PETA, sic balls!

[mack 44]

[Chadd 916]

One minor point Smoke:

He has not yet been indicted by the state of Virginia, that may happen later. The current legal problems are federal charges, usually a more serious problem.

[mack 44]

The state's the least of his worries though. Even if they don't indict for some reason, the Feds still will be and that'll be like hearing "Congratulations, you don't have cancer but you have AIDS." It can't be good news when the judge has a nickname of "Rocket Docket" either.

[Allsmokenopancake 0]

One minor point Smoke:

He has not yet been indicted by the state of Virginia, that may happen later. The current legal problems are federal charges, usually a more serious problem.

VA state has said they are not seeking an indictment at the minute, but reserve the right to do so pending the outcome of the federal case.

I was just pointing out that in VA, if you own the house, you are responsible legally, but yeah, definately more serious, particularly when they have a 99% conviction rate.

Not sure what the coverage is locally round the country, obviously there is lots of media attention, but because of the proximity, and sportstalk 980 here being the VA tech football broadcast channel, its the national coverage, plus the local stuff all rolled into one

[Lufria 1]

Has a trial date been set yet for this? it'l be interesting to see what happens when he enters the field and the coverage he gets for the dogfighting.

[mack 44]

I don't think he'll be taking any field this year, regardless of when the trial starts. It'd be his best interest to just take that rumoured leave of absence from the team.

[Spreedizzle 1]

To quote one of my fave movies:

"Dan Marino (insert Vick here) should die of ghonorrea and rot in hell".....Ace Ventura.

I'd love to find Vick in my backyard trying to get a hold of my Boxer....so I then have a legal excuse to send a small piece of metal out of the barrel of my Springfield XD .45ACP right into his knee cap. Flippin bastard should get a jail cell right next to the other thugs in his family....namely his brother Marcus.

[M-Cohen 0]

To be honest, I think this is the end of his career. And it's pathetic, he was gifted with these athletic talents but throws it all down the drain for dog fighting? Ridiculous.

What I don't understand is how one gets started doing something like that? And why..

[kovalchuk71 212]

Anyone on here hear on ESPN that Chad Johnson might have been part of this?

[Chadd 916]

The indictment says the fights offered purses as high as $26,000 and that Vick once paid $23,000 to the owner of two pit bulls that had beaten Bad Newz Kennels dogs.

That owner is one of four cooperating witnesses cited in the document.

Ok, he's going down. They can tie him directly to the fights with this guy. This is the first time I've seen anything in print that shows any kind of direct evidence against him and a business transaction like that is really damning.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2950226

[Smitty34 0]

Its interesting how Mike was supposed to be the role model, the opposite of his brother. Looks like they're two of a kind. Its a damn shame considering his talent.

[mack 44]

He was a role model? When?

[Allsmokenopancake 0]

The indictment says the fights offered purses as high as $26,000 and that Vick once paid $23,000 to the owner of two pit bulls that had beaten Bad Newz Kennels dogs.

That owner is one of four cooperating witnesses cited in the document.

Ok, he's going down. They can tie him directly to the fights with this guy. This is the first time I've seen anything in print that shows any kind of direct evidence against him and a business transaction like that is really damning.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2950226

I read the full 18 page indictment. Following the timelines, you can see where he was taking the time to play football, but as soon as the season was over, his name was back as one of the organizers.

Co-operating witness #1 is in North Carolina, and Vick bought 4 pit bulls from him, and also fought or "tested" as the indictment says, some of his dogs against Vicks. (pages 5&6 of indictment)

CW #2 saw Vick represent Bad Newz Kennels in 2 seperate fights, and also arranged a future fight with vick, worth $26,000 that took place in March 03. (page 12)

CW#3 had a dog fight vicks in fall 2003, and was criticized for shouting Vicks name at the event (page 15)

CW#4 also had a dog fight vicks dog, Vick and co's dog lost, and vick personally paid CW#4 from a side bet they had on the fight (Page 16)

Page 17 talks about how they had people come from North Carolina, Maryland, Texas and New York to fight in VA, crossing state lines to both purchase and fight dogs, which is why its a federal case.

April 2007, Peace, Phillips and Vick executed 8 dogs that were not performing well, by hanging, drowning and slamming one dog against the ground until it was dead.

Vick was also consulted by Peace about one of the dogs, afterwhich Peace hosed the dog down with water and electrocuted it.

Full indictment http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years...17072vick1.html

I hope he gets the max for each offense, and they are not served concurrently

[Lufria 1]

The indictment says the fights offered purses as high as $26,000 and that Vick once paid $23,000 to the owner of two pit bulls that had beaten Bad Newz Kennels dogs.

