Tootoo's sucker punch

[Eazy_b97 1]

They don't always deem it illegal. You may get a base, but the rules are completely different.

What sport allows fighting without an ejection, aside from Hockey? The only sport which was a comparable atmosphere, with hitting like hockey, is Lacrosse and it happens there.

[warrior37 0]

knock out punches with a glove on happen on a nightly basis? do you have the center ice package or something?

[Eazy_b97 1]

Pushes and baby punches happen nightly, not a superman punch like Tootoo.

And there is now a "hockey definition" of a sucker punch? Domi was looking Samuelson square in the face when he knocked him out. It's still a sucker punch.

Slashes and high sticks happen on a nightly basis as well, should Simon have gotten off the hook?

You continue to overlook the force Tootoo used in this situation which was clearly excessive.

[mack 44]

Theo-

I think this is one of the parts of the game you don't understand since I don't believe you played growing up. Sure, you expect a little confrontation if someone's coming up but you don't expect said person to be ready to throw a punch. There are plenty of instances where someone's just going to rush you and at worst shove you or even give you a facial with the glove. Besides, it was Stephane freakin' Robidas, who's like 5'9".

[huffer4 0]

Theo-

I think this is one of the parts of the game you don't understand since I don't believe you played growing up. Sure, you expect a little confrontation if someone's coming up but you don't expect said person to be ready to throw a punch. There are plenty of instances where someone's just going to rush you and at worst shove you or even give you a facial with the glove. Besides, it was Stephane freakin' Robidas, who's like 5'9".

But by skating in at a fast speed and with his arms up ready to elbow, Tootoo must have known Robidas wasn't just going to give him a shove.

[mack 44]

It's not a cheap shot, Theo, I'm just saying there are things to the game that you have to experience to understand. You can expect retalialition but you shouldn't expect the worst-case scenario. Take it as a cheap shot if you will, but looking at your pissy attacks on Eazy I'd have to say you're a little black too, Pot.

[CHIEF22 0]

They don't always deem it illegal. You may get a base, but the rules are completely different.

What sport allows fighting without an ejection, aside from Hockey? The only sport which was a comparable atmosphere, with hitting like hockey, is Lacrosse and it happens there.

Sorry, my bad on the comparison. I was comparing intentionally hitting a batter to, lets say, boarding. Both are not within the rules as legal. Like I said I dont have a problem with that, but if it is a good clean hit there should be absolutely no reason for retaliation. Hence my reference to the football hit.

[mack 44]

Hitting a batter is in no way anything like boarding. Hitting a batter is baseball's version of a fight.

[Eazy_b97 1]

Use your common sense, Eazy. There are certain niches for everything. I found your definition, but it doesn't mean it applies perfectly for everything. It is tweaked in a game like hockey, where punching is common place during fights. I'll listen to the likes of the the annoucers and big bob, as he did not call it a sucker punch either.

Common sense? You realize immediately after the incident it was called a sucker punch by their talking heads, right? Also called a sucker punch on sportsnet.

Again, I'll ask, which you still haven't answered. If that is the definition of a sucker punch, was Domi's a sucker punch on Samuelson? There's a link on Youtube, it's face to face.

You've picked out someone else's opinion and are stating it as a fact. I've said earlier that you can debate the definition, this is the one I am using. If you replace sucker punch with cheap shot, it's still illegal.

There you go bringing in the Simon incident again. Apples and Oranges. For you to bring that up makes me really question how serious you are about this. But once again, who can forget your views on the Bertuzzi situation

You are REALLY struggling with the theory on this. If you can't keep up, don't attempt to.

I'll ask again, and would like answers.

Do Slashes and high sticks happen on a nightly basis?

This doesn't make Simon's actions acceptable, because he used excessive force, like Tootoo did.

As for Bertuzzi, here you go, my last post on the issue

I'm not so sure. I was involved in incidents almost Identical to the Bert situation twice this year. Both ended up in concussions, one a bit worse. We've talked about this in a few different threads. Players play their role and have to expect certain things. Moore did not deserve this nor should he have expected it. However the way the NHL is now he should've expected some sort of retaliation from the Vancouver players. He should've been willing to fight . Whether it is right that he should be expected to fight for what some believe to be a clean hit or not, when you do something like that to what may be the NHLs best player you need to expect something. I do not agree with what Bert did, but I don't think he is 100% to blame either, he was frustrated and I believe he intended to stun him into fighting . I've seen alot of fighters do this, he let his emotions get the better of him, however I don't think he should pay through the ways of the law.

