flat feet or pronation really should have an orthotic in their skates (as well as their shoes!!) - whether it is a mass-marketed one or a custom orthotic. It will help your technique and your health.

[tuzzifan44 0]

People that have flat feet can also have supination, just the opposite of pronation.

[Larry54 243]

Thanks for the additional insight hockeymom. I was curious as to what your podistrist was going to tell you.

[hockeymom 2]

People that have flat feet can also have supination, just the opposite of pronation.

You're right supination (under pronation) is the exact opposite, the foot goes out at the ankle and you'd walk more on the outside edges of your shoes. To my limited knowledge, and admittedly I didn't follow my podiatrist's explanation super closely here because I was focused on pronation/flat feet.... the issue with supination is more commonly high arches. With supination your foot is more rigid and the result can be more ankle and knee problems. Really need to keep flexibility of your hamstrings if you supinate. Orthotic inserts can help both problems.

The normal walking stride has both supination - the lift off from the toe - and pronation -the step down shock absorbing part when your arch flattens out. About half of all people fit in the normal range, roughly 20% supinate - and the rest pro-nate. Pronation is more associated with lower back pain and I believe supination is more associated with heel pain. You can tell by looking at the wear patterns on your old sneakers - if it on the outside and crooked: supinate - if it is worn down on the inside: pronate.

With either extreme you will have foot pain and trouble with skating technique. If you're having trouble getting an edge in crossovers, it might be worth looking into gait analysis to see if your foot fall (or tracking) is normal.