PETA, sic balls!

[aliebe 0]

Vick has signed a two year deal with the Eagles.

This whole thing just disgusts me. I'm conservative through and through. Honestly, why should I care about those who cry that he served his time and deserves a second chance? I've done no wrong in my life, but because I can't throw a football, I have to fight daily to get by financially? Stallworth kills a man yet he loses only a year of his salary? When will the public wake up and realize that these thugs (black, white, purple, asian and any other groups I left out that commit felonies but believe they are above the law) don't deserve special treatment?

I can only pray that the philly fans revolt to this signing.

[EBondo 233]

I like the signing. I believe in second chances. I'm not an animal hater by any means, I love my dog and two cats we own to death. I believe that with Michael Vick, it's like this. He messed up, he knows he messed up. EVERYONE knows he messed up. He did hard time for his crime, and accepted it like a man once it caught up to him. I believe he will or has become a changed man after the incidents of the last two and a half years. And if he can help the Eagles in any way shape or form, even better.

[halfmoonyote 0]

I like the signing. I believe in second chances. I'm not an animal hater by any means, I love my dog and two cats we own to death. I believe that with Michael Vick, it's like this. He messed up, he knows he messed up. EVERYONE knows he messed up. He did hard time for his crime, and accepted it like a man once it caught up to him. I believe he will or has become a changed man after the incidents of the last two and a half years. And if he can help the Eagles in any way shape or form, even better.

Vick's crime was a conscious, deliberate, reasoned, consistent, systematic, sadistic enterprise. This isn't a guy that just 'made a mistake', this is a guy that ran a business for amusement on torturing animals, some of which were stolen pets, so please, spare me the 'he messed up' and is a 'changed man' rhetoric.

The Eagles are an even bigger joke now...and that's really saying something. McNabb really needs to lay off the martyr act too, he's embarrassing himself.

[eric42434224 1]

What does his employment opportunities have to do with anything after he served his 2 yr jail sentence for his crime? He committed a crime and paid for it. He spent 2 years of his life away from his family, and lost alot of money, credibility, and ability in that time. And deservedly so.

He has every right to try to earn as much making a living as anyone else. The NFL is a business just like any other, and has the right not to hire him. He has no right to work, but he does have the right to work if someone hires him.

Would anyone be complaining if he got a job flipping burgers? No....we only hear from the people green with envy and jealousy because he got a job making money than they ever will.

He paid his debt to society. In full. Let it go and stop crying.

[halfmoonyote 0]

What does his employment opportunities have to do with anything after he served his 2 yr jail sentence for his crime? He committed a crime and paid for it. He spent 2 years away from his family, and lost alot of money, credibility, and ability in that time.

He has every right to try to earn as much making a living as anyone else. The NFL is a business just like any other, and has the right not to hire him. He has no right to work, but he does have the right to work if someone hires him.

Would anyone be complaining if he got a job flipping burgers? No....we only hear from the people green with envy and jealousy because he got a job making money they never will.

He paid his debt to society. In full.

LMFAO - being an admitted drug user, your posts lack any credibility.

But just to play along, you'd say the same if he was raping kids? I mean, hey, he paid his debt to society, let him make millions again.

Eric, I try to stay away from your posts, because you are an idiot, but this one is pretty laughable. Be careful not to fall on your sword.

[NuggyBuggy 0]

I think anyone who eats meat or uses animal products without verifying that the animals are ethically raised or slaughtered has no real complaint here.

I am neither a vegetarian nor a Vick apologist, but the conditions that much livestock is raised in is deplorable, and they are slaughtered in a fashion just as bad - or dare I say worse - than Vick and his associates slaughtered their victims. Electrocution is a common method to kill pigs and cattle, among others. Sometimes the pigs are still alive when they are dumped in boiling water to soften their skin and remove their hair. Animals are castrated without anesthesia. Male chicks born in egg farms are usually just dumped in garbage cans or pits to die or suffocate, because it would take too long and cost too much money to euthanize them. Poultry often get their beaks cut off (obviously, without anesthesia and greatly stressing them and causing pain), because the conditions they live in will often lead them to cannibalize each other.

Even the label "free-range" is often a joke, where the farms are vast industrial operations which afford an almost insignificant amount of "range". Farmers don't really want their genetically modified (and infection susceptible) chickens ranging freely.

All these things are undertaken for OUR own pleasure, because we like the taste of meat or eggs, or like leather in our shoes, jackets, gloves, or skates.

Let's also not forget that many people out there enjoy the act of fishing and hunting, acts all ultimately designed to take the animal's life (maybe with the exception of catch-and-release fishing). Talk to a hunter about the thrill he feels after he shoots a deer but fails to make a clean kill, and then tracks through the woods following the trail of blood, shit and piss. The hunter derives the pleasure from the very act of killing the animal; is he any better than a dog-fighter ?

Again, I am neither a vegetarian, animal rights activist, or Vick apologist. I eat meat. I wear leather. I think PETA are a bunch of idiots and hypocrites. But consumption of animal products leads to treatment of animals that is often just as bad as what Vick did.

[eric42434224 1]

What does his employment opportunities have to do with anything after he served his 2 yr jail sentence for his crime? He committed a crime and paid for it. He spent 2 years away from his family, and lost alot of money, credibility, and ability in that time.

He has every right to try to earn as much making a living as anyone else. The NFL is a business just like any other, and has the right not to hire him. He has no right to work, but he does have the right to work if someone hires him.

Would anyone be complaining if he got a job flipping burgers? No....we only hear from the people green with envy and jealousy because he got a job making money they never will.

He paid his debt to society. In full.

LMFAO - being an admitted drug user, your posts lack any credibility.

But just to play along, you'd say the same if he was raping kids? I mean, hey, he paid his debt to society, let him make millions again.

Eric, I try to stay away from your posts, because you are an idiot, but this one is pretty laughable. Be careful not to fall on your sword.

Im not going to take your bait and get in an arguement with you.

My post has credibility because it is an intelligent and articulate post, illustrating a view shared by many.

A post that includes insults may not have much credibility, but I wont say that about you one way or the other.

I personally am of the view that we should live by the rules our society has put in place. You obviously agree with that by your drug and rape comments in that you disapprove of them. But I also agree with society and their laws, especially in this case. He committed a crime. A horrible crime. And society has deemed it to be punishable by two years in prison. He served it, and has been released. There is no provision in his sentence that prevents him from gaining the best possible employment he can to support his family. I agree with this.

You have let your morality affect your view. I have not.

That is absolutely your right, and I respect that. I do not agree and was stating my opinion. There is no need to make disparaging comments, take things personal, or insult people.

[halfmoonyote 0]

Nuggy - couldn't agree more.

My opinions are a direct connection with my lifestyle choices and personal ethics.

However, having said that, people have a right to be outraged regardless if they eat meat or not. It was a heinous crime.

Im not going to take your bait and get in an arguement with you. Your post only shows that you cant have a rational discussion and can only post insults.

My post has credibility because it is an intelligent and articulate post, illustrating a view shared by many.

I'm still waiting for the part where you have either said anything rational or intelligent. 'Stop crying'? Yeah, that's pretty rational.

[eric42434224 1]

If you couldnt see the rational point of my post, then I dont know how much further our discussion can go. I can try again, but anything after that cant lead in a positive direction. I have made a comittment to the mods about my behavior and intend to live up to it.

In summary:

I feel that society has laws, and that those laws must be adhered to to have a functioning society. Some may not agree with these laws, but there are avenues for legislation to be changed. It has been done in the past, and will be done in the future.

But as it stands now, the punishment Vick recieved for his crime was 2 years. It doesnt matter what crime....that was his sentence. He committed the crime, he was sentenced, and he served his punishment. I feel that he has served his debt, and now should have the right to secure the best possible employment to support his family that someone is willing to offer him.

