skating too bent over at waist

[Hockeydog 8]

This may be more of a technique issue and thus not belong here. Feel free to move it if so. I find that I skate with a rather bent over back. I noticed myself in the glass while skating one day. If I straighten up at the waist I feel I might fall backwards. I am about 5'10" and have a 32" inseam, somewhat short in the leg for my height. I always thought this was why I bent over too much. Could a skate profile help me out here, or is it mostly a technique issue? I have tried two pairs of skates, Graf 704's size 9 with a slight toe pitch,( fit is about 1/2"too long in the toe) and RBK 5K size 8 ( close to perfect fit length wise) with factory profile only. It really takes a lot of energy to skate that way. I do have a some knee bend when I skate. Any advice from the experts here would be appreciated!!

[OhMyGodImOnFire 0]

I know someone who skates like that, always has made me laugh. I guess I'll tell him whatever shows up here :lol:

[Hockeydog 8]

That was helpful.

[gman 0]

Welcome to MSH....

Seriously though, my son is doing the same thing. As far as I know, it is technique and not gear. You may not be getting as much bite with your blades as you think you are and so you're going over the tip of your blade rather than using the edges as much as you could. Otherwise, just concentrate on keeping an exaggerated bend in your knees. If you feel like your thighs are going to explode, you are probably doing it right. I am sure there are lots of folk with way more experience than I have who can chime in with better advice. You might also try to find a skating clinic or see if anyone at your rink can help. Many guys have said that figure skaters can really help with technique too.

[AnthonyJTa 0]

I know someone who skates like that, always has made me laugh. I guess I'll tell him whatever shows up here :lol:

I'm sorry, but this was rather rude and you didn't even give a shred of positive feedback toward the guy's inquiry..

Anyways, Hockeydog...

I've been skating for about a year now, and when I first started in my RBK skates, I felt the same way. When I started skating with other guys in my pickup hour, I noticed I wasn't getting nearly deep enough knee bend as the rest of the skaters. My brother is always nagging me "get down! get down!!" which helps.

I also could never get on my heels when I would pivot, etc... I starting tinkering with a neutral radius and noticed I'm not so wobbly, or feeling like I'm so prone to falling backwards.

[Hockeydog 8]

Thanks Anthony!! I will give your and gman's advice a go. I feel like I bend my knees but I'll have to check that out, feeling and reality are not always the same.

[gman 0]

I know someone who skates like that, always has made me laugh. I guess I'll tell him whatever shows up here :lol:

I'm sorry, but this was rather rude and you didn't even give a shred of positive feedback toward the guy's inquiry..

Don't be sorry, call it like you see it. It was not rather rude, but actually completely rude. It was also a waste of a post... Probably like some people will think this one is.

[Allsmokenopancake 0]

Thanks Anthony!! I will give your and gman's advice a go. I feel like I bend my knees but I'll have to check that out, feeling and reality are not always the same.

I used to do the same, now I am still not a strong skater by any means, however, one thing I find useful, if you bend your knees until it's just starting to feel uncomfortable, that should help.

You will be outside your comfort zone until you practice it for some time, but I think I overcompensated lean for knee bend, and probably still do sometimes, but the deeper knee bend will feel unstable, but gets better.

Hope that helps

[hockeymom 2]

If you can get someone to video your skating it will really help. My daughter thought she was really bending at the knees and was shocked to see how straight legged she actually was.

For the most part - I think initially it was a balance issue. She was bending at the waist to keep her balance, and felt that she was going to fall back if she bent at the knees and "sat down".

[gman 0]

If you can get someone to video your skating it will really help. My daughter thought she was really bending at the knees and was shocked to see how straight legged she actually was.

I keep threatening to film my son. He is convinced he bends his knees. I call it "Frankensteining". Just yesterday he was doing it down the floor and getting overtaken. I broke my vow of silence and yelled "Skate for it!" Low and behold he bent his knees, dropped his butt, extended his stride, pumped his arms, his back straightned up a little and he won the puck.

I asked him about it after the game hoping for a little credit, but he says "the other kids just slowed down". DOH!!!!

[riesman20 0]

I skate the same way and actually think that is a good thing as you are always on your toes, I am old but fast. There is one negative drawback, if you are near the boards and get hit or pushed from behind (with all of your weight forward) than you will be kissing glass.

Why change if it works for you.

[hockeymom 2]

There are a lot of people on MSH who know much more about this than I do, but let me take a stab at it....

If you are bending at the waist and not the knees, your weight may be over your toes but you are not balanced over your toes. You can feel this on dry-land... If you stand bent at the waist you can see how top-heavy and off-balance you are compared with bending your knees and squatting with your upper body tilting forward.

Bending your knees keeps you in balance and gives you much more power - making your stride more powerful and efficient. It actually takes less physical effort when you are skating in the right position.

Bending from the waist and not the knees makes it especially harder to make any quick lateral moves. In essence, you have to "pick up" your upper body, shift your balance and then move.

At first, especially if you have spent years skating in the wrong position, it is going to feel like you are worse off changing your skating position. It is, frankly, going to be more difficult to do things in the short term. But once you correct your position a whole new level of possibilities with your skating will open up. In my opinion that makes the effort of working though it worth while.

[Datsyukiandeek 0]

Bad technique may not always be a problem. If you're keeping up with the play and your band stance isn't slowing you down or cutting down your mobility then theres no problem. Even in the NHL theres a decent amount of skaters who have questionable technique but can fly. Gretzky was one of them..

