hockeyherb 1 Report post Posted October 17, 2006 Good article today in the WSJ of all places right on the front page talking about the USA Hockey rules changes and how it's impacting youth hockey.An interesting fact is that 10% of USA Hockey refs have yet to take the one day seminar on the new rules, which they say is leading to confusion and the new rules not being applied consistently.My hat goes off to the one coach in the article who actually brought a ref into a practice for his team and whenever they called a penalty in the scrimmage they stopped and he explained why it was a penalty. That's the best place to teach the players, not as they're skating to the box during a game screaming at the ref because they don't understand the call.In previous posts I said our beer league went through this growing pain in the summer which was when we adopted the rules but now it's pretty smooth sailing and back to a normal number of penalties. Every league will have an adjustment period as they adopt the new rules.I do wonder how this could affect some kids who are on the cusp of trying to get into a good college or Junior program. I figure if you're a good player you won't need to rely on the clutching and grabbing and good skaters will be at a premium now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hockechamp14 0 Report post Posted October 17, 2006 I knew this was coming, so last year I made sure to start cutting the habits. Paid off big time now. 1 penalty so far in like 7 games. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBondo 232 Report post Posted October 17, 2006 I get away with some of it still. But I have cut down a lot, I only have one penalty in 13 games, and it was for cross-checking in front of the net to try and gain position.But aside from my penalty taking, others on our team haven't gotten a hold of it yet. Our coach has been suspended for I think 4 or 5 games this season, already, due to the fact of more than 15 penalties in a game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KYHockey3 0 Report post Posted October 17, 2006 i went to a midget 18u game this weekend and a team had 18 penaltys.they were very bogus penaltys though. the away team had a penalty kill nearly the whole game! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UMWhockey 0 Report post Posted October 17, 2006 as a coach I had two scrimmages against teams in the area where we have a 5 man ref crew. We had three on the ice and one in each box. It provided not only the kids with feedback on why they were called, but gave the refs an opertunity to get some feedback on missed calls and such. I have noticed a big difference in some officals though. Some guys still don't call anything and others assume there is a penalty if a kid falls. I am not too big on how some of the refs call the game now because youth hockey is about getting kids playing time and if every nit picky thing is called it is hard for kids to get playing time when the game is being played 3vs3. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toroytorero 0 Report post Posted October 18, 2006 My beer league team just had our first game of the season last week..we ended up with 40 PIM total for the game.. it was the biggest fiasco of a game I've ever played in. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chadd 916 Report post Posted October 18, 2006 My beer league team just had our first game of the season last week..we ended up with 40 PIM total for the game.. it was the biggest fiasco of a game I've ever played in. Hell, I've had 40 in a single game. I'm not proud of it, but I've done it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eazy_b97 1 Report post Posted October 18, 2006 I had my first game behind the bench last night and it was pretty frustrating. The game was good most of the way, few PP's for us in the first 2 periods (4 I believe), 1-2 for them. Our team is all minors and we're smaller than most teams so we don't take alot of penalties. Then in the third period we had 6 penalties called against us in 8 minutes of play. Most were just really bizzaree stuff as well. I don't mind the number of penalties, but the consistency is brutal. Alot of the lower level refs just aren't that great, and giving them much more to handle and watch for leads to alot of problems. It's something that really doesn't have an easy solution though. Get better refs, but it's not like there is a surplus of qualified, good refs around. Guess I'll grin and bear it for now, hope it gets better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hitz14 0 Report post Posted October 18, 2006 we combined for 52 pens in one of my games, 28 fo us Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hitz14 0 Report post Posted October 18, 2006 not mins. either Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hockeymom 2 Report post Posted October 18, 2006 My daughter's team played 5 exhibition games in September and the penaltes started off very high, but as they figured it out (and broke some habits) the penalties began to come down.Tonight was the first regular season game and it was brutal because the refs weren't calling anything. This would have been a brutal game under "old standards of enforcement".... after weeks' of getting their heads around the new standards to play a game where elbows in the head, tripping and cross-checking were NOT called, was unbelievable.Apparently all refs won't be trained until the end of the month... so until then the inconsistency will be hard to live with. I just hope this team comes to play us soon - the Toronto area refs ARE calling the penalties. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DamnLocust 0 Report post Posted October 18, 2006 2 beer league games this season so far (in 2 different leagues) and it's the same old crap where you can get away with murder, unless of course a "weaker" skater happens to fall into you, then it's 2 minutes for tripping. I kid you not when I say that a guy on the other team lost his edge aqnd took out my teammate along the boards, and my teammate got called for a trip. I hate the refs here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hockeyismylife 0 Report post Posted October 18, 2006 Our team's first game about a month ago was terrible. There were 28 minors called on them and 48 called on us. That's not even counting the 3 10's given out by the ref. That was by far the worst game I have ever played in, and the least fun I have ever had playing hockey. The refs went way overboard with the new standard of enforcement. I was the only one on my team to not get a penalty. The penalties probably should have been more like 20-15 (still alot) instead of the 48-28 that they called. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
troybruins89 0 Report post Posted October 18, 2006 Our first games were pretty bad. Its slowed down some, but im not sure if thats because we are adapting or the refs are just calling less. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Joker518 0 Report post Posted October 18, 2006 Hell, I'm primarilly a roller hockey player and I can tell you its effecting our Inline league in Jersey as well. The mandate just came down from USA hockey and its like the Ref's are TRYING to find infractions to call instead of just giving penalties as they come. As my team's captain I approached the commisioner after the game and asked for clarification on some calls (after yapping at the ref's all game...). The problem is that they need to all get on the same page in terms with what is a hook. I thought I knew but after talking to the commisioner and those two zebras, I'm more confused than ever... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hockeydoc 0 Report post Posted October 18, 2006 It's not the calls that are tough to get used to. It's like all of you have said, it's the inconsistancys'. We can't teach the kids, or anybody what's a penalty when it will definatley change next game, and dramatically so.One game you touch someone, interferance. You breath on someone, trip. Next game you cut off a skating lane and run them in the boards, CLEAN. You reach your stick around them and drag them to the ground, CLEAN. I've told our teams that these are not new rules, it's tighter enforcement on exsisting rules. But the bad calling of the ref's mean that it's not penalty's at all. Some of the ref's think this is an excuse to now be the main factors in games. Yes that's it we are all out there to entertain the ref's... Others have not changed a thing.I believe it's hard enough to ref, and keeping it consistant is very difficult, but when USA Hockey decided to make these changes it just seems as though they could have done a better job educating the ref's as to the way to incorporate them better. Maybe in w/ the '07 ref test or something.I'm sure it will get better, and smooth out more, but what a real pain in the A&& in the mean time...as frustrating for the players as it is for the parents and or coaches etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chadd 916 Report post Posted October 18, 2006 USAH wasn't prepared properly for the new standards. To make matters worse, a couple weeks ago they sent out an email to most officials that was somewhat contrary to what was shown in the video. It also introduced a new term that was never used by USAH in the past, stick press. Long story short, USAH has bumbled this from the start and I'm actually in favor of the new standards. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kosydar 0 Report post Posted October 18, 2006 we combined for 52 pens in one of my games, 28 fo us I reffed a club hockey game and I called 38 penalties. I feel like I could have called more, too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kosydar 0 Report post Posted October 18, 2006 USAH wasn't prepared properly for the new standards. To make matters worse, a couple weeks ago they sent out an email to most officials that was somewhat contrary to what was shown in the video. It also introduced a new term that was never used by USAH in the past, stick press. Long story short, USAH has bumbled this from the start and I'm actually in favor of the new standards. The worst part (at least around here) is how quickly people are giving up on the rules. I'm not a fan of calling more penalties, but I'm a fan of opening the game up. What people don't realize is that there won't always be 30+ penalties a game once people are fully adapted to the rules. After one week in the adult league, they all are threatening to quit if we don't amend the rules. Yet, they all say they want the game to be opened up. People need to realize this is a learning process for both players and the refs, and within a few months things will be good hopefully. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chadd 916 Report post Posted October 18, 2006 USAH wasn't prepared properly for the new standards. To make matters worse, a couple weeks ago they sent out an email to most officials that was somewhat contrary to what was shown in the video. It also introduced a new term that was never used by USAH in the past, stick press. Long story short, USAH has bumbled this from the start and I'm actually in favor of the new standards. The worst part (at least around here) is how quickly people are giving up on the rules. I'm not a fan of calling more penalties, but I'm a fan of opening the game up. What people don't realize is that there won't always be 30+ penalties a game once people are fully adapted to the rules. After one week in the adult league, they all are threatening to quit if we don't amend the rules. Yet, they all say they want the game to be opened up. People need to realize this is a learning process for both players and the refs, and within a few months things will be good hopefully. Guys are still complaining around here, but I ask them "were you making a play on the puck?" and that usually calms them down. You're going to have bad refs who call too much, bad refs who don't call enough and good refs who just don't see things sometimes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chippa13 1844 Report post Posted October 18, 2006 From what I've heard from guys I skate with who coach, the new standards are killing the game. Kids barely play 5-5 anymore. What does that teach them? Absolutely nothing. Question: Was clutch and grab really such a problem in youth hockey in the first place? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chadd 916 Report post Posted October 18, 2006 From what I've heard from guys I skate with who coach, the new standards are killing the game. Kids barely play 5-5 anymore. What does that teach them? Absolutely nothing. Question: Was clutch and grab really such a problem in youth hockey in the first place? Yes it was a problem. Coaches haven't been doing enough skill-building and focusing instead on interference, hooking and holding. The other problem is that refs in some areas, new england especially, weren't calling penalties the way USAH wanted. Too many refs look for reaons to not call a penalty. The sooner coaches realize that the hooking and holding they have been teaching kids is going to result in penalties, the sooner the game gets better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chippa13 1844 Report post Posted October 18, 2006 From what I've heard from guys I skate with who coach, the new standards are killing the game. Kids barely play 5-5 anymore. What does that teach them? Absolutely nothing. Question: Was clutch and grab really such a problem in youth hockey in the first place? Yes it was a problem. Coaches haven't been doing enough skill-building and focusing instead on interference, hooking and holding. The other problem is that refs in some areas, new england especially, weren't calling penalties the way USAH wanted. Too many refs look for reaons to not call a penalty. The sooner coaches realize that the hooking and holding they have been teaching kids is going to result in penalties, the sooner the game gets better. Trust me, the guys I know aren't teaching the Lamorello plan. Honestly, lifting a stick being a penalty is just about the most ridiculous thing you can ever call. I'm glad some refs in our area aren't calling them all. Those kids are supposed to be learning hockey, not penalty killing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chadd 916 Report post Posted October 18, 2006 From what I've heard from guys I skate with who coach, the new standards are killing the game. Kids barely play 5-5 anymore. What does that teach them? Absolutely nothing. Question: Was clutch and grab really such a problem in youth hockey in the first place? Yes it was a problem. Coaches haven't been doing enough skill-building and focusing instead on interference, hooking and holding. The other problem is that refs in some areas, new england especially, weren't calling penalties the way USAH wanted. Too many refs look for reaons to not call a penalty. The sooner coaches realize that the hooking and holding they have been teaching kids is going to result in penalties, the sooner the game gets better. Trust me, the guys I know aren't teaching the Lamorello plan. Honestly, lifting a stick being a penalty is just about the most ridiculous thing you can ever call. I'm glad some refs in our area aren't calling them all. Those kids are supposed to be learning hockey, not penalty killing. Lifting the stick is ok, as long as you lift it when the puck is nearby. That was addressed directly in the video. If the puck isn't close, there's no reason to lift the stick. If the kids learn hockey, they won't take as many penalties.EDIT: You do have to lift the lower part of the stick too, not up by the hands. It's still not to hard to figure out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chippa13 1844 Report post Posted October 18, 2006 Only when the puck is nearby? That's even worse. What is the distance, 2 feet, 5 feet, 10 feet? It's just a brutal rule to implement. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites