Putting things in perspective

[hockechamp14 0]

I'm sure this will open up some interesting discussion around these parts as many of us play or have youngsters who play. So lets lay it out:

http://www.elitefts.com/documents/perspective.htm

[kosydar 0]

Either that guys kid is going to be an amazing ball player, or he'll grow up to hate his dad.

[LkptTiger 1]

Possibly/probably both.

My situation is/was slightly different, but I'll throw it out there, anyways:

By the time I was nine, my father had me out on five mile runs twice a day (before and after school) while he rode his bike. He supervised all of my workouts and made damn sure that I didn't cut any corners. There was absolutely NO junk food for me. I remember him pulling me out of school on a semi-regular basis to go to open hockey (which I can't say I complained about). He was going to start me on weight-gainer when I was ten, but my mother nixed that. Looking back on it, all that stuff did a Hell of a lot more damage than it did good - which is part of the reason I'm already almost completely run-down at age 18. When I didn't play up to his standards (which became increasingly impossible to reach as I got older), I got the absolute shit kicked out of me. He broke sticks over my legs, threw skates in my general direction, and knocked me through the air (and knocked me unconscious) about 15 feet by swinging my hockey bag and hitting me with it as hard as he could.

Am I a good hockey player? I suppose that depends on how you would define "good." Before my knee was torn to shreds, I have considered myself to be at least "decent." I was Jr. A-bound before I got hurt, and am hoping that I will be able to make a recovery to play at a semi-decent level next season. But that's really besides the point.

Did my dad make me better? Yeah, grudgingly, I'll concede that he did - if nothing else, I have a better work ethic because of the shit he put me through when I was younger.

But still, I haven't seen my father since I was 13 and have not spoken to him since I was 14 (my mom, my brother and myself have an order of protection against him). He called my cell phone the other day, actually - naturally, I didn't pick-up. Don't think I can ever really see myself having any kind of relationship with him again, either.

I can tell you that I could have made it to the Show and I still wouldn't want to have anything to do with him.

[hockeymom 2]

Hmm... the whole idea of balance and perspective and chasing your dreams is something that I struggle with on a fairly regular basis. And preparing for both success and failure in life and sport. Sport has given my little family a lot of life lessons and a lot of friends and joy over the years. Oh hell, this will be too long...LOL

My history:

When I was a kid I wanted... more than breathing... to be a horse trainer at the elite level. My life lacked balance, from 10 yrs on, I spent at least 40-60 hours training each week. Dragged my family into the sport - and we ended up with a breeding operation and 67 head of horses.

My dad was a tough task-master, who demanded excellence and recognized excellence comes from miles of effort and time and preparation. He also had a ton of space for failing - if the effort was there and if you learned from it. And he sure set me up for the possibility of failure/change - shoot for it but keep a wide base of options open for the 17 careers you might want in your lifetime. He went back to school at 45 yrs old to become a lawyer... it's never too late.

I loved it. I have no regrets because I loved every blessed moment of it. It took a few years to get over the heart-wrenching disappointment of not having enough talent to be an elite trainer. And I chose instead to do something else that I loved that paid great money so I could afford to keep horses as a hobby. No regrets on that either.... NOW... but I can't begin to describe the heart-wrenching process of "getting over" the set-back of not achieving a goal you'd obsessed over since you were - ?? 5 yrs old??

Enter my daughter:

Who was supposed to be an elite-level rider, but has no passion for it. Hockey is her passion, and you follow their passions not yours. There is absolutely no future in hockey for women, she is not likely to even have a hockey related career. (Given the chauvinism I've experienced in the field, I'd likely encourage her elsewhere). I put her in all the sports she was interested in and learned about them and worked with her some because if I didn't do it, who would? (Last year when she was getting ready for baseball try-outs she said to me "mum, no offense, you'd think with all the years we've been throwing balls and working on this that you'd have improved a bit more. I mean, I've been working with you for years and you STILL throw like a girl!!")

She played competitive hockey and was simultaneously one of the strongest players and weakest skaters. She did have extra skills sessions, skating was always a focus and it wasn't an area I could help her with. And she went to stick and puck and stuff. It was her largest passion, and well, everyone here knows how hockey takes over your life. But even so, I don't think I fully heard how committed she was. I thought it was just another fun sport; I can't say I fully heard her passion. But maybe that's guilt and 20-20 hindsight....lol. I really should have intervened more and made sure she learned how to skate properly.

