One90 Tendon Guard

[ag12 0]

I have tried on a pair of One90's and am pleased with the skate, but I have a question about the tendon guard. I believe on an earlier thread it was mentioned that the pro stock version has a stiffer guard. I was wondering if it would be possible to make the tendon guard on the retail version like the pro stocks? I understand that Bauer is listing in its marketing that the tendon guard is flexible to increase snap in the stride. I like to tape my tendon guard to my shinpads but with it so flexible it seems useless to do so. If it is possible to make it stiffer like a pro stock would their be any shops in the Boston area who would be able to do this?

[kovalchuk71 212]

You would have to order custom

[JR Boucicaut 3804]

No, you misunderstood. It is the same tendon guard. The retail one is just vented.

[nyr4life 0]

if you call up bauer im sure there is something that they can do for you

[Miike 1]

  nyr4life said:

if you call up bauer im sure there is something that they can do for you

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Yea what you call custom... Which will cost you more than retail.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

  Miike said:

  nyr4life said:

if you call up bauer im sure there is something that they can do for you

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Yea what you call custom... Which will cost you more than retail.

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Exactley to have a closed tendon guard you have to pay an extra 100.00

[ag12 0]

  JR Boucicaut said:

No, you misunderstood. It is the same tendon guard. The retail one is just vented.

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JR, thanks for clarifying, much appreciated.

[skates 3]

Actually Jr's liner in the tendon guard area should have been cut out like the retail version, the pro shop early on did not think is was worth while doing.

Some pros have asked for a stiffer tendon guard because they are used to it and they are built slightly defferent.

We promote a flexible tendon guard to increase your range of motion for increased foot extension. A simple excersise is to point your toes down when your skates are tied up, now do the same on your other foot with a stiff tendon guard and or with a forward rake angle. You will understand which one will give you more push off power very easily.

[ag12 0]

  skates said:

Actually Jr's liner in the tendon guard area should have been cut out like the retail version, the pro shop early on did not think is was worth while doing.

Some pros have asked for a stiffer tendon guard because they are used to it and they are built slightly defferent.

We promote a flexible tendon guard to increase your range of motion for increased foot extension.  A simple excersise is to point your toes down when your skates are tied up, now do the same on your other foot with a stiff tendon guard and or with a forward rake angle.  You will understand which one will give you more push off power very easily.

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Thanks for the additional information. I'm still stuck with the idea of a stiffer tendon guard, which is why I have decided to stick with my 8000's and not purchase the One90's. I understand the concept behind the flexible tendon guard. But when deciding to drop $600 for the One90's versus keeping my 8000's it became a question of will these skates be that much better than the 8000's. I'm not quite convinced of that yet. I think they are very comfortable skates otherwise and would have made the purchase had the tendon guard been stiffer.

[djinferno 2]

  ag12 said:

  skates said:

Actually Jr's liner in the tendon guard area should have been cut out like the retail version, the pro shop early on did not think is was worth while doing.

Some pros have asked for a stiffer tendon guard because they are used to it and they are built slightly defferent.

We promote a flexible tendon guard to increase your range of motion for increased foot extension.  A simple excersise is to point your toes down when your skates are tied up, now do the same on your other foot with a stiff tendon guard and or with a forward rake angle.  You will understand which one will give you more push off power very easily.

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Thanks for the additional information. I'm still stuck with the idea of a stiffer tendon guard, which is why I have decided to stick with my 8000's and not purchase the One90's. I understand the concept behind the flexible tendon guard. But when deciding to drop $600 for the One90's versus keeping my 8000's it became a question of will these skates be that much better than the 8000's. I'm not quite convinced of that yet. I think they are very comfortable skates otherwise and would have made the purchase had the tendon guard been stiffer.

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i feel the exact same way...

[ag12 0]

  djinferno said:

  ag12 said:

  skates said:

Actually Jr's liner in the tendon guard area should have been cut out like the retail version, the pro shop early on did not think is was worth while doing.

Some pros have asked for a stiffer tendon guard because they are used to it and they are built slightly defferent.

