Possible bad sharpening: help needed.

[Law Goalie 147]

I took my skates in to my usual shop today, in a bit of a rush. I noticed that the sharpening was being done by a guy who didn't normally use the machine, but I didn't think much of it - pretty reputable spot. I saw him check the edges, and I figured everything was fine.

When I got the skates back, I headed out the door. A couple of minutes later, I happened to touch the blades, and immediately noticed they were hot - too hot to hold. I immediately checked the blades. I couldn't find any discolouration along the blade, but I did notice somthing kind of disturbing: a bunch of what I can only describe as 'filings' on one edge. They were little strands of steel, still stuck to the blade near the heel. I haven't had them on the ice yet, but I'm a little concerned.

I hhonestly don't know whether these strands are a normal byproduct of sharpening that the guy just neglected to clean off because I was in a hurry, or whether he botched the job. I simply don't know how to check the blade without skating on it.

Any advice?

[cougarscaptain87 13]

what kind of steel is it? if it is a carbon steel, then i would say that he did not stone the blade well enough to get rid of any burrs and excess and i would assume he did not wipe the blade down with a cloth after the sharpening was finished, in the last 2 years that i have been sharpening skates i have only seen that in a carbon blade, if it is a high quality stainless steel blade and he did that i would say he was using a very high amount of pressure which caused the excessive heat, and the extra shards that you are describing.

[Law Goalie 147]

It's stainless RBK steel, from the R30 Thrust goalie blades. Best steel you can get in a goalie skate, according to most (and chiefly our own jimmy). I'm assuming, then, that he used way too much pressure and has quite probably damaged the blades permanently in addition to ruining them for my next ice.

Is there any test I can do to confirm that the blades were overheated? I really don't want to make a scene unless the blades are truly hosed.

[JR Boucicaut 3810]

He overheated the steel. The steel "filings" are a tell-tale sign of overheating.

[Law Goalie 147]

So how bad is this?

Is this is a one-time bad sharpening that I can go back and have corrected?

Or has he screwed my steel up for good?

[JR Boucicaut 3810]

Tempering the steel is a factor in premature breakage. Obviously, with the removable steel, it is much better than replacing your cowling.

Judging by the fact that he tempered your steel, I'm willing to bet that he probably ruined your skate's profile. Do you see a noticeable difference in the heel and toe radii of the steel?

[Law Goalie 147]

Actually, yeah. The heel is noticeably lower in radius. And now that I checked, it sure as hell doesn't feel like the 7/16ths hollow I asked for.

So you think there's a pretty good chance he's ruined the temper of the steel. Should I go and demand they replace the blades ASAP? They've only been sharpened twice, and only by this shop.

[JR Boucicaut 3810]

Remove the steel and match them up.

They should at least repair it. Most likely won't replace.

[Law Goalie 147]

Oh well. So much for the durability and long-lasting sharpenings of stainless steel, I guess. I was sort of looking forward to having my sharpenings last more than three or four skates.

I'll take it back and make them fix the profile and hollow, then just never go there again. (They were the ones who gave me the dubious info about the 709s being deeper than the G70s, too). Shame, since they're quite cheap and really close by.

I just don't get it. This is the third place that's screwed me over on sharpenings.

[Ngo_35 1]

I'm not sure if they will reprofile it for you since it was only a sharpening. I've never had it happen to me where a customs asks to redo a profile after a sharpening. Only to redo the sharpening to a deeper or shallower hollow. Has any sharpening had any experience with this and what did you do?

[JR Boucicaut 3810]

I'm not sure if they will reprofile it for you since it was only a sharpening. I've never had it happen to me where a customs asks to redo a profile after a sharpening. Only to redo the sharpening to a deeper or shallower hollow. Has any sharpening had any experience with this and what did you do?

I wouldn't know, I don't ruin skates.

That being said, I have had to fix bad sharpenings/ruined profiles from other store locations (current and past employer) and I fix them at no charge.

[jimmy 194]

Actually, yeah. The heel is noticeably lower in radius. And now that I checked, it sure as hell doesn't feel like the 7/16ths hollow I asked for.

So you think there's a pretty good chance he's ruined the temper of the steel. Should I go and demand they replace the blades ASAP? They've only been sharpened twice, and only by this shop.

Only sharpened twice, by his shop? That must mean you bought them there. I wouldn't ask him to redo them, I would ask for a replacement.

[Ngo_35 1]

I wouldn't know, I don't ruin skates.

That being said, I have had to fix bad sharpenings/ruined profiles from other store locations (current and past employer) and I fix them at no charge.

Yeah fixing mistakes for other people in our store happens now and then. I just never had a customer say "you ruined my profile with the sharpening." Anyways, I guess I would just reprofile then no big deal.

Anyways back on topic:

LawGoalie

Ask for a new pair of steel although I'm not too sure how successful you would be with that.

They'll probably just offer to redo their mistake with an experienced guy or something.

[Law Goalie 147]

Part of the reason I'm so pissed off is that the guy who did the work is damn well experienced enough not to do this. It's not like it was some trainee.

[lb33knight 0]

Part of the reason I'm so pissed off is that the guy who did the work is damn well experienced enough not to do this. It's not like it was some trainee.