BAM! she hit the wall at Bantam in April 2005. Several players (she wasn't alone) made the spiral all the way down from A level through BB and B and landed with a depressing thump at C. (Highest in girls' hockey is AA). Bounced right out of her league and across the city into another one.

We cried. Oh man, that was every parent's nightmare. She's always made every team she's ever tried out for and it was just crushing. This would be a defining moment in her life - a point where, as an adult, she would reach back to and say "when this happened I decided this or that about the world or about myself". I was bloody well determined that we would get some good stuff out of this truly awful experience. This would be a motivational "face adversity story" not an "I'm no good story" or "life is unfair story". And in the aftermath all her dreams and aspirations for hockey came tumbling out - she talked then - or I heard them finally.

After we finished being hurt and angry, I said to her: Part of this isn't your fault - it is politics and has nothing to do with you as a person or what kind of a player you are. You are a great player; you see the ice and think strategically and I'm not sure people can be taught that if they don't have it. And part of this is a hard truth - your skating is weak. But the good news is you can learn to skate. So if you really want to work on it, I will support you, but one two conditions: if you keep up at school and only if you love every minute of it. If you work your butt off and don't get to where you want to be it will only be a waste if you didn't love doing it along the way. And I also said, the moment you want to stop or slow down, do it, don't think you have to keep at it, people's interests change sometimes. She thought I was nuts with that last one...and started on "next year" that week.

Making an A team at the April 2006 try-outs was her short term goal - and this kid worked her butt off. She skated and skated and tore down her skills. She took "92" as her new jersey number - as a "F-you I'm a 1992" to coaches who don't take '92 players in their double year band teams (which is part of the political reality of girls hockey). And she never lost sight of the fact that she had to blow them away to earn a spot on the team. I wondered (read worried) if I was letting her be too single minded about it. She did a lot of extra skills sessions... I took her out of school for some of them, I helped her drag the net across the street to shoot in the playground. And I worried... and I felt guilty (with a laugh at myself) for giving birth in the wrong year (LOL) and for not making sure she learned this stuff earlier when I had known it was a problem.

April 2006 rolls around and she was cut by four A teams - two because she's a '92, the others, well, she didn't blow them away that day. So I ask her "was it worth it? You worked so damned hard and didn't make your goals." And she says yes, she really improved and needs to work TWICE as hard next year because Midget will be a 3 year age band and she wants to make at least A in the first year and doesn't want playing Bantam BB to set her back.

And so we go to extra skills sessions, and I worry she is being too single minded about it. HA! I ALSO worry that I haven't got it figured out yet, and maybe she should be doing something different or something more. That a year from now or four years from now I'll be saying "I should have done that instead". And I wonder at the balance - or lack of it - in my own life as well as hers. But I do understand wanting to perform at the highest levels, and I know that sacrifice and effort first hand. So far, I think it is worth it too. For me as well as her. I love hockey and I love watching her fly down the ice, so my sacrifices to her sport are worth it. And if she doesn't make varsity hockey at university, well I hope she has also learned how to take the disappointments in life in stride too.

All parents want the best for their kids. We're fumbling around in the dark trying to get it right. God, I hope I am getting this right. Launching this human being is just too important to screw it up.

[Jason Harris 31]

Cal Ripken often said that if his kids had been born on a game day, the streak would have ended. This guy sounds like he'd call his wife after his state meet to ask what the baby looks like -- and then secretly seeth that she didn't induce to prevent a conflict with his schedule.

Since his article is about 'perspective', my perspective is that man is going to die a lonely man with trophies that have tarnished over time.

[LkptTiger 1]

... but I can't begin to describe the heart-wrenching process of "getting over" the set-back of not achieving a goal you'd obsessed over since you were - ?? 5 yrs old??

I know exactly what you're talking about. I could not control myself the first time I crutched into a rink the first time after my injury. I sobbed like a little boy who's dog had just died. It was almost as bad for me when I first got on the ice a few weeks later - I felt like I hadn't been on the ice in years and years, and spent most of the time choking back tears. Even for a few months after I got hurt, I would break down and cry at random times. Hell, I still cry myself to sleep every-once-in-awhile.