That owner is one of four cooperating witnesses cited in the document.

Ok, he's going down. They can tie him directly to the fights with this guy. This is the first time I've seen anything in print that shows any kind of direct evidence against him and a business transaction like that is really damning.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2950226

I read the full 18 page indictment. Following the timelines, you can see where he was taking the time to play football, but as soon as the season was over, his name was back as one of the organizers.

Co-operating witness #1 is in North Carolina, and Vick bought 4 pit bulls from him, and also fought or "tested" as the indictment says, some of his dogs against Vicks. (pages 5&6 of indictment)

CW #2 saw Vick represent Bad Newz Kennels in 2 seperate fights, and also arranged a future fight with vick, worth $26,000 that took place in March 03. (page 12)

CW#3 had a dog fight vicks in fall 2003, and was criticized for shouting Vicks name at the event (page 15)

CW#4 also had a dog fight vicks dog, Vick and co's dog lost, and vick personally paid CW#4 from a side bet they had on the fight (Page 16)

Page 17 talks about how they had people come from North Carolina, Maryland, Texas and New York to fight in VA, crossing state lines to both purchase and fight dogs, which is why its a federal case.

April 2007, Peace, Phillips and Vick executed 8 dogs that were not performing well, by hanging, drowning and slamming one dog against the ground until it was dead.

Vick was also consulted by Peace about one of the dogs, afterwhich Peace hosed the dog down with water and electrocuted it.

Full indictment http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years...17072vick1.html

I hope he gets the max for each offense, and they are not served concurrently

wow, that's a ton. I can't see how he's gonna get out of this one.

Wonder what charges they might add?

[Allsmokenopancake 0]

wow, that's a ton. I can't see how he's gonna get out of this one.

Wonder what charges they might add?

Well, the feds said they are going to introduce a superceding incictment in september.

The current indictment has only conspiricy charges for Vick, if they introduce a superceding indictment he will likely get charged with more serious crimes.

The fact that they are talking about a superceding indictment indicates that he is getting nailed on the current one, and with time, they will have an even stronger case.

He will either need to cut a deal before the other indictment comes down, that would exclude another indictment, and likely have him testify against others, or fight it the whole way.

It looks like he is choosing to fight it, becuase a plea deal is still a guilty call, which if he enters one, should signal the end of his NFL career, although at this stage, I think he is done anyway

[D-MaN88 0]

I thought I had heard somewhere that they weren't going to offer him a plea deal? In no way am I saying I know this for a fact but I thought I overheard on a news cast or sports radio show saying the feds weren't going to offer him a plea deal?

[RadioGaGa 162]

An interesting point made on a Sports talk show yesterday.

You hear all these stories of NFL & NBA players (mostly) who beat the hell out of their wives/girlfriends....at the end of the day...they pay a fine and never miss a day of practice...

Now, I'm not condoning animal cruelty at all...but why is the abuse of an animal worse than the abuse of a person?

It's like abortion protesters who blow up clinics and shoot Dr's...."Don't Kill Babies...But Grown Ups Can Die!"

Where's PETE (People for the Ethical Treatment of Everything) when you need them?

[Allsmokenopancake 0]

I thought I had heard somewhere that they weren't going to offer him a plea deal? In no way am I saying I know this for a fact but I thought I overheard on a news cast or sports radio show saying the feds weren't going to offer him a plea deal?

I think if he can cast the net wider, and get the bigger fish, they will offer a plea.

However, I don't think they are interested in a plea to reduce sentence for him.

The public opinion is that this is a despicible act, and he should be punished. They seemingly have a strong case on this indictment to the point that they are going to file another indictment with more serious charges.

This will possibly be a case that will force states to increase the penalties for this type of crime, along with showing those that take part in it, even the superstar athletes, that no one is above the law.

I think the only plea they will accept is if he starts singing like a songbird on anyone and everyone involved, and it may even be too late for that, since there are already 4 co-operating witnesses who are likely getting a good deal for their testimony.

[Allsmokenopancake 0]

An interesting point made on a Sports talk show yesterday.

You hear all these stories of NFL & NBA players (mostly) who beat the hell out of their wives/girlfriends....at the end of the day...they pay a fine and never miss a day of practice...

Now, I'm not condoning animal cruelty at all...but why is the abuse of an animal worse than the abuse of a person?

It's like abortion protesters who blow up clinics and shoot Dr's...."Don't Kill Babies...But Grown Ups Can Die!"

Where's PETE (People for the Ethical Treatment of Everything) when you need them?

Free Will. Wives and girlfriends have the network of resources to get help, file a report with the police, and leave their signifigant other.

Wives and girlfriends are also not forced to fight each other to the death.