If you feel that his punishment was not severe enough, that is your perogative. If you feel the sentence should have been longer, that is your perogative. If you feel he should never be allowed to work to support his family again, that is your perogative.

I merely pointed out that I disagree with you. Many people agree with my point of view. I dont think I can share my view in a more rational and articulate way. We can just disagree to disagree. No need to get hostile.

EDIT: I completely understand why people are outraged. I have a dog, and she is nothing short of a full fledged family member. I thought it was a horrible crime. I just think that he served his punishment, and should be allowed to make amends, and make a living the best way possible.

I am of the opinion that if he was only able to secure a job flipping burgers or digging ditches for minimum wage, that many would have a sense of satisfaction and justice. It is only the amount of money that they have a problem with, and that to me sounds like envy. Either you think he should be able to work or not. If you do think he should be able to work, what justification or rationalization can people have to judge what job he can get, or what he can be paid?

[eric42434224 1]

.......................

[Ahriman 1]

What does his employment opportunities have to do with anything after he served his 2 yr jail sentence for his crime? He committed a crime and paid for it. He spent 2 years of his life away from his family, and lost alot of money, credibility, and ability in that time. And deservedly so.

He has every right to try to earn as much making a living as anyone else. The NFL is a business just like any other, and has the right not to hire him. He has no right to work, but he does have the right to work if someone hires him.

Would anyone be complaining if he got a job flipping burgers? No....we only hear from the people green with envy and jealousy because he got a job making money than they ever will.

He paid his debt to society. In full. Let it go and stop crying.

He's a felon. Any other felon would be HAPPY to have a legitimate job flipping burgers; in the real world the rest of us live in, felons have limited job opportunities, thats kinda the big difference between a felony charge and a misdemeanor. It is the line where American society has decided "this is a different level of severity, and it will follow you around." I myself an not envious of playing football professionally, nor am I envious of making millions of dollars; nor do I hate Vick for making more money than anyone would pay me to do my job. I am however angry that a high profile organization would choose to offer a person convicted of his crimes, millions of dollars. I think it is a poor showing on the NFL whom fined Joe Horn $30,000 for a cell phone call touchdown celebration but is allowing a high profile animal abuser to reenter the league. If they were intending on "cleaning up the behavior" as they said they were, they should have kept Vick out.

I am neither a vegetarian nor a Vick apologist, but the conditions that much livestock is raised in is deplorable, and they are slaughtered in a fashion just as bad - or dare I say worse

So you're comfortable condemning Vick, hunters, and the ranching industry. But you are not in support of actually banning, changing or not participating in any of these practices?

But consumption of animal products leads to treatment of animals that is often just as bad as what Vick did

No, no it isn't. At all. Saying that you clearly have not thought it all the way through.

Say what you want about ranchers but if you're not a vegan you are a participant in the slaughter, after all, they wouldn't be doing it at such a large scale as economically efficient as they could, if there wasnt such a large demand for meat, which of course, you are demanding with your purchase. You have just put yourself on the same level with Michael Vick. Did you mean to do that? Want to eat chicken without being party to all that? Raise your own chickens, but to do that, you might have to (forgive my wording) break a few eggs.

However the hunters and fishermen you describe so lovingly as sadists.... not so much. A hunter cleans, treats and eats the kill. In many regions of the world, its the only way to get some balance of nutrition as well, in other regions (like in the united states), if hunters didn't go kill deer, the state or federal government would have to go out and slaughter hundreds of thousands if not millions of deer every year in order to keep them from overpopulating and decimating forests. So either a hunter can go out, pay the state money, for the ability to kill a deer which is then processed either personally or commercially (creating jobs btw), and then using it to provide nutrition for themselves. They may enjoy the act of hunting, (you know that basic instinct of providing for one's self and others) but it's that or thousands of rotting corpses of indiscriminately killed animals paid by tax payer money. The fisherman who catches a fish, cleans it and eats it is also at least participating less so in the demand for cruely treated animal products than you are. It is not the same as a dog being mentally and physically abused to the point of attacking and kill another while bet money exchanges hands for the "entertainment" of it. Nothing has been produced, nothing has been saved, dog fighting is a tragedy through and through.

So really it's quite clear that the deer in the forest who does not live in a cage, who is a wild animal living as it should interacting with nature, right up until it catches a bullet or arrow has had a vastly better life (because once its dead its no longer living) than any chicken or cow in any coop or ranch, regardless if it was a large industrial one, or in your backyard. And the dog who is needlessly forced to fight for his life, repeatedly, until he dies, for the entertainment of people, is a complete tragedy produced by people who have closed off or are unable to recognize cruelty.

I can only hope you'd read this far and consider changing your opinion.

[eric42434224 1]

He's a felon. Any other felon would be HAPPY to have a legitimate job flipping burgers; in the real world the rest of us live in, felons have limited job opportunities, thats kinda the big difference between a felony charge and a misdemeanor. It is the line where American society has decided "this is a different level of severity, and it will follow you around." I myself an not envious of playing football professionally, nor am I envious of making millions of dollars; nor do I hate Vick for making more money than anyone would pay me to do my job. I am however angry that a high profile organization would choose to offer a person convicted of his crimes, millions of dollars. I think it is a poor showing on the NFL whom fined Joe Horn $30,000 for a cell phone call touchdown celebration but is allowing a high profile animal abuser to reenter the league. If they were intending on "cleaning up the behavior" as they said they were, they should have kept Vick out.

I agree. He has paid his debt to society in full. He should be able to get the best job offered to him.

I disagree that the Eagles did anything bad, nor the NFL. They are a business, and have the right to hire whomever they feel they want or can. They will have to live with the consequenses if things go downhill. I feel no animosity to them at all. I am indifferent.

It is all about rights. Vicks right to get the best job he can, and the NFL and the franchises right to make decisions in what they believe to be in their best interest.

I do agree with another right. Your right to disagree with me :)

[chippa13 1844]

I see it like this. The guy is an asshole for what he did and will always be such. According to the disgustingly liberal legal system he did his short run in the clink and is now ready to be a productive member of society once again. I don't begrudge the guy's right to make a living now that he is out but I also won't be too unhappy if someone Theissman's the guy.

[eric42434224 1]

I see it like this. The guy is an asshole for what he did and will always be such. According to the disgustingly liberal legal system he did his short run in the clink and is now ready to be a productive member of society once again. I don't begrudge the guy's right to make a living now that he is out but I also won't be too unhappy if someone Theissman's the guy.

Yikes. I would never wish physical harm to him. But it would be what some might see as justice if he was a miserable failure in his comeback attempt. Especially if it was largely because of the deterioration of his ability due to the time he spent incarcerated.

[chippa13 1844]

Fuck with animals or kids and whatever happens to you is never enough in my book.

[eric42434224 1]

For me, children yes. But as much as I love my dog, I cant put animals on the same level.

EDIT: Hey...over 1000 posts. Wonder what the "over" odds were for me on the over/under hitting 1000 posts? Probably 1 in 1,000,000. :)

think I should to try to back out of this thread so I have a chance to hit 1050? LOL.

[halfmoonyote 0]

Ahriman - outstanding posts. Incredibly well thought out and a pleasure to read.

Also agree with Chippa...Mess with animals or children - in disgusting, sadistic fashion - and you deserve everything you have coming to you.

[eric42434224 1]

Also agree with Chippa...Mess with animals or children - in disgusting, sadistic fashion - and you deserve everything you have coming to you.

See halfmoonyote, we actually agree on this point. We merely disagree on what "everything you have coming to you" means.

We agree in principle, just not in measurement.

[chilaxin12 2]

I like the signing. I believe in second chances. I'm not an animal hater by any means, I love my dog and two cats we own to death. I believe that with Michael Vick, it's like this. He messed up, he knows he messed up. EVERYONE knows he messed up. He did hard time for his crime, and accepted it like a man once it caught up to him. I believe he will or has become a changed man after the incidents of the last two and a half years. And if he can help the Eagles in any way shape or form, even better.

Vick's crime was a conscious, deliberate, reasoned, consistent, systematic, sadistic enterprise. This isn't a guy that just 'made a mistake', this is a guy that ran a business for amusement on torturing animals, some of which were stolen pets, so please, spare me the 'he messed up' and is a 'changed man' rhetoric.

The Eagles are an even bigger joke now...and that's really saying something. McNabb really needs to lay off the martyr act too, he's embarrassing himself.

Halfmoon~While I don't agree with dog fighting, I instantly become intrigued by how incredibly bias the half assed argument that you put forward is. And while dog fighting is wrong your saying that the Eagles are a joke and that people can't change is just a load of bullshit. Dog fighting isn't new it has been around as long as dogs have been domesticated and it even used to be legal in this country. Michael Vick went to PRISON, a place where you have probably never been, or would probably kill your self before you ever were forced to go into. Vick was a young man with more money than he knew what to do with, who grew up with Southern influence where dog fighting is prominent, and not that it excuses the action, the man served his time, in a federal prison which you I'm sure willingly pay taxes towards to help rehabilitate individuals who have committed crimes so that they can once again become responsible members of society. Michael Vick wasn't the only one who was doing this, he wasn't even in charge of the ring he was the bankroll and the highest profile name that is why he went down for the crime. Your opinion is so horribly biased and it truly is a shame, because I'm sure there are plenty of skeletons in your closet that fortunately for you have not been uncovered yet, and had they, I'm sure you'd be wishing like hell to have done things differently. The man lost millions of dollars, 2 years of his life, and even though the Eagles signed him who knows how diminished his football skills are. Let all of your so called friends pin you as the head man of anything that puts you in prison for two years and see how badly your begging for things to be different or how quickly you change your attitude.

And calling out another member as an admitted drug user, saying that you can't take any of his posts seriously, just leave the board, your argument is so weak that you have to bring in something that is of 0 importance to what we are talking about. The rest of us who understand the judicial system, which is the backbone to this country, will see that a man paid his debt to society, and will pay it every morning he wakes up knowing that he lost 2 years of his life, countless dollars, and about a 1/6th of his career. He lost more than I'm sure your going to in your professional career just be grateful that people haven't decided to kick up your skeletons.

[halfmoonyote 0]

Halfmoon~While I don't agree with dog fighting, I instantly become intrigued by how incredibly bias the half assed argument that you put forward is. And while dog fighting is wrong your saying that the Eagles are a joke and that people can't change is just a load of bullshit. Dog fighting isn't new it has been around as long as dogs have been domesticated and it even used to be legal in this country. Michael Vick went to PRISON, a place where you have probably never been, or would probably kill your self before you ever were forced to go into. Vick was a young man with more money than he knew what to do with, who grew up with Southern influence where dog fighting is prominent, and not that it excuses the action, the man served his time, in a federal prison which you I'm sure willingly pay taxes towards to help rehabilitate individuals who have committed crimes so that they can once again become responsible members of society. Michael Vick wasn't the only one who was doing this, he wasn't even in charge of the ring he was the bankroll and the highest profile name that is why he went down for the crime. Your opinion is so horribly biased and it truly is a shame, because I'm sure there are plenty of skeletons in your closet that fortunately for you have not been uncovered yet, and had they, I'm sure you'd be wishing like hell to have done things differently. The man lost millions of dollars, 2 years of his life, and even though the Eagles signed him who knows how diminished his football skills are. Let all of your so called friends pin you as the head man of anything that puts you in prison for two years and see how badly your begging for things to be different or how quickly you change your attitude.