We promote a flexible tendon guard to increase your range of motion for increased foot extension.  A simple excersise is to point your toes down when your skates are tied up, now do the same on your other foot with a stiff tendon guard and or with a forward rake angle.  You will understand which one will give you more push off power very easily.

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Thanks for the additional information. I'm still stuck with the idea of a stiffer tendon guard, which is why I have decided to stick with my 8000's and not purchase the One90's. I understand the concept behind the flexible tendon guard. But when deciding to drop $600 for the One90's versus keeping my 8000's it became a question of will these skates be that much better than the 8000's. I'm not quite convinced of that yet. I think they are very comfortable skates otherwise and would have made the purchase had the tendon guard been stiffer.

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i feel the exact same way...

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It's nice to see someone else feels the same way. It's too bad Bauer has stopped making the 8000 for retail purposes, since I believe it was one of their better skates in recent years that they have put out. My feeling on the One90 tendon guard is that not only is it a cost savings for Bauer in their manufacturing process but that they are trying to convince us that this new cheaper tendon guard will dramatically improve our skating ability, again I'm not so sure. Look at how Paul Coffey used to tape up his skates, and he is by far one of the best skaters there ever was. I can't imagine him wraping tape around that guard, only to have it rip off. So my feeling is that Bauer has cheapened up their product and now have a fancy marketing campaign to convince us that this is the new way to go and charge a alot for it. Why bother with a tendon guard at all? Why not cut it off? Of course this only applies if you have use for the tendon guard. But then too why have the some of pros asked for the stiffer guard, if we want that option the skate will then be $700, I'll need to mortgage that!!

[Edge 0]

wow...

Why would bauer try to "cheapen up" the product with that? I'm sure it costs them just as much, if not more, to make the one90 tendon guard as any other one they have produced in the years, and the price to produce a tendon guard has to be a very small percent of the total cost to make the skate. As for the paul coffey thing, that is personal preference...as is every other piece of hockey equipment every player is using. Why does Pronger use those floppy toungues? Same idea... Think about the idea around the flexible guard...it makes sense. Why shouldn't the skater be able to get that extra snap out of their stride? If you don't like it then don't buy it...like you did.

[DarkStar50 679]

Tendon guards are mandatory on hockey skates. They are designed to protect your achilles tendon. If NikeBauer were to remove them, the skates would not meet safety standards for hockey. If you don't like the One90, check out the Supreme 70. The One90 is really a stand alone skate for design and construction. The rest of the Supreme series is actually a bit more traditional than everyone thinks.

[ag12 0]

  Edge said:

wow...

Why would bauer try to "cheapen up" the product with that? I'm sure it costs them just as much, if not more, to make the one90 tendon guard as any other one they have produced in the years, and the price to produce a tendon guard has to be a very small percent of the total cost to make the skate. As for the paul coffey thing, that is personal preference...as is every other piece of hockey equipment every player is using. Why does Pronger use those floppy toungues? Same idea... Think about the idea around the flexible guard...it makes sense. Why shouldn't the skater be able to get that extra snap out of their stride? If you don't like it then don't buy it...like you did.

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The reason I say "cheapen" the tendon guard is because I come from a manufacturing background where I've seen large corporations remove some aspects out of a product to help their bottom line and then market to the consumer that it is a "benefit" or "improvement" when it's really not. I just feel that Bauer did a nice job on the skate, but cut a corner and it's disappointing but not surprising. In terms of cost that One90 tendon guard is alot cheaper to make than the 8000 based purely on materials. I was being a bit sarcastic when I said to cut it off because it feels very flimsy. The point I was trying a make with Coffey is that Bauer is now marketing a $600 skate to improve snap when Coffey was getting plenty of "snap" out of his taped leather Bauer's back when he was blowing by opposing players. Just my 2 cents.

[TBLfan 25]

  ag12 said:

  Edge said:

wow...