No matter how long you've been sharpening skates or how much experience you have you can still make a mistake. With that being said, go tell him your concerns and see what he says before you get too fired up. I'm sure that he can be reasonable with you. Just don't go in an say "you screwed up my skates" because that will automatically put him in a defensive mode and probably piss him off.

[Law Goalie 147]

The store in general has done well by me, until recently, and I'm not intending to cause any sort of ridiculous scene. It's just that the sheer magnitude of the problems in this case are kind of staggering.

[Law Goalie 147]

Well, I'm stunned.

I went back to the shop, and managed to show the blades to their best skate guy. On my way through, I went right by the guy who had ruined the blade: no reaction whatsoever. As the competent guy looked them over, I explained what had happened with the overheating and the steel filings. His only reaction was to look up in dismay at each point. He then exclaimed, "There's a chunk missing from the toe!" which indeed there was. He asked me to wait for a minute, then disappeared into the back.

Two minutes later, I had a new pair of steel. He didn't have any of the thinner RBK 9K thrust blades in my size, but he did strip the blades off a pair of CCM Vector 6's in my size. It's the same stainless steel, just without the sides lasered off (#324-1 for the full-width, #324-2 for the shaved), so I said that was fine. He sharpened them and sent me on my way with an apology, and a suggestion to bring my blades ONLY next time. Apparently, some guys have a tendency to treat goalie blades like crap, because they assume 1) that the blades will tolerate any amount of abuse, and 2) goalies don't know anything about skates. Right... Anyhow, he suggested that if I bring just the steel, they'll treat it with a little more finesse.

To top it all off, the guy who had ruined my blades in the first place tried to charge me for the sharpening on the new pair as I left the shop.

[TBLfan 25]

glad they took care of you. Now you know who to go to for sharpening and work.

[Law Goalie 147]

Too right. I've tried not to be picky about who in particular did my skates, on the principle that anyone working in this shop *should* in theory be well trained. From now on, I'm going to be a little more discerning. I know the senior guy's days and hours - now I just need to get the others and make myself a Sharpener Schedule!

[TBLfan 25]

In my opinion, you should be picky, they're your skates. I always go to the same guy to get my skates sharpened. I don't even have to tell him what hollow, he already knows. Consistancy is good.

[Law Goalie 147]

As a final update, I guess it'd be useful to list the signs the guy gave me for telling when your stainless steel has been overheated and/or too forcibly ground.

1) During the sharpening, the sound of the sharpener isn't a series of consistent, smooth passes, but of long, heavy pressings: a deeper sound probably means more pressure.

2) The blades are unusually hot after sharpening, and stay hot for some time.

3) There are discolourations on the steel (brown or blue).

4) There is a rippling pattern on the bottom of the blade.

5) There are steel filings actually peeling off the blade (as JR said, this is a tell-tale sign).

6) When the blades are taken out of the holders and lined up next to one another, there are notable differences in the heels and toes (ie. ruined profile).

[Benchboy 0]

How is the rippling effect on the bottom of the blade caused during sharpening, what do you do to prevent it and what effect does it have when skating?

Sorry about the questions but I think that is the problem I am having.

[sabre09923 0]

In my opinion, you should be picky, they're your skates. I always go to the same guy to get my skates sharpened. I don't even have to tell him what hollow, he already knows. Consistancy is good.

My dad knows this guy who works with metal for a living (can't remember exactly what he does) and he does a great job sharpening. It's a little shallower than 1/2, but I'm not sure if it's 5/8 or 9/16... Regardless, he does a great job on my skates every time.

Finding a sharpener that you like is one of the best things you can do. End up with one less thing to worry about...

[forbs02 20]

How is the rippling effect on the bottom of the blade caused during sharpening, what do you do to prevent it and what effect does it have when skating?

Sorry about the questions but I think that is the problem I am having.

The rippling will make your blade feel like its dragging. You personally can do nothing to prevent it but your sharpener sure can. It is usually caused by a poorly dressed stone and/or rushing a pass. It will slow you down and make the edges feel all funny. After a good sharpening the hollow of the skate should look like mirror. You should also be able to run a cotton ball down the edges of the blade and not have it snag on anything. I always run a finger down the blade (after I've honed it of course!) to make sure that its smooth the length of the blade. When I do that touch I can also feel if I still have missing edges or not.

[jimmy 194]

As a final update, I guess it'd be useful to list the signs the guy gave me for telling when your stainless steel has been overheated and/or too forcibly ground.

1) During the sharpening, the sound of the sharpener isn't a series of consistent, smooth passes, but of long, heavy pressings: a deeper sound probably means more pressure.

2) The blades are unusually hot after sharpening, and stay hot for some time.

3) There are discolourations on the steel (brown or blue).

4) There is a rippling pattern on the bottom of the blade.

5) There are steel filings actually peeling off the blade (as JR said, this is a tell-tale sign).

6) When the blades are taken out of the holders and lined up next to one another, there are notable differences in the heels and toes (ie. ruined profile).

Glad you got it resolved.

All the above points are valid for regular sharpenings, but not for the initial sharpening. The sound from the machine will not be "smooth" and metal filings are OK, because a lot of stock has to be removed. Thin Metal (strings are normal)

Lastly, I don't think it's reasonable for them to ask you to remove the steel from the skates in order to get a good sharpening.