Skate Blade Rocker

[Tom351 0]

I understand the basics of what rocker does (basically a tradeoff between turn radius and gliding speed at any specific spec), my question is this:

When I take my skates in and ask for a sharpening (without asking for any certain spec) I assume that they just sharpen along the existing rocker, correct? They do not change the rocker in any way, right? Also, I assume that different brands of blades have different "stock" rocker specs. Also, does anyone else think that the "cutout" in Easton Razor Bladz steel could reduce the effective rocker since the blade deflects upwards in the middle under load? (I can make it bend a little just with my fingers)

TD

[JR Boucicaut 3805]

Yes, they sharpen along the existing radius. However it can be altered, especially if the sharpener cross-grinds the blades, etc.

If the radius has been changed from a stock to a custom one, the skates should be re-radiused every few months or so. Best way to check if your radius is changing is to draw an outline of the blades on a piece of paper, then check periodically.

As far as the Easton cutout goes, I don't like it due to the fact that when you sharpen and pull the skate off the jig and check for squareness, you need to figure out the exact spot how you had it on the holder for the final pass. On most skates, you put the skate's holder flush against the skate jig - however, on the Eastons, due to the cutout, you need to slide it a bit forward.

[asdfa 0]

(I can make it bend a little just with my fingers)

TD

i don't think you can bend it with your fingers, i used to have a pair of ultra lites and when i tried to bend the steel, it was actually the razor bladz holder that was bending

[bulletproof_funk 0]

I believe he meant he could bend the blade up and in towards the boot, not side to side. If that's the case, is there next to no steel left on the Razor Bladz?

When should skates be cross-grinded and when shouldn't they be? Or is it a matter of preference? One store told me they don't cross grind their skates so they better preserve any contour/radius. Another told me they lightly cross-grind first to get the nicks out of the blade.

[JR Boucicaut 3805]

I RARELY cross-grind. You should be able to take out pretty much all of the nicks by just sharpening. Keep in mind that if you have a huge chunk of blade missing, then yes, you'll have to crossgrind.

Some sharpeners are taught to crossgrind every time, find dead center, then sharpen. I do the same, however I don't have to crossgrind. Every blade is different so there's a slight adjustment to be made.

[bulletproof_funk 0]

So cross-grinding effectively grinds away the edges, giving a "flat hollow?"

And by centering you mean for the hollow so one edge isn't higher than the other?

[JR Boucicaut 3805]

Yes, and yes. Cross-grinding will make the hollow completely flat.

[bulletproof_funk 0]

B) Just making sure. Thanks.

[Tom351 0]

Yes, I was talking about bending it up towards the boot (in a away that would decrease the rocker), but upon reading this and doing it again, I think that the blade appears to bend, but it IS really just the center of the holder bending towards the blade when I sqeeze them.

Thanks for the tech guys

[TCsnipes9 0]

after selling a new pair of skates i always cross-grind them. usually the factory cut steels are NOT even and it will take numerous passes to get them equal. eventually, making the steel hight (possibly) un-even from skate to skate.

JR- do you always do the exact same number of cross grinds on both skates, regardless of weather u hit it all or not?

[JR Boucicaut 3805]

Sorry, I should've specified - yes, I cross-grind new skates.

When I answered his question, it was if there was an existing sharpening.

And yes, I do the exact same number of cross-grinds on each skate.

[chippa13 1844]

I understand the basics of what rocker does (basically a tradeoff between turn radius and gliding speed at any specific spec), my question is this:

When I take my skates in and ask for a sharpening (without asking for any certain spec) I assume that they just sharpen along the existing rocker, correct? They do not change the rocker in any way, right? Also, I assume that different brands of blades have different "stock" rocker specs. Also, does anyone else think that the "cutout" in Easton Razor Bladz steel could reduce the effective rocker since the blade deflects upwards in the middle under load? (I can make it bend a little just with my fingers)

TD

The trade off is not between turn radius and gliding speed. The trade off is between turn radius and push off. Using the same hollow, radiused blades will glide faster than non-radiused because there is less steel in contact with the ice, therefore less drag. Non-radiused blades will give you a stronger push off because there is more steel in contact with the ice and therefore more energy is able to be transferred in each push off.

[Chadd 916]

The longer radius really doesn't make much difference in terms of pushing off. First the amount of additional steel on the ice is fairly small. Second, you get more force from your forefoot than you do your heel, so cut the difference (amount of steel) in half. The biggest difference with the longer radius is noticed when the entire length of the steel is on the ice.

[Tom351 0]

Using the same hollow, radiused blades will glide faster than non-radiused because there is less steel in contact with the ice, therefore less drag.

I have always thought that more steel in contact with the ice would produce less drag beacause the weight is distributed across more area (just like longer snow skis are faster- but on a smaller scale). Don't speed skates have less rocker for this very reason? Am I wrong about this?

[Chadd 916]

You are correct Tom.

[bulletproof_funk 0]

So if you had an 11' rocker with the toe and possibly heel of the blades more rounded off (i.e. compound radius), would the skate turn as quick as a smaller 9' rocker, assuming the hollow remains the same? Would you get the advantages of the longer rocker glide with the short rocker maneuverability?

[Chadd 916]

I've mostly seen defensemen using a compound radius. I assume it's to allow for maximum speed while skating backwards. while keeping a more aggressive cut up front. It's rare in a game that your skates are perfectly flat.

[chippa13 1844]

I've mostly seen defensemen using a compound radius. I assume it's to allow for maximum speed while skating backwards. while keeping a more aggressive cut up front. It's rare in a game that your skates are perfectly flat.

There are a couple of reasons why defensemen tend to go with a longer radius. It is easier to skate backwards with a little more blade on the ice and it also makes it a little easier to balance on more steel.

[Chadd 916]

Some just plain prefer it too. The quote was in reference to a question on compound radius though, not the other preferences.

[Tom351 0]

What is the standard hollow that is used for most "house sharpenings"?

[Chadd 916]

What is the standard hollow that is used for most "house sharpenings"?

Around here it's mostly 1/2 with one shop being a 3/8.

[JR Boucicaut 3805]

Depends on where you live.

My 'house cut' is 1/2". I've heard of places which offer 3/8" and deeper.

[Tom351 0]

Ok, my next question, I just switched from Tacks to Z-Air and the Z-Airs appear to have more rocker. The feel verifies this- they seem to carve turns more quickly, but seem to lose speed faster while gliding. Would you recommend trying a shallower hollow if I would like to reduce the drag that I feel? Also, my old skates were pretty dull when I switched to the Eastons- how much does a fresh sharpening affect the gliding drag of a skate? I assume that a fresh cut will glide a bit "slower" but is it really noticeable?

Thanks again for the info, you guys rock!

TD

[Chadd 916]

The CCMs should have had a 10 ft radius, and I think the Easton is similar. I'm a big fan of having good edges so I never let my edges get too worn down. I do use a shallow hollow, currently 5/8-3/4, to help cut down on the drag.

[Tom351 0]

I just called the place that did mine, they use 7/16"- maybe I will go with 1/2" next time or maybe 9/16" if that is an option.