Losing a dream sucks; especially when you spend almost everyday from the time you were four working toward it. Most everyone has to go through something like it - for some of us it is slightly more traumatic than for others. Personally, I'm beginning to come to terms with it (better late than never, I suppose) - I'm not the first hockey player that something like this has ever happened to.

I just hope, for your daughter's sake, that she doesn't get as wrapped-up in the game as I did. I can tell you that I allowed my personal identity as a hockey player to define who I was off the ice, as well. I was VERY depressed for a long time and had a difficult time accepting that I would have to live a life outside the rink.

No matter how good your daughter does or doesn't get, there is going to come a day when she is going to leave the rink and realize that she can not go any further in the sport. She'll be crushed and it is going to suck, but she has to make sure that she keeps a solid grasp on life off the ice.

[Kovy_Ribs_Fedo 3]

Having fun doing what you do is the key. I know so many kids that have been flop because they were playing for their fathers. Younger, these kids were good players because their fathers pushed them so they were a step ahead but they had soon lost the step they had ahead. IMO, most important thing to have success is to have fun doing what you do.

And LkptTiger, I just wish you not do with your kids what your father has did with you. Let them go and let them find their passions. Parents role is just to support your kids not to tell them what they should do.

[sweetblazer 0]

I like this discussion beacause i had one liek it a little while ago with my gym teacher. We were talking about steroids and someone said why would you ever take them even if they were legal? Knowing my life revolved around hockey he asked me "if you could take a pill that would make you the best hockey player in the world. You would be legendary liek wayne. The epidemy of hockey players, girls love you guys want to be you. BUT you would play from 18-35 then die. Would you do it?" and i thought to myself. The conclusion I came to was that other than the family (wife and kids) I could have by that point. I would. And it just hit me how much hockey was a part of my life. In the end I think that I wouldnt be able to to do just because the love I would potentailly have for a wife and kids. However if not for those OTHER people in my life, I would. Its kind of weird how a sport can become so much a part of you. Im not even all that great. I play AAA and always have, but im nt going anywhere in hockey which was pretty tough to accept but I have and realise I can always play the game and thats what keeps me going. Anyways I thought it was an interesting question that really got me thinking. What do you guys think? woudl you?

P.S. He and I alike realise no steroid or pill is capable of that, its just hypothetical for anyone who's gunan be a smartass lol

[LkptTiger 1]

I'll be honest with you guys: I'd take the pill without thinking twice...and I wouldn't regret it, either.

[LkptTiger 1]

And LkptTiger, I just wish you not do with your kids what your father has did with you. Let them go and let them find their passions. Parents role is just to support your kids not to tell them what they should do.

I would never, EVER be able to do to my kids what my father did to me and my family. I've seen and lived with the damage that it does. Not only wouldn't I be able to hurt the people I care about most, but I wouldn't be able to throw-away my relationships with those people the way my father did.

[hockeymom 2]

LKptTiger: I don't think you would ride your kids... as you've said, it caused you so much pain. And because you are aware of it you will watch out for it.

As Kovy said a few posts back.... fun. I think you don't mess up if you keep saying "is this fun?" Like the rides to the arena and back home. HA! We used to play games "what if the puck is..." and that taught her positioning and stuff. What a waste to spend that precious time yelling over anything. Connecting with your kid with a mutually loved sport is amazing.

Because playing a game shouldn't suck the life out of you it should add good stuff back in.

[hockeymom 2]

Oh yeah, the pill thing? Having a kid completely ruins you for these games, because it so completely screws up your priorities...LOL

But, if I can put myself back to where I was when I was 17 or 18, yeah, I'd probably do it in a minute.

Now, though, never... not in a million years. The stuff I've experienced beyond my dreams - and beyond 35 yrs old - has been of such value and so rich I wouldn't want to sacrifice a second of it for those dreams that seemed so all important back then.

[Guest OSTOR]

I love my parents

What do they do to help me in hockey?

Tons!

They put me on homeschooling so I can go to the rink whenever

They buy me all the best gear/latest

They bought me a gym to train with

They buy my supplements (cough cough)

They put me in very expensive hockey camps to make me better

They pay for my personal trainer

They drive me any for hockey

What do I give them in return?