The dogs cannot choose to leave, cannot choose to fight, and there is no network established for them to leave their owners, unless they are caught.

When a wife is beaten, she can choose to press charges, dogs can't, and they also can't testify as to the nature of their abuse.

Backhanding a woman, or punching her is a terrible terrible thing to do, and I think the punishment should be severe for that also, but when you train an animal, to rip the throat from another, for your pleasure, then repeatedly do it, for sport, it is much much different to a momentary flare up of emotions, which is usually the case in spousal abuse

[sabre09923 0]

Playing devil's advocate here...

If dogfighting is a federal offense, for the mistreatment and eventual end result of killing innocent animals, why isn't hunting for sport (not for food, that's perfectly natural) outlawed as well? Again, not to support dogfighting, but both injure/kill innocent animals for nothing more than an adrenaline rush, so why aren't they deemed equal?

I don't really believe that point above, I'm just interested what you guys have to say.

[Allsmokenopancake 0]

Playing devil's advocate here...

If dogfighting is a federal offense, for the mistreatment and eventual end result of killing innocent animals, why isn't hunting for sport (not for food, that's perfectly natural) outlawed as well? Again, not to support dogfighting, but both injure/kill innocent animals for nothing more than an adrenaline rush, so why aren't they deemed equal?

I don't really believe that point above, I'm just interested what you guys have to say.

I think it's the nature of intent with dogfighting. I don't agree with hunting for sport, but don't have a problem with hunting for food or byproducts.

With hunting, your singular goal is to go out, find a target, kill it, and you are done.

With dogfighting, you are taking animals, and are training them to inflict as much pain as possible on another animal. A Single dogfight can last several hours. You are forcing the dogs mouth open, you are mounting females to a rape stand, you are beating the losing dogs.

It breeds a culture of contempt for life in general. It's not point-shoot-kill.

It's, buy puppy-train-chain down to a car rim buried in the ground-put on tread mill-beat, starve provoke violence as a nature inthe dog-release against other dog-if it doesn't win and lives, you beat, shoot, hang, electrocute.

It's a completely different kettle of fish

[D-MaN88 0]

I also don't agree about hunting for a sport. But hunting does serve a purpose as it controls the populations of deer and the such. At the same time I hope the DA's in this case for the Feds take the plea and tear it in a million pieces and piss on it. Michael Vick should be locked up for the maximum and I can't wait for the day they show the cops transporting him to jail.

It would even be a greater sight to see if he was chained to his brother Marcus and they were both being transported together. Both of these guys need to be locked up as they are a criminal element to anything and everything in society.

[Smitty34 0]

He was a role model? When?

Read my post carefully. I never said he was, I said he was supposed to be. It has been said since he got to the NFL that he was supposed to be the face of the NFL and a good example, but he never turned out that way.

[Cheesehead 0]

I also don't agree about hunting for a sport. But hunting does serve a purpose as it controls the populations of deer and the such. At the same time I hope the DA's in this case for the Feds take the plea and tear it in a million pieces and piss on it. Michael Vick should be locked up for the maximum and I can't wait for the day they show the cops transporting him to jail.

It would even be a greater sight to see if he was chained to his brother Marcus and they were both being transported together. Both of these guys need to be locked up as they are a criminal element to anything and everything in society.

Maybe they will have a family reunion with Michael, Marcus, and their Cousin.

[halfmoonyote 0]

I was just UNfortunate enough to see a photo of one of the dogs confiscated from Vicks property. Out of respect for this board, I refuse to post it, as it is heartbreaking for anyone with even an ounce of compassion. Suffice it to say, it's every bit as gruesome as you could imagine. The worst part is, the dog in the photo was still alive, and living with grotesque injuries. I'm guessing he was euthanized.

I have volunteered my time for the better part of 10 years with the ASPCA and local Humane Leagues. You guys wouldn't believe half of the shit I've seen, and it continues to boggle my mind how anyone could treat an animal, bread for domestic purposes, in this cruel and unusual way. It's unthinkable.

Vick is guilty. For anyone that thinks otherwise, you're only fooling yourself, and/or you're just not a very smart person. The government has more than enough evidence to make Vick go away, and it's about to get worse with the forthcoming superceding indictment. His 'friends' are about to roll on him to save their own asses.

You know, I've never been a big PETA supporter, and all of their over-the-top antics, but in this case, I would fully support and advocate their most extreme retaliation towards Michael Vick and any member of his family.

I'd like to add that deep down, I fully expect Vick to walk because their will be one idiot on the jury that thinks professional sports are somehow real, and consider Michael Vick a hero for what he's done on a football field. It's sad, but this society is full of losers like that.