Why would bauer try to "cheapen up" the product with that? I'm sure it costs them just as much, if not more, to make the one90 tendon guard as any other one they have produced in the years, and the price to produce a tendon guard has to be a very small percent of the total cost to make the skate.  As for the paul coffey thing, that is personal preference...as is every other piece of hockey equipment every player is using. Why does Pronger use those floppy toungues? Same idea... Think about the idea around the flexible guard...it makes sense. Why shouldn't the skater be able to get that extra snap out of their stride?  If you don't like it then don't buy it...like you did.

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The reason I say "cheapen" the tendon guard is because I come from a manufacturing background where I've seen large corporations remove some aspects out of a product to help their bottom line and then market to the consumer that it is a "benefit" or "improvement" when it's really not. I just feel that Bauer did a nice job on the skate, but cut a corner and it's disappointing but not surprising. In terms of cost that One90 tendon guard is alot cheaper to make than the 8000 based purely on materials. I was being a bit sarcastic when I said to cut it off because it feels very flimsy. The point I was trying a make with Coffey is that Bauer is now marketing a $600 skate to improve snap when Coffey was getting plenty of "snap" out of his taped leather Bauer's back when he was blowing by opposing players. Just my 2 cents.

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source?

[JR Boucicaut 3804]

If it were cheaper, it would snap once and never again. The sheer fact that it bends both ways while maintaining its integrity tells you right there that a lot of thought was put behind the idea.

Besides, have you skated in it? You just might like it.

[ag12 0]

  TBLfan said:

  ag12 said:

  Edge said:

wow...

Why would bauer try to "cheapen up" the product with that? I'm sure it costs them just as much, if not more, to make the one90 tendon guard as any other one they have produced in the years, and the price to produce a tendon guard has to be a very small percent of the total cost to make the skate.  As for the paul coffey thing, that is personal preference...as is every other piece of hockey equipment every player is using. Why does Pronger use those floppy toungues? Same idea... Think about the idea around the flexible guard...it makes sense. Why shouldn't the skater be able to get that extra snap out of their stride?  If you don't like it then don't buy it...like you did.

Read more  

The reason I say "cheapen" the tendon guard is because I come from a manufacturing background where I've seen large corporations remove some aspects out of a product to help their bottom line and then market to the consumer that it is a "benefit" or "improvement" when it's really not. I just feel that Bauer did a nice job on the skate, but cut a corner and it's disappointing but not surprising. In terms of cost that One90 tendon guard is alot cheaper to make than the 8000 based purely on materials. I was being a bit sarcastic when I said to cut it off because it feels very flimsy. The point I was trying a make with Coffey is that Bauer is now marketing a $600 skate to improve snap when Coffey was getting plenty of "snap" out of his taped leather Bauer's back when he was blowing by opposing players. Just my 2 cents.

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source?

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Unfortunately it doesn't take a genius to see that it's cheaper than previous models. I'm guessing here but that guard is one molded piece that has a slight stiffener in the middle that appears to require less construction than in a 8000 or Vapor 30. So my source is the skate itself. It's a flimsy guard in my opinion.

I could give it a try, but for $600 that's an expensive test drive. I know alot of thought probably went into it, but that can be said for all products ever produced. I just am not a fan of how flexible it is. You maybe right, I may give in, try and like it, but not right now. I think I'm going to need to see more feedback from other users of the skate before that happens. I'm going to try and be a tough sell on this one!! :)

[TBLfan 25]

  ag12 said:

  TBLfan said:

  ag12 said:

  Edge said:

wow...

Why would bauer try to "cheapen up" the product with that? I'm sure it costs them just as much, if not more, to make the one90 tendon guard as any other one they have produced in the years, and the price to produce a tendon guard has to be a very small percent of the total cost to make the skate.  As for the paul coffey thing, that is personal preference...as is every other piece of hockey equipment every player is using. Why does Pronger use those floppy toungues? Same idea... Think about the idea around the flexible guard...it makes sense. Why shouldn't the skater be able to get that extra snap out of their stride?  If you don't like it then don't buy it...like you did.