[Hockeydog 8]

Sadly I am not always keeping up. Not too far behind but not keeping up. I tried your demonstration, Hockeymom, I feel what you are saying. I have also watched your girl skake, she can go ! I think I need to get a video or trained eye on me, I have a feeling based on all the much appreciated posts ( except one) that I feel like I'm bending more than I really am! I guess when you hit the edge of your comfort level you feel really bent over even if you are not! Thanks everyone.

[Zamboni 6]

As someone mentioned , your going to feel it in your thighs but that knee bend is worth the effort. Don't try for a large increase in one week but build towards getting enough knee bend that when looking down your knees are out past your toes.

Try 'pushing off' against a partner, you'll see how much more power is generated by getting lower with good knee bend.

[Hockeydog 8]

Well Zamboni, I always try and get to the goals to push them in place either after a game befoe you come out or right before a game, after you have done your thing!! I really do feel the need to get lower when I do that, but never translated to my skating without resistance. Thanks !!!

[hockeymom 2]

Hockeydog, you might want to speak with someone about profiling your skates too. I am certainly not an expert in this area, and not overly familiar with RBK skates... so treat this as considerations not direction...lol

It strikes me that your intuition about the difference in your upper and lower body proportion would make a difference in how you compensate for balance and you may well find that a profile will make it easier to adjust your technique. You would have to make certain the skate really does fit you well.

RBK comes from the factory with an 11' radius and I believe a more neutral pitch. Another factor to consider is how long the runner on your skate is and I'm sorry but I'm not familiar enough with RBK to know where a size 8 falls out. At any rate, the longer radius does give you stability and a longer glide. Not sure where you are with your skating but there are some possibilities of adjustment with radius... But anything I might say on this would be pure speculation rather than an expert opinion.

In terms of pitch, well one of the questions that started me down the path of my obsession on profiling was wondering if I had the pitch moved forward on my daughter (who bends at the waist and not the knees) would it cause her to pitch forward onto her nose?? Putting it in simplistic terms, being pitched forward actually gave her something to sit back on, and made it easier to get into the correct position. (well, she's not quite there yet, but it is coming along) Hope that makes sense...lol

A 1/32 change in pitch feels like about 1/2" at the hip. So I think you would benefit from speaking to an expert to figure out what would be optimum for you - based on your body proportion, technique and skating ummm... challenges. But I would tend to go with a heel lift so you can easily try different adjustments without grinding the steel away. Unless an expert on this thought a heel lift wasn't appropriate with a plastic outsole, (I think the 5K has) for some reason I haven't discovered yet.

Sorry so long and not at all conclusive... but I hope it helps as "thought starters".

(BTW - thanks for the kind words about my daughter)

[biff44 0]

I would not go with any gimmicks. I would pay someone to teach me how to skate upright!

[JR Boucicaut 3802]

A "gimmick" as you call it, if done correctly will correct the skater to make it easier to get into that position, instead of trying to alter someone's pre-existing skating style.

[Hockeydog 8]

Thanks Hockeymom! I'll work on both my knee bend and find someone local that knows their stuff and get a consult on any skate profiling that works for my natural body type. I think JR said that the stock prifile on RBK's were 10, I might look at an 11' for now with just a bit of toe pitch. It makes sense that your daughter has something to sit back on with a forward pitch. I have read many of your other posts here Hockeymom, you are an asset to this board and all of us finding our way in this incredible sport!!

[AnthonyJTa 0]

A "gimmick" as you call it, if done correctly will correct the skater to make it easier to get into that position, instead of trying to alter someone's pre-existing skating style.

well, I was waiting for a pro to chime in on that response.. as I'm not too familiar with the technical aspect of getting a custom radius, I can in fact attest that I no longer get the same discomfort in my knees, lower back, and hips... obviously making my skating experience MUCH better. I am capable of putting more weight into my shots, etc.

In all seriousness, if I just left the radius on my skates alone, and continued to play with the aches & pains I had put up with- I would have quit playing a while ago.

[hockeymom 2]

oops, my bad... if the king, JR, said a 10' he is of course right....

I'm blushing from your comments

[JR Boucicaut 3802]

See, that's the problem with radiusing. I have this discussion with a customer at least once a week.

A lot of guys who do it try to sell you a magic formula. They tell the parent they can make their kid a faster skater, or whatever, and they throw them into something that totally disrupts them. Then they come back and what do they say?

"Oh, they'll get used to it." Because, of course, little Johnny's going to the Show.

It should be about optimizing and correcting, not throwing them into something that in theory, will make them a better skater.

oops, my bad... if the king, JR, said a 10' he is of course right....

I'm blushing from your comments

I am going by ProLite3 numbers. Will have to check E.

[Dante2004 0]

Although you are probably right, it is skating technique, it could also be something as simple as stick length. Check that too. I am one of those "odd-balls" that uses a chest high stick, rather than the text book chin height. It improves my ability to stick handle... Anyway, I constantly have to stop myself from falling into bad skating habbits. Naturally, it is easier to bend your waist, not your legs to get closer to the ice and compensate for the short stick. Stick lie would have a similar impact.

I always look for the simple solutions first. You never know, you MIGHT just save yourself a lot of $$$ on skate modifications and skating clinics. And it will only take you 30 seconds to either embrace or dismiss the stick height/lie possibility.

[ktang 34]

If you can get someone to video your skating it will really help. My daughter thought she was really bending at the knees and was shocked to see how straight legged she actually was.

For the most part - I think initially it was a balance issue. She was bending at the waist to keep her balance, and felt that she was going to fall back if she bent at the knees and "sat down".

How long have you been skating, and how old are you?

The image of "sitting down" and "lowering the bum" works better than "bending the knees" for some skaters.

If it's hard to maintain that position, you might have to strengthen your quads or give them more endurance (single-leg squats, wall sits).