I work my ass off everytime I hit that ice

If I have to train and I dont want to I make sure I get my ass out there and do it.

Speaking of which, I have a chest infection and a fairly bad cold right now and we had stick and puck today and I was really not feeling up to the play but I went anyways just to make my parents happy and to show respect for all the things they do for me.

Can you guess what parent is behind all this?

My MOM thats right not my dad my mom, yah my dad pays for stuff but he just doesn't give a rats ass. I could come back from a game and he won't even ask me the score and my mom on the other hand is like man that was a great game you guys played but that other guy hes gotta pass more, and me and her will just keep on talking on and on about it.

I think every parents wants their kid to be the best but most of the time that doesn't happen.

[DarkStar50 679]

About 10 years ago I went to the Waldorf-Astoria Hotel in NYC for a dinner event that named the top NCAA college baseball player in America. It was basically the Heisman Trophy Award version for college baseball. There were 9 players nominated and JD Drew was there and won. There was also an award given to the top high school baseball player in America. This big tall blond kid from Florida won. He was a pitcher and struck out about 90% of the batters he faced. I don't recall the actual stats but they were beyond dominant. He was overwhelming. On the way out of the event, I met his parents in the hallway and congratulated them. I asked if he was going to college next year. "Oh no, he has just signed a huge contract with the St. Louis Cardinals. He is going pro." I said great and moved on. This player quickly made it to the majors with the Cards. He also quickly fell apart at the major league level. His name was Rick Ankeil(I think) and he was the young kid who couldn't throw a pitch from the mound to the catcher in a play-off game. He threw about 10 wild pitches in a row and lost total control of his ability of something as simple as throwing 60"6". He was out of baseball by the time he was 22. He tried a comeback as an outfielder but his career was over. I guess you can work as hard as you want for your dream and it can still fall apart at any moment. You just never know when or where.

As for hockey, chasing your dreams is important but it has to be grounded in reality. As you move up the pyramid of players, there is less and less room at the top. As someone in the business of hockey for almost 30 years, I have seen a lot of talent come and go. I know some guys who went all the way to the NHL. They got their shot, they lived their dream. They also payed the price to get there. I know guys who never had a chance but just wouldn't accept the end of the line was sooner than they expected. And then I know someone who just went up to a QMJHL team for a tryout in the last two weeks. He was a 19 year old. The team would only take him if he could be a top 6 forward. He made the team but walked away because as a team low in the standings a lot of their games turned into fight fests late in the 3rd period. Do I think he made the right choice? No, I don't. The big picture is that at some point you will have to drop your mitts so now is the time. The bigger reason is exposure. He had the chance to dress and play in front of NHL scouts. Somebody would see him, no matter what. This was his one true chance to take a break and run with it. He saw the down side of the games, not the upside for him. I still don't know if he realizes the mistake he made. I have only talked to his father since he came back, not him. So, chasing your dreams is important. You have to realize that one opportunity when the stars line up for you and take advantage of it. When the door swings open be ready to walk through it. If the door swings shut, know that you gave it everything you had and you will never regret a thing.

[Kovy_Ribs_Fedo 3]

About 10 years ago I went to the Waldorf-Astoria Hotel in NYC for a dinner event that named the top NCAA college baseball player in America. It was basically the Heisman Trophy Award version for college baseball. There were 9 players nominated and JD Drew was there and won. There was also an award given to the top high school baseball player in America. This big tall blond kid from Florida won. He was a pitcher and struck out about 90% of the batters he faced. I don't recall the actual stats but they were beyond dominant. He was overwhelming. On the way out of the event, I met his parents in the hallway and congratulated them. I asked if he was going to college next year. "Oh no, he has just signed a huge contract with the St. Louis Cardinals. He is going pro." I said great and moved on. This player quickly made it to the majors with the Cards. He also quickly fell apart at the major league level. His name was Rick Ankeil(I think) and he was the young kid who couldn't throw a pitch from the mound to the catcher in a play-off game. He threw about 10 wild pitches in a row and lost total control of his ability of something as simple as throwing 60"6". He was out of baseball by the time he was 22. He tried a comeback as an outfielder but his career was over. I guess you can work as hard as you want for your dream and it can still fall apart at any moment. You just never know when or where.