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The reason I say "cheapen" the tendon guard is because I come from a manufacturing background where I've seen large corporations remove some aspects out of a product to help their bottom line and then market to the consumer that it is a "benefit" or "improvement" when it's really not. I just feel that Bauer did a nice job on the skate, but cut a corner and it's disappointing but not surprising. In terms of cost that One90 tendon guard is alot cheaper to make than the 8000 based purely on materials. I was being a bit sarcastic when I said to cut it off because it feels very flimsy. The point I was trying a make with Coffey is that Bauer is now marketing a $600 skate to improve snap when Coffey was getting plenty of "snap" out of his taped leather Bauer's back when he was blowing by opposing players. Just my 2 cents.

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source?

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Unfortunately it doesn't take a genius to see that it's cheaper than previous models. I'm guessing here but that guard is one molded piece that has a slight stiffener in the middle that appears to require less construction than in a 8000 or Vapor 30. So my source is the skate itself. It's a flimsy guard in my opinion.

I could give it a try, but for $600 that's an expensive test drive. I know alot of thought probably went into it, but that can be said for all products ever produced. I just am not a fan of how flexible it is. You maybe right, I may give in, try and like it, but not right now. I think I'm going to need to see more feedback from other users of the skate before that happens. I'm going to try and be a tough sell on this one!! :)

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exactly, it's in your opinion. It's a flexible tendon guard, not a flimsy tendon guard. It's like saying that an 85 flex stick is cheaper made then a 110 flex. You have no idea what technology is going into this, yet you're making claims. I'm not trying to be an ass, but before you say that a feature is "obviously" just a gimmick have data to back it up. You haven't said anything that is not just your opinion... Which is fine, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but that doesn't make your opinion a fact.

[sogaduch 0]

  JR Boucicaut said:

If it were cheaper, it would snap once and never again. The sheer fact that it bends both ways while maintaining its integrity tells you right there that a lot of thought was put behind the idea.

Besides, have you skated in it? You just might like it.

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i liked it cause it felt like my grafs having the flexibility. and yeah it should hold well because its not attached to the boot so when a kid or adult takes off his skate by pulling on the tendon guard it wont break away from the boot like older bauers IMO

[Edge 0]

  TBLfan said:

exactly, it's in your opinion. It's a flexible tendon guard, not a flimsy tendon guard. It's like saying that an 85 flex stick is cheaper made then a 110 flex. You have no idea what technology is going into this, yet you're making claims. I'm not trying to be an ass, but before you say that a feature is "obviously" just a gimmick have data to back it up. You haven't said anything that is not just your opinion... Which is fine, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but that doesn't make your opinion a fact.

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Good point with the stick flexes. Possibly the cost was cheaper but seriously can it matter that much when totaling the production cost of the skate? The idea makes sense and does what it is supposed to. This wasn't a regular option on the skate when Coffey played...maybe he would have liked it?...who cares regardless, its the same as how most of us like the idea and you don't, to each his own. Coffey didn't blow by people because of the stiff tendon guard, it was his skating that did that. See a flimsy guard would be like a broken down tendon guard from a skate like a 652 or something like that that just ends up giving in after so much pressure on it. With the one90, it is designed to flex back into place, and hold up to all the pressure, rather than just breaking down.

[DarkStar50 679]

  ag12 said:

The reason I say "cheapen" the tendon guard is because I come from a manufacturing background where I've seen large corporations remove some aspects out of a product to help their bottom line and then market to the consumer that it is a "benefit" or "improvement" when it's really not.

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Just curious if in your manufacturing background you were involved in protective equipment. While I am sure that manufacturerers in non-protective product can do as you say, I think in this environment NBH would not take the chance of compromising protection over cost. This is a product that is worn by professional athletes. I doubt any vendor in the hockey business will sacrifice protection to save a few dollars on the bottom line for product that is used by professional athletes. It would make not good business sense and could also destroy the company if there were a serious injury as a result of this decision to save a few dollars over a properly built protective product.

