Difficulty with converting to t'blades.

[Admerylous 0]

I've skated on great white Nike Airs forever. Gross, I know.

Eyelets started popping out and I started noticing the significant difference in skate weight today. So I decided to take the plunge and buy new skates. I purchased a pair of Vector 130ZG with the t'blade system.

This is my problem:

The old skates were Tuuk+ Nike Airs with a 1/2" hollow.

The CCM Vectors with t'blades are on the 7/16" (13mm) hollow.

I felt as though I somehow had MORE bite on the OLD skates with the 1/2" hollow as opposed to the t'blades 7/16". It's as if all of the power I'm putting into my stride is just sliding right across the surface of the ice, never cutting in to propel me forward. I got lighter skates to improve acceleration, not kill it.

I've now been on the t'blades for about 5 hours now. I feel as though I'm at the point where I've sufficiently "relearned" to skate with them, bend of the knees, etc. They still just feel... wrong.

I went to the 7/16" for a few reasons on the t'blade. First, I was getting my skates sharpened every ~3 hours of ice time. I assumed that perhaps the reason I was sharpening this often was because the 1/2" truly wasn't a deep enough hollow for me. Secondly, they came stock on these skates .

What could the explanation for this be? Why do I feel like I'm not getting any bite on t'blades with a deeper hollow?

I do feel as though I have considerably more bite on turns, though. I feel as though I can lean into my turns significantly more without worries of losing an edge.

Any advice to resolve this problem with these skates and the t'blades?

PS. I had 11 individual blisters after my first ~3 hours on them (ankles, inner side). They've been heat molded, too. I expected some discomfort, but .. ouch. :(

[JR Boucicaut 3805]

Yeah, go back to regular blades. :)

I experienced the same thing when I experimented.

[BK 0]

http://www.modsquadhockey.com/forums/index...showtopic=18137

I went back to regular. (but I took the time to get used to them). I am one of the few, if any people who are on the fence about tblades. I like them and I like conv. steel. I can use either.

[Admerylous 0]

Yeah, BK, I had read that entire thread. It didn't seem like you had a similar issue with acceleration or bite, though.

I'm going to drop down to 11mm hollow on the t'blades and give them one last chance, I guess. This is pretty frustrating, I'm on a tight budget.

Another question...

Does anyone know if I'd notice much of any difference putting some Tuuk holders onto these CCM Vector 130ZG boots? By a difference I mean from my previous Nike Airs with Tuuk+. Have they changed at all in the last.. 5 years? Anything unique?

[LkptTiger 1]

My experience is that T'Blades are for some (a very small "some") and not for most.

I can tell you that my experience with T'Blades (going on about three years now) has been, at the risk of sounding gay, magical.

Hijack attempt: Has anyone heard more about the release of carbon T'Blades? I've been searching and searching and have come-up with nothing. I'm in the market for some new skates, most likely One90s, and would be looking to get T'Blades, preferably carbon (admittedly, for aesthetic appeal). Thanks, boys.

[Jason Harris 31]

I realize you wrote that you've "relearned" bending the knees, but any blade will engage properly if its edges are at the proper angle to the ice. Thus, if you feel like you're sliding over the ice and not engaging on the t'blades, then you aren't bending your knees properly.

You've probably seen me state this in numerous threads, but I felt like I was skating on butter knives for the first five sessions, although the increased turning radius was noticeable on the first shift. I also remember my quads burning at the last inch, where they connect to the knees. It was obvious I had to bend deeper and my muscles weren't accustomed to it; however, that went away by the third session. Still, it took five sessions until I finally had developed muscle memory for the new stride.

I've also written this before, but place one of the Nike Airs on a table and bend it to the side until it's on the edge of its blade. Depending on how much blade has been sharpened away, it probably won't take much more than a 20 degree lean from straight upright. Now repeat the process with your Vectors. You'll see that it will take closer to a 30+ degree lean from upright.

That illustrates two things. It's quite possible for a t'blade's edge to cut into the ice, and one obviously has to bend much greater than before to engage during the straight ahead stride. Admittedly, that may sound tiring, but once I found the correct stride, it wasn't any more tiring than before.