As for hockey, chasing your dreams is important but it has to be grounded in reality. As you move up the pyramid of players, there is less and less room at the top. As someone in the business of hockey for almost 30 years, I have seen a lot of talent come and go. I know some guys who went all the way to the NHL. They got their shot, they lived their dream. They also payed the price to get there. I know guys who never had a chance but just wouldn't accept the end of the line was sooner than they expected. And then I know someone who just went up to a QMJHL team for a tryout in the last two weeks. He was a 19 year old. The team would only take him if he could be a top 6 forward. He made the team but walked away because as a team low in the standings a lot of their games turned into fight fests late in the 3rd period. Do I think he made the right choice? No, I don't. The big picture is that at some point you will have to drop your mitts so now is the time. The bigger reason is exposure. He had the chance to dress and play in front of NHL scouts. Somebody would see him, no matter what. This was his one true chance to take a break and run with it. He saw the down side of the games, not the upside for him. I still don't know if he realizes the mistake he made. I have only talked to his father since he came back, not him. So, chasing your dreams is important. You have to realize that one opportunity when the stars line up for you and take advantage of it. When the door swings open be ready to walk through it. If the door swings shut, know that you gave it everything you had and you will never regret a thing.

The ones who succeed in sports are often the most tenacious. I know so many examples of players that were suppose to go nowhere but had finally realize their dream because they never give up.

Nowadays, if someone doesn't make Midget AAA at 15-16, they dropped hockey. What a stupid mentallity. But they are often those who play for the fame or money hockey would bring to them. Those who really like hockey are those who will play as long as they could and appreciate all the moment of it.

Play and train for the passion and the desire to get better not for the money or the fame and etc...

It seems a simple sentence but most hockey players I know play the game for the worst reasons.

''99% of people act to win trophy or honors and 1% of people do not care of trophy, they act like they are already champions, they know what they worth''

[Jason Harris 31]

I'll be honest with you guys:  I'd take the pill without thinking twice...and I wouldn't regret it, either.

I turn 44 in two weeks, so I've had nine more years than that mythical pill would have given me. What's happened in those nine years?

I've moved to Colorado.

I've seen one daughter learn to walk and talk and read and play.

I've seen another daugter born, then walk, talk, read, play.

I've played soccer, hockey and baseball with my daughters.

I've made a little money on Wall Street.

I've lost a LOT of money of Wall Street.

I've started two businesses and lost even more money.....

I've visited friends and family every year.

I've gone to Disneyland, Legoland and other parks with my family.

We've started many family traditions around Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving, Halloween, etc.

I've argued with my wife on numerous occasions, and had extracurricular activities quite a bit more.

I've seen the Patriots win the Super Bowl and Red Sox the World Series.

I've met a number of HOF players.

I've skied, played hockey and softball, sledded with my family.

I could go on and on. So what haven't I done that the pill would give me? I stink at hockey, but I can go anywhere in the world without being accosted by strangers looking for an autograph while I'm trying to enjoy a meal with friends. And I hope to live long enough to add another fifty lines to my list.

You really think you wouldn't regret giving up 60% of your life just for a shot at fame? I GUARANTEE you would regret it at 34 99/100 when the alarm clock lets you know that you have one week to go.

[Project824 0]

I'll be honest with you guys:  I'd take the pill without thinking twice...and I wouldn't regret it, either.

I turn 44 in two weeks, so I've had nine more years than that mythical pill would have given me. What's happened in those nine years?

I've moved to Colorado.

I've seen one daughter learn to walk and talk and read and play.

I've seen another daugter born, then walk, talk, read, play.

I've played soccer, hockey and baseball with my daughters.

I've made a little money on Wall Street.

I've lost a LOT of money of Wall Street.

I've started two businesses and lost even more money.....

I've visited friends and family every year.

I've gone to Disneyland, Legoland and other parks with my family.

We've started many family traditions around Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving, Halloween, etc.

I've argued with my wife on numerous occasions, and had extracurricular activities quite a bit more.

I've seen the Patriots win the Super Bowl and Red Sox the World Series.

I've met a number of HOF players.

I've skied, played hockey and softball, sledded with my family.

I could go on and on. So what haven't I done that the pill would give me? I stink at hockey, but I can go anywhere in the world without being accosted by strangers looking for an autograph while I'm trying to enjoy a meal with friends. And I hope to live long enough to add another fifty lines to my list.