[skates 3]

ag12, your certainly allowed to voice your opinion. If you were to look back over the last several years, Bauer tendon guards have been designed with increased flexibility, which we firmly believe promotes and enhances good skating mechanics.

If you feel that a flexible guard ='s a cheaper way of constructing a skate, than so be it. The fact is that it actually costs more considering multiple mold costs and raw material.

Yes we are sensitive to skate costs to hit our margins, as a responsible company, but the "bottom line" is we try to desing and build skates that will help the hockey player perform to the best of their abilitys.

[ag12 0]

  skates said:

ag12, your certainly allowed to voice your opinion. If you were to look back over the last several years, Bauer tendon guards have been designed with increased flexibility, which we firmly believe promotes and enhances good skating mechanics.

If you feel that a flexible guard ='s a cheaper way of constructing a skate, than so be it. The fact is that it actually costs more considering multiple mold costs and raw material.

Yes we are sensitive to skate costs to hit our margins, as a responsible company, but the "bottom line" is we try to desing and build skates that will help the hockey player perform to the best of their abilitys.

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I guess I was wrong in my assumption in terms of the cost, but I'll take your word for it. I'm just disappointed that for $600 we as the consumer don't get more of a choice as say for example the flexes in sticks that was mentioned above. Why doesn't Bauer offer different flexes for its tendon guard, some of the pros didn't like it.... We have the choice to order it that way, but it's going to cost us alot more and how long before we are looking as a consumer at purchasing $800 or $1000 skates out of the box? I've been a loyal Bauer user for quite a fews years, and have always purchased the top line skates, but I just think for the price it's disappointing in my opinion, but I feel that the skate has it's shortfalls. The original Vapor 8 had a exteremly stiff guard, now it seems Bauer has gone completely in the opposite direction. The Vapor 20's have had durability issues, the original Lightspeeds had poor steel who was making those decisions in the corporate chain of command? The only line that I've ever really been happy with is the Supreme line, but the 8090 was junk in my mind unless you had it custom made or had wide feet. Just my opinion though....

My manufacturing background isn't in sporting goods, but all companies act the same way regardless of what they make. For example I worked for one of the largest companies in the world that produces personal care products of which probably many of you on this board use daily. They decided to take out the "good" in a new product introduction to increase usage and drive up sales, just a small change but over millions of uses has a huge impact to the bottom line. It pissed me off because it cheapened the product but it was so subtle that no-one would notice. That's why as I see the price of these skates shooting up that we as a consumer should demand more if they want to keep as loyal customers, for $600 we are getting stuck with in my mind is mostly a very good skate, but for $600 we should be able to order custom. I would prefer to stick with the top of the line since I'm hard on my skates, but I may have to switch to another brand.

[DarkStar50 679]

  ag12 said:

My manufacturing background isn't in sporting goods, but all companies act the same way regardless of what they make.  

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That is a very general statement to make which was just proved to be false by skates.

You have choices in the marketplace. You can buy another brand. No one holds a gun to our heads to buy NikeBauer, RBK, CCM, Easton, Mission, or Graf skates. If you don't like the product, don't buy it. Sounds easy enough to me.

Until you skate in the One90, its hard to say it really has shortfalls.

[ag12 0]

  DarkStar50 said:

  ag12 said:

My manufacturing background isn't in sporting goods, but all companies act the same way regardless of what they make.  

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That is a very general statement to make which was just proved to be false by skates.

You have choices in the marketplace. You can buy another brand. No one holds a gun to our heads to buy NikeBauer, RBK, CCM, Easton, Mission, or Graf skates. If you don't like the product, don't buy it. Sounds easy enough to me.

Until you skate in the One90, its hard to say it really has shortfalls.

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You have choices in the market place for vitually all products.....

It's a general statement that applies to any corporation, they teach it in Business 101... Companies build shareholder value, and Nike Bauer is certainly doing it with a $600 skate that most are now gaga over.... And when they come out with a $800 skate they'll be glad to take your money for that also.... But since this board allows one to voice thier opinion on products, that's what I'm doing....