300/500/756

[Jason Harris 31]

And it still doesn't answer the question, is Bonds still on steroids? If so, how is he not testing postive, if not how did he hit that ball 440+ feet?

There was an interesting segment this month on Costas Now with Patrick Arnold, the chemist who designed the undetectable HGH (although I don't think he had formal training as a chemist.)

Basically, he met Conti over the internet and they traded notes. Conti asked him to send him the latest synthetic hormone, which Conti gave to Bonds and Sheffield. Conti continually updated Arnold on how well Bonds was doing on the Clear. When Costas asked why it was the called the Clear, Arnold said he had assumed they referred to it that way because the tests were coming up clear. He also said that Marion Jones and Tim Montgomery were experimenting with it. He said he never met Bonds, so he couldn't speak for Bonds, but he was disbelieving of both Bonds' and Sheffields' claim that they thought they were ingesting flaxseed oil. He also left no doubt that Conti knew it was an undetectable, synthetic hormone, and that the only reason anyone was caught was an anonymous coach sent in a used syringe to the Anti-Doping organization or the Olympics, I can't remember which.

Two interesting sidenotes. I believe he spent time in jail. And he said he was rooting for Bonds.

He left no doubt that Bonds was on steroids, but it doesn't address the question of whether he still is. My guess is he still feels invincible.

[Chadd 916]

Ok, I know I'm just pouring gas on the fire here but I'm not seeing the parody in this. It sounds a lot like the things I hear from long-time baseball fans.

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/destr...ational_pastime

[mik3 1]

Rick Ankiel, only 754 HRs to tie the record!

[Wolfpack_1986 146]

I think, chadd, they're hammering home a point by writing something thats 100% true

[mrusse01 0]

There was an interesting segment this month on Costas Now with Patrick Arnold, the chemist who designed the undetectable HGH (although I don't think he had formal training as a chemist.)

I Don’t Worry about HGH in Baseball, and Neither Should You

no one has been able to connect the increase in lean body tissue caused by HGH with enhancement of athletic performance

You see, these results are actually backed up by scientific research, published and peer reviewed in respected publications like the New England Journal of Medicine. You can certainly question them, such as the fact that the tests were conducted on men and women over 60 years old, by no means are they conclusive proof. But what these results are is actual evidence.

This is in contrast to the ZERO evidence I've ever seen that HGH does help you hit HRs or do anything else in pro sports, well unless you count hearsay and conjecture by an untrained 'chemist' on the Bob Costas Show as evidence, but I personally do not.

Ok, I know I'm just pouring gas on the fire here but I'm not seeing the parody in this. It sounds a lot like the things I hear from long-time baseball fans.

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/destr...ational_pastime

You're right, baseball is reeeeling right now. Fans are staying away in droves, TV audiences are disappearing, revenues are down across the board, interest in the game has never been lower...oh wait, none of those things are actually happening.

[mik3 1]

758

[Jason Harris 31]

I don't know that he was an untrained chemist, although it would be irrelevant to the discussion if he were. More importantly, Tim Montgomery set the World Record (and subsequently had it taken away) in the 100 Meter dash while using the Clear. That is circumstantial evidence that HGH helps athletic performance.

I think there is also a body of anecdotal evidence that steroids/HGH helps performance: the list of players that had been assumed by many, as well as implicated by others (Canseco, Grimsley?), to be taking additives. Of the list that Canseco said he personally injected with steroids (or had great reason to believe were using), only Palmiero and Wilson Alavarez were not on my suspicious list.

I was just basing my list on having spent 25 years in the gym and knowing what looks unnatural, but Canseco publicly declared he injected some of these players, and none have charged him with libel, so it would be fair to assume these players had used -- and many became stars. It also would be fair to assume they believed the steroids helped performance; otherwise, they would have stopped sooner.

Now, this is all just anecdotal or circumstantial, but we're allowed to use our intelligence and reasoning.

[mrusse01 0]

I don't know that he was an untrained chemist, although it would be irrelevant to the discussion if he were. More importantly, Tim Montgomery set the World Record (and subsequently had it taken away) in the 100 Meter dash while using the Clear. That is circumstantial evidence that HGH helps athletic performance.

I think there is also a body of anecdotal evidence that steroids/HGH helps performance: the list of players that had been assumed by many, as well as implicated by others (Canseco, Grimsley?), to be taking additives. Of the list that Canseco said he personally injected with steroids (or had great reason to believe were using), only Palmiero and Wilson Alavarez were not on my suspicious list.

I was just basing my list on having spent 25 years in the gym and knowing what looks unnatural, but Canseco publicly declared he injected some of these players, and none have charged him with libel, so it would be fair to assume these players had used -- and many became stars. It also would be fair to assume they believed the steroids helped performance; otherwise, they would have stopped sooner.

Now, this is all just anecdotal or circumstantial, but we're allowed to use our intelligence and reasoning.

There is a serious distinction to be made between anabolic steroids and human growth hormone (HGH). There is lots of evidence that anabolic steroids do increase athletic performance, whereas there is little to no evidence that HGH does the same. Another difference is that steroids are failry easily tested for, whereas there is no current test to detect the use of HGH.

A lot of Bonds critics out there try to look for a way to explain how Barry Bonds has never once failed a test for performance enhancing drugs, and they do so by claiming he used HGH, which is undetectable. The only problem with that statement is clinical studies show that HGH probably doesn't help you at all from a performance stand-point. So if he didn't take steroids (because if he did he would have tested positive for them), and if HGH doesn't do anything of benefit, then you have to conclude that all of Bonds' numbers are just the result of his natural ability.

[Jason Harris 31]

It is understood that both Bonds and Tim Montgomery were using the Clear when they broke their records. The Clear is an HGH, so I'd say there is circumstantial evidence that some human growth hormones positively impact athletic performance. Further, Patrick Arnold stated he received updates from Conti on how well Bonds and Sheffield were doing on the Clear. The inference seemed to be referring to how well they were doing in measured trials, but

Regarding steroids and how easily they are tested for, they are also well known for being able to evade detection, with masking agents, freeze-dried urine, whizzinators and other methods. Just because a professional athlete has not tested positive for steroids, it does not mean he hasn't partaken.

[RadioGaGa 162]

Screw Bonds...and A-Rod...and Glavine for that matter.

Atlanta's BOBBY COX now has the best record in all of baseball.

Most Ejections - 132

:D