You really think you wouldn't regret giving up 60% of your life just for a shot at fame? I GUARANTEE you would regret it at 34 99/100 when the alarm clock lets you know that you have one week to go.

Salming,

I'm not knocking your life events in any way, nor am I pushing anyone to live otherwise. I will say that first, it is not impossible to do many of those things on that list as a pro hockey player/athlete/actor/musician/whatever. I know many who have been able to accomplish those things (both the great things on the list and the not so great), myself included living this life that we so speak of. We are each only human and the great things in life come along with the lows. But there are many things that a life in hockey has provided me with that I never would have experienced as an average person.

At 14-20 I would have taken the pill in second too - but now as I come out the other side of that life, I would never, since it may have changed the roads I traveled to get there. Prep school, junior hockey (yes, each and every out of the way backwoods stop and 18 hour bus ride of it), college and even minor pro: I wouldn't give a minute of it back now because it's made my life what it is. Yes, I wish I could have gone all the way up to the show and would have done anything for it, but if it would have changed who I am, I'm not sure NOW I would give up the family, friends and life I have NOW. Call it being satisfied with life, call it coming to terms with your place in life. I would sincerely hope that if I had made it to the show, I would be just as happy with my family, friends and life as I am now, and I think most guys there are. I wouldn't take that pill now, but only because now I know it would trivialize all the years, work, relationships, friends and experiences it takes to even get a sniff at it - which is the closest I got.

I think we actually agree for the most part - whatever path you take to the present day, we hope we are happy with our accomplishments. I just think it would be wrong to think that a guy who chased the dream couldn't be in a great place with great life experiences as well. I gave up the stated 60% of my life for a shot at fame and found it in fairly marginal doses that have passed. I'd put it at a much higher percentage than 60. I've fit in every life event I had hoped to this point in my life, alongside hockey. If the alarm clock gives me a week tomorrow I still wouldn't change a thing in my life. I'm ok with what I chose. I don't see any age where you won't regret seeing beyond, but what you can fit in to that point is most important. As for what you fit in, that's really up to you.

[LkptTiger 1]

You really think you wouldn't regret giving up 60% of your life just for a shot at fame? I GUARANTEE you would regret it at 34 99/100 when the alarm clock lets you know that you have one week to go.

To me, my dreams of making it to the Show were never really about the money or the fame. They were about the experience. They were about playing the game I have loved since I was four years old, and playing it at the highest level possible. They were about being at the rink or in the gym nearly every waking moment. They were about my teammates. They were about the order and the discipline, and, at the same time, the chaos and craziness. They were about the affirmation that the countless hours upon hours I have spent on the ice and in the gym were worth it.

Hockey has been my entire life, and given a choice between good hockey or long life, I choose good hockey six days a week and twice on Sunday.

(besides, the way I figure it, I'll probably be crippled by the time I'm 35, and I don't want to live a life in which I can't play with my kids or go to the rink and fly around the ice)

[Jason Harris 31]

I gave up the stated 60% of my life for a shot at fame and found it in fairly marginal doses that have passed. I'd put it at a much higher percentage than 60.

The 60% was just a rough calculation of how much of your life would you be giving up if you knowingly allowed it to expire at 35, when you could have lived into your 80's. Regarding whether one can have life experiences while a professional athlete, of course they can. They question is, essentially, would you knowingly give up 50 years of your life to reach the pinnacle of a professional sport for 17 years?

To me, my dreams of making it to the Show were never really about the money or the fame. They were about the experience. They were about playing the game I have loved since I was four years old, and playing it at the highest level possible. They were about being at the rink or in the gym nearly every waking moment. They were about my teammates. They were about the order and the discipline, and, at the same time, the chaos and craziness. They were about the affirmation that the countless hours upon hours I have spent on the ice and in the gym were worth it.

I understand about playing hockey against the best competition. And I understand about the comraderie with teammates -- a lot of ex-athletes say that is what they miss most. But it seems that taking a pill which automatically makes you one of the best also makes irrelevant all the countless hours upon hours spent at the rink and gym.