[Admerylous 0]

Salming, I'm not sure if I understand you clearly on your table lean example. Aren't both edges level to one another (when unused)? So at 0 degrees they'd be flush on the surface and even a 1 degree tilt should technically cause one of the ends to now be raised?

I was wondering, I do not know the length of the rocker on my Tuuk+ setup on the Nike Airs. Is it possible that the position in order to get the power out of my stride is in a different location than my muscle memory is used to either due to a longer rocker or a differently balanced point?

On the flip side, wouldn't I notice if the rocker balance or length was different?

I appreciate any information or clarification on these issues.

[Jason Harris 31]

What I mean is put each skate flat on the table, side-by-side, then lean them to one side until the skate is on that side's edge. It's quickly apparent that the t'blade skate has to lean further to the side to get on the edge. I believe this is due to the significantly thinner profile of steel (i.e., a conventional blade often has 5/8" of steel from holder to ice, while a t'balde is about 3/16"). In other words, the t'blade is a lot closer to the ice and that requires a greater lean to get on its edge.

Regarding the position of the rocker, I would assume a change in balance point could affect your stride. The t'blade's rocker is in the center, although the holder is pitched forward. I think that effectively moved the rocker to the rear for me when I switched, but it's been so long that I don't remember.

[Admerylous 0]

Perhaps I am just not understanding you correctly, because what you are saying about the table lean is making absolutely no sense at all to me. I'm sorry.

[D aka speck 0]

I used to have Vapor XI (11) skates with a 3/8 hollow. They were too stiff in the ankle for me. I replaced them with Graf 502 SE's (with T' Blades). I started out with the 3/8 equivelent of 15mm medium rocker (model # M-15-288 to be exact). They were too sharp. I switched to a 13mm (M-13-288) and haven't had any problems since. I actually get 4 to 5 weeks out of a set of blades and keep a used set around for pond hockey, they are cheaper for me in the long run.

Yes, they are different. There's no doubt about that.

A general rule I use to gauge skate hollow is... if I slip when I turn, they're too dull (I know, that's a given :) ) If they chatter or bounce when I stop, they're too sharp. Try the happy medium for a bit $17 is a lot less than new blades and holders right?

[Admerylous 0]

powertek, that's sort of part of the problem.

Old blades had a shallower hollow, but feel as though they had more bite (aside from leaning turns).

t'blades, with a sharper hollow, are just slipping across the surface of the ice.

I'm on the 300-M-13 currently, and will give the 300-M-11 a try, but an 11mm hollow is quite sharp for someone of my size (6'4" 205 pounds).

Actually, I'll probably go back to my Nike Airs until the playoffs are over, and then try the 11mm.

[mew1838 0]

I'm ok with T-blades. I think this sliding thing u have is because t-blades are thinner than regular blades.

[D aka speck 0]

You mentioned blisters galore. Was your new skate fit properly?

I too would finish playoffs in familiar skates.

I'm not sure though that I'm on the same page when you talk about slipping.

Is the CCM pitched different in the boot than the Nike Air?

My experiences are that t' blades seem sharper than regular steel.

[greatone 0]

Obviously the blisters have nothing to do with the T-blades set-up. It sounds as if you are NOT comfortable in that boot. I have worn T-blades for two years now on my Vapor XXX's and never experienced anything as you describe. I just recently went back to the LS2's. It was really no big deal with the changeover (Back to LS 2's). You may need a Long rocker and opposed to the medium. Don't give up so easy. Good luck.

[Jason Harris 31]

Perhaps I am just not understanding you correctly, because what you are saying about the table lean is making absolutely no sense at all to me. I'm sorry.

Okay, I think I know what I might explaining wrongly. I'm referring to what I'll call the 'apex' or 'point' of the edge. Imagine wearing your left Nike Air and right Vector while standing on the ice. Initially, the underside of both edges of both skates are touching the ice. Now lean to the right. Obviously, as you increase your lean, the left edge of each skate slowly lifts off the ice, while the right edge slowly increases to that apex to which I was referring. However, if you were able to look from behind you would see that, when the Nike Air has leaned enough to reach the apex of its edge, the Vector's blade still looks like it's on the underside of its edge. It needs to lean even further to the right before it reaches the point of the edge.

If I've explained it better this time, try to see for yourself. Get down to eye level with the table while you lean one of each skate to the right. Stop them when they each are on the point of the edge. You will see your Vectors are leaning slightly closer to the table. So how does that affect one's skating? Well, obviously it takes a greater angle on t'blades skates for their edges to 'engage' -- again, I believe this is because they are literally about a 1/2" closer to the ice -- and the only way to reach that greater angle is by bending the knees. If you think about it, ALL blades, no matter how dull, have an 'edge.' It's just a question of how much lean is needed to get onto that edge. That is why some of the sharpeners on this forum have said sharper hollows are a crutch, since they require less lean.

The bottom line is the t'blades might not be for you. But I'd bet big dollars that the sensation of sliding over the ice and not catching your edges is because you're not bending enough, even though you probably think you are.

[Chadd 916]

The bottom line is the t'blades might not be for you. But I'd bet big dollars that the sensation of sliding over the ice and not catching your edges is because you're not bending enough, even though you probably think you are.

Most t'blade users end up using a much deeper hollow than what they used with standard blades. My experience was similar, in as much as despite using a deeper hollow, I did not have the same bite as I did with conventional blades. Amazingly enough, I also had less glide.

[jcp2 2]

My understanding is that the T-blade blade is more flexible than a standard steel blade. Maybe that flex affects the bite of the edge when pushing off?

[huffer4 0]

My experience is that T'Blades are for some (a very small "some") and not for most.

I can tell you that my experience with T'Blades (going on about three years now) has been, at the risk of sounding gay, magical.

Hijack attempt: Has anyone heard more about the release of carbon T'Blades? I've been searching and searching and have come-up with nothing. I'm in the market for some new skates, most likely One90s, and would be looking to get T'Blades, preferably carbon (admittedly, for aesthetic appeal). Thanks, boys.

I think they would look pretty cool on One90's.

They are on this site. I don't know if you can actually get them. I think they have been out in Europe for a while.

http://www.hockeyservices.com/shop-bin/sc/...er/paccess.html

[Admerylous 0]

As an aside regarding the fit of the skate and such. The skates fit very well, and have been heat molded. The blisters are due to a mix of sock selection and the increased boot stiffness relative to my previous skates.

I picked up a pair of 11mm runners today, I'll update this thread with my experience with them once the playoffs are over and I give them another shot.

[Chadd 916]

My understanding is that the T-blade blade is more flexible than a standard steel blade. Maybe that flex affects the bite of the edge when pushing off?

Mine flexed so much they were warped after 3-4 sessions.

[Jason Harris 31]

Well, you shouldn't have bought such a crappy pair of skates..... :D

[Chadd 916]

Well, you shouldn't have bought such a crappy pair of skates..... :D

The boots are fine, though a bit small. I was just shocked by how badly the runners got warped.

[AnthonyJTa 0]

My experience is that T'Blades are for some (a very small "some") and not for most.

I can tell you that my experience with T'Blades (going on about three years now) has been, at the risk of sounding gay, magical.

Hijack attempt: Has anyone heard more about the release of carbon T'Blades? I've been searching and searching and have come-up with nothing. I'm in the market for some new skates, most likely One90s, and would be looking to get T'Blades, preferably carbon (admittedly, for aesthetic appeal). Thanks, boys.

I think they would look pretty cool on One90's.

They are on this site. I don't know if you can actually get them. I think they have been out in Europe for a while.

http://www.hockeyservices.com/shop-bin/sc/...er/paccess.html

I know a few people were looking....

t'Blades on One90's

[LkptTiger 1]

Sweet look. Good eye. Thanks for putting that up, buddy.

[Admerylous 0]

Those would look really good if t'blades still were popping out the black runners. The white just sort of clashes.