And calling out another member as an admitted drug user, saying that you can't take any of his posts seriously, just leave the board, your argument is so weak that you have to bring in something that is of 0 importance to what we are talking about. The rest of us who understand the judicial system, which is the backbone to this country, will see that a man paid his debt to society, and will pay it every morning he wakes up knowing that he lost 2 years of his life, countless dollars, and about a 1/6th of his career. He lost more than I'm sure your going to in your professional career just be grateful that people haven't decided to kick up your skeletons.

I live my life on this earth preparing for the next life. You won't find any 'skeletons' in my closet.

I am intriqued by your arrogance, though. And Americans wonder why the world hates Americans. It's because Americans know everything about everyone without having met them. Good job.

It's tough for me to fein any type of emotion of your thoughts, because I am having a hard time making sense of your babble.

[eric42434224 1]

I am intriqued by your arrogance, though. And Americans wonder why the world hates Americans. It\'s because Americans know everything about everyone without having met them. Good job.

Now isnt that exactly what you did to me in the pervious post of yours below?

LMFAO - being an admitted drug user, your posts lack any credibility.

Eric, I try to stay away from your posts, because you are an idiot, but this one is pretty laughable.

[halfmoonyote 0]

Not exactly. I formed my opinion of you based on your entire body of work here. Often times you come off so ignorant, all I can do is laugh at your posts. They really are hysterical.

But, I let myself get drawn into this, so I only have myself to blame....

'Never respond to a fool's follies, as you will only appear more foolish'

[Drewhunz 3]

EDIT: Hey...over 1000 posts. Wonder what the "over" odds were for me on the over/under hitting 1000 posts? Probably 1 in 1,000,000. :)

think I should to try to back out of this thread so I have a chance to hit 1050? LOL.

I wouldn't bet they are even that good.

[eric42434224 1]

EDIT: Hey...over 1000 posts. Wonder what the "over" odds were for me on the over/under hitting 1000 posts? Probably 1 in 1,000,000. :)

think I should to try to back out of this thread so I have a chance to hit 1050? LOL.

I wouldn't bet they are even that good.

Awww, cmon. Im not doing anything wrong here, am I?

I didnt call anyone names and didnt start any arguements, and in fact tried to just agree to disagree.

[chippa13 1844]

Halfmoon~While I don't agree with dog fighting, I instantly become intrigued by how incredibly bias the half assed argument that you put forward is. And while dog fighting is wrong your saying that the Eagles are a joke and that people can't change is just a load of bullshit. Dog fighting isn't new it has been around as long as dogs have been domesticated and it even used to be legal in this country. Michael Vick went to PRISON, a place where you have probably never been, or would probably kill your self before you ever were forced to go into. Vick was a young man with more money than he knew what to do with, who grew up with Southern influence where dog fighting is prominent, and not that it excuses the action, the man served his time, in a federal prison which you I'm sure willingly pay taxes towards to help rehabilitate individuals who have committed crimes so that they can once again become responsible members of society. Michael Vick wasn't the only one who was doing this, he wasn't even in charge of the ring he was the bankroll and the highest profile name that is why he went down for the crime. Your opinion is so horribly biased and it truly is a shame, because I'm sure there are plenty of skeletons in your closet that fortunately for you have not been uncovered yet, and had they, I'm sure you'd be wishing like hell to have done things differently. The man lost millions of dollars, 2 years of his life, and even though the Eagles signed him who knows how diminished his football skills are. Let all of your so called friends pin you as the head man of anything that puts you in prison for two years and see how badly your begging for things to be different or how quickly you change your attitude.

There are skeletons and there are skeletons. Are we really equating Vick's part in extreme cruelty to animals to the few times in college when I swiped a sub out of the local 7/11?

For the record, my taxes don't pay to rehabilitate but to incarcerate. Prison doesn't rehabilitate anyone.