Tootoo never gave Robidas the option to fight. This is the monumental difference. As well as the intent. I believe Tootoo's intention was to KO Robidas. If it wasn't, wouldn't he have squared off?

[huffer4 0]

Tootoo never gave Robidas the option to fight. This is the monumental difference. As well as the intent. I believe Tootoo's intention was to KO Robidas. If it wasn't, wouldn't he have squared off?

Robidas never gave the option to Tootoo to fight either. He just came plowing in to take his head off.

[warrior37 0]

okay, he did come plowing in, but he DIDNT take tootoo's head off, and we will never know what wouldve happened. plain and simple is tootoo threw a big league, glove on, knock out punch.

[Wayne 0]

I am still amazed at the logic being used with this issue. I'm sorry but Theo/ huffer, maybe you guys play too much Grand Theft Auto.

By justifying these actions, someone could be walking down the street, do something I don't like, and when I go up to confront him about it can clock me in the face... plain and simple- it cannot be justified and makes the entire sport look like a f'in Joke.

[GoHawks 0]

I don't know if comparing it to a confrontation would be right. Robidas came in hot, wasn't going to stop, looked to me like he was gonna take off Tootoo's head for a clean check. I know, protect the skill players, but there's a difference between protecting a guy and trying to kill someone for a clean check. Like people are saying, if there wasn't a KO, it wouldn't be an issue. I don't think Tootoo had any other options in this case, other than get some teeth knocked out. Just my two cents.

[mack 44]

That is your opinion and you are perfectly within your rights to state it. why do you have to say that we play too much GTA? Give me a break and act your age.

haha you got butt-hurt when I said you didn't play for a team.

[Wayne 0]

why do you have to say that we play too much GTA? Give me a break and act your age.

It was a statement meant to be funny- video games cloud judgement-, get a rise out of you, I see it did. Most 23 year old guys do this from time to time, forgive me for acting my age.

BTW- 30 years ago if it was the son of Sam that you decked in the face as he confronted you, it would have been a good move, eh? B)

I must be missing something with this here...

[mack 44]

Yeah, it's to fear mailmen and to always act defencively to the point of being grossly offencive.

[huffer4 0]

I am still amazed at the logic being used with this issue. I'm sorry but Theo/ huffer, maybe you guys play too much Grand Theft Auto.

By justifying these actions, someone could be walking down the street, do something I don't like, and when I go up to confront him about it can clock me in the face... plain and simple- it cannot be justified and makes the entire sport look like a f'in Joke.

If a guy on the street came running at me with his elbow up to hit me in the head, I would not hesitate to punch him in the face.

[Wayne 0]

Anyways, Son of Sam, Wayne! The guy in NY who went on a killing spree:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_Sam

I was not familiar with Son of Sam. But I'm glad to see we can agree on one thing- bringing humor to the discussion. It was getting too serious for me. Leave the crap like this for Gary Bettman to deal with.

[Chadd 916]

I go away to the sun and sand for a couple days and all hell breaks loose.

I'm with Eazy for the most part on this one for a couple (of my own) reasons;

1- Tootoo is a marginal NHL player who stays in the league because of his willingness to try and injure other players. His hit on Modano was high and dangerous, just like dozens of his other hits. Guys who don't care if their actions injure, or end the careers of, other players shouldn't have a place in the NHL.

2- It was a sucker punch. If I'm standing facing someone and suddenly throw a punch out of nowhere, it's a sucker punch.

I also think Robidas was doing the right thing. When a teammate gets hit in a manner you don't like, you should stand up for them. It doesn't matter if you're a sub-6' guy from Quebec or a 6-6 goon from Michigan. Doing that earns respect from the other guys in the locker room and helps build team chemistry. Modano did nothing to help and that would bother me if I was on his team.

Robidas deserved the penalty for charging, doing the right thing doesn't mean that he didn't deserve a penalty. Tootoo would never have been given the instigator if there had been a clean fight after the sucker punch and there never would have been a suspension. This is the NHL reacting to a rash of injuries caused by cheap shots and punishing the result and not the action.

The NHL needs to find a new guy to hand out suspensions and handle discipline, Colin Campbell has done a very poor job over the last few years and the league needs to better address the issues it has.

[Eazy_b97 1]

1)That punch was not a true sucker punch. It was more on the line than the current one, because Sammy was not bullrushing Domi or anything, but they were together and more so or less face to face. It was a great deal more cheaper- 10 fold- Because it looked to be out of nowhere. At least Tootoo has a legit excuse of self defense. What exactly did Samuelson do to Domi at that moment to bring that punch on? Seriously, I see it as cheaper than Tootoo's punch, but not a true suckerpunch.

2) Not at all. This was my opinion from the getgo and that article was from a few days later. Just presenting what some experts had to say on what a sucker punch means in hockey terms.

And if I can't keep up, don't attempt to, lol. You deal with people who disagree with you as well as I do..Congrats. Both of us asshats in that regard.

3) Yes, slashes, etc happen nightly. Using a hockey stick as a weapon perhaps happens a few times a year in NHL hockey and rarely to the degree in which we saw w/ Simon. Just like the kind of Punch tootoo released was very harsh, but it does happen quite a bit. In fact, it happened just the other game when Avery went to punch someone witha glove, but he missed. It also happened when Brashy knocked out Witt- Oh, when did that happen, two weeks ago?

4) Laughable statement by you. This is where you lose your credibility.

I don't know how many times I have to explain this. But how exactly is Tootoo going to square off when someone is rushing at him w/ good speed? There is not the time. But the time his gloves would be off, he would be laying on the ice. If anything, it is the opposite. Robidas never gave Tootoo the option to fight by rushing at him w/ no intent to stop. If Robidas wanted to fight, he would have dropped them and squared off.

THE ONUS WAS ON ROBIDAS TO START THE FIGHT BECAUSE TOOTOO DID NOTHING WRONG TO BEGIN WITH. The check was clean. he did nothing wrong on that front.

1) Probably the reason Domi was given more games. Only thing is Domi told Samuelson he was going to do it, as well as Neely (who he was doing it for).

2) I'm saying it's a heavily debatable term, like I did many pages ago.

3) Brashier punching Witt who continue to dive on the ground is your comparison? Koivu stuck Tucker last game in the nose. If anything, Tucker was opened up more than Hollweg. This just illustrates my point further than Tootoo (along with Simon) went WAY outside the boundaries needed to protect themselves.

4) I'll just let the Video talk for itself. Keep an eye on Neil. This is how it is supposed to be done.

What was he supposed to do? That! The same thing everyone else does in the league. Brace yourself for a hit. Tootoo is the same guy who kicked the hell out of Regehr a few days ago after he was jumped by him. Tootoo has dealt with far worse, and far more threatening situations than Stephan Robidas having a 3 foot charge at him.

[DarkStar50 679]

It doesn't matter if you started playing this game at 4 or 40, if you are playing in the NHL don't expect a little confrontation to get no worse than a face wash with a mitt. If you come hell bent for election in the pros, either bring a bad attitude from the start or be prepared for the worst. Robi wasn't. The guys with the reputation for trouble are ones you have be aware of when they are on the ice. Too many players aren't paying attention to these guys who hit with a purpose to hurt. The tough guys don't check numbers at the start.

[rinkrat94 1]

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4) I'll just let the Video talk for itself. Keep an eye on Neil. This is how it is supposed to be done.

What was he supposed to do? That! The same thing everyone else does in the league. Brace yourself for a hit. Tootoo is the same guy who kicked the hell out of Regehr a few days ago after he was jumped by him. Tootoo has dealt with far worse, and far more threatening situations than Stephan Robidas having a 3 foot charge at him.

Exactly. For all of you who defended Tootoo and asked what he should do, just watch the video. That is the type of play that happens all the time in the NHL and this is how players (that are not dirty cowards) react.

[TheSnake22 0]

i think the biggest question that needs to be asked is why people feel the need to start fights after a hard, clean hit. Tootoo is in the wrong, but so is Robidas, as well as Modano for that matter, it is astounding he got off clean. On one hand you appreciate a teammate sticking up for you, but on the other, you look like a pansy if every time you get hit someone comes flying in to defend you like a someone just hit on his girlfriend while you went to the bathroom.

[Chadd 916]

i think the biggest question that needs to be asked is why people feel the need to start fights after a hard, clean hit. Tootoo is in the wrong, but so is Robidas, as well as Modano for that matter, it is astounding he got off clean. On one hand you appreciate a teammate sticking up for you, but on the other, you look like a pansy if every time you get hit someone comes flying in to defend you like a someone just hit on his girlfriend while you went to the bathroom.

You look like a pansy when you EXPECT someone to come in every time you get hit.

[TheSnake22 0]

I don't think it's a stretch to say there are some players that expect just that.