(besides, the way I figure it, I'll probably be crippled by the time I'm 35, and I don't want to live a life in which I can't play with my kids or go to the rink and fly around the ice)

You'd better hope that MSH is around in 17 years, so you can get a good chuckle at what you've written. :D

My best friend's father-in-law struggled with his health around age 84, to the point it was obvious he wouldn't survive, but he seemed to hold on for months. Warren told me about a conversation he had with his father-in-law, in which somehow the conversation was why don't you just let yourself go if you're in such pain. The response was he'd enjoyed his life with his family and friends so much, that he didn't want to give up one second of it.

It's just so hard for young kids to grasp the future, but I'll tell you that even if you were crippled and couldn't skate, you'd love standing at the side of the rink seeing the joy in your children as they have their fun.

[JR Boucicaut 3802]

You'd better hope that MSH is around in 17 years, so you can get a good chuckle at what you've written.  :D

Yep, I'll be 47 years old putting up exclusive pictures of the Vapor MCMXL.

Hell, by that time every brand would've merged with each other.

[LkptTiger 1]

Salming, I understand your arguements, brother, and I certainly concede that you make some good points.

Personally, my issue comes with the emotional pain and anguish I dealt with (and still deal with) after I got hurt and Junior (and, maybe later on, college) hockey was pretty well made impossible. I would do absolutely anything even just to get back to where I was and where I was going before the injury. I can't begin tell you how bad it hurts for me to go to, every once in awhile, stop and wonder where I would be and what I would be doing at that very moment had I not gotten hurt.

[hockeymom 2]

Lkpt, fully recognizing that everyone processes their grief differently, all I can say is I really understand what you are saying. It took me a long time to learn how to "adjust" my thinking from working to a goal to just enjoying it as a hobby. A long time. I really couldn't get how people did it "just for fun"... because my fun, my great, good joy came out of the hours of training, preparation and elite competition.

It's like a 4 colour world became black&white for a while (well, maybe sepia at times).

But, if I HAD made it, my life would be different - because our experiences shape us. Maybe it would be better, maybe it would be worse, who knows. But the joys in my life have been many and huge - yet they don't include the ONE thing I wanted more than any other - at that time and stage in my life.

It altered for me once I fully let go of the backwards mirror of coulda/mighta/shoulda and if only. Once I started looking forward and making new dreams and goals.

There was no way for me to "get" this back then - and really isn't anyway for you to "get" right now... until you are through the anguish and grief stage. Because you ARE grieving a death.

[hockeymom 2]

Here's another thought.... back when my daughter hit the wall at age 12 and life looked like it was over. I couldn't handle her pain, and tried to say things to make her feel better. My wise, wise kid stopped me cold "Mum, we're being HURT and ANGRY and SAD right now... maybe in a few days or weeks we can be something else or talk about it differently, but right now it is really hurt and really angry and incredibly sad"

She was right.... I shut up. There's nothing to be said to make it better... you just live through it. And then it gets better.

** EDIT: But I also believe that talking about the pain is very definitely part of the healing process - don't want anyone to misinterpret that.

[LkptTiger 1]

I really couldn't get how people did it "just for fun"... because my fun, my great, good joy came out of the hours of training, preparation and elite competition.

If there is one thing that I am really struggling with right now, it would be that.

Playing AAA hockey my whole life, I have been conditioned to go all-out at all times. I have been trained to finish my checks, drop infront of shots and get a bit chippy when need be. To me, that is the way the game was meant to be played - that is the game I fell in love with. I want to play in a game that feels like it actually means something. I take the game very, very seriously and I don't think I would be at all "content" in a setting in which I was constantly bring told to "settle down" as I fear I may be once I feel healthy enough to get myself into a beer league.

[Muzza_77 0]

Hey, sorry to hear about the injury LkptTiger, that would really suck. I guess I don't have any idea what your going through. All I can say is just don't give up and give it all you've got.

I am kinda like you. If I have a game with my friends it is just for fun and mucking around, it doesn't count. But as soon as you put me in a team situation in a comp or something I be dead serious. I do that because that is how I enjoy the game. I enjoy being serious and giving it all I have to win.

I want to make the Australian Mens field Hockey team and get as far as I can in inline hockey. My parents are sort of supportive. My mum is really supportive of both sports. My dad is more supportive of field hockey because it is a lot cheaper and he used to play it when he was younger which sucks since inline hockey is the one that requires more effort in relation to travelling and stuff.

"you miss 100% of the shots you don't take."