Back to basics

[Spreedizzle 1]

Back to the "Back to Basics" topic at hand....

For those of you who coach/sell to young kids and beginning players, I am wondering if you encourage them to buy wood sticks with as little curve possible.

I do, since that was the basic mantra when I grew up playing in the early 80's. New players I work with are always asking me about this or that composite stick, and I always tell them to start with a woodie (Sherwood and Bauer woodies were my favorite) until they can actually control and move the puck well and have developed some fundamental puckhandling skills. Especially for backhand passing and recieving, it seems the wood stick with the straightest blade possible is still the best basic starting point for newbies. What do you all think?

When I was a kid, it was pretty easy to find a neutrual (straight) blade wood stick. Now, I only see a few patterns out there with just slight curves. Any suggestions I can pass on to new players?

PS. Apologies if this has been covered in another topic thread, but I thought it fit well here....

Starting out with anything OTHER than a very shallow curve with a neutral face will lead to some serious inefficiencies in a players fundamentals. For example....as opposed to snapping through with the wrists on a wrist shot to lift the puck, a beginner with a meat hook can simply allow the curve to do most of the work for them....ie developing poor habits.

[qmechanic 17]

Back to the "Back to Basics" topic at hand....

For those of you who coach/sell to young kids and beginning players, I am wondering if you encourage them to buy wood sticks with as little curve possible.

I do, since that was the basic mantra when I grew up playing in the early 80's. New players I work with are always asking me about this or that composite stick, and I always tell them to start with a woodie (Sherwood and Bauer woodies were my favorite) until they can actually control and move the puck well and have developed some fundamental puckhandling skills. Especially for backhand passing and recieving, it seems the wood stick with the straightest blade possible is still the best basic starting point for newbies. What do you all think?

When I was a kid, it was pretty easy to find a neutrual (straight) blade wood stick. Now, I only see a few patterns out there with just slight curves. Any suggestions I can pass on to new players?

PS. Apologies if this has been covered in another topic thread, but I thought it fit well here....

I started with a Sherwood 5030 junior stick in the Crosby pattern. Then I got frustrated because the blade length was so short and because lie was 4.5. The woody was great for stickhandling, but I was constantly losing passes. Finally, I made the leap to composite sticks and am now using a TPS XN10 Tkachuk junior stick. Following the advice of people here at MSH, I opted for the straightest possible curve rather than the Nash (which I was tempted to get). I figure that after I use the Tkachuk stick for a while and get really solid on the fundamentals, I can try other curves.

[DarkStar50 680]

We sell lots of woodies to the little guys starting out with moderate curves. We also sell straight sticks in youth size. Often, the parents are just as much rookies as the kids so when the little guy heads for the junior OPS rack, we always tell the parents, "He doesn't need that. Trust us." The parents have sticker shock to begin with on a junior OPS. When they hear us say its not what he should learn with, they realize we are truly there to help them.

Our coaches also notice how few sticks are made with flat bottomed blades. They know the benefit of a big flat blade on the ice for learning to catch passes in clinic. I can't use a rockered bottom blade. I am just glad I didn't have to learn with one like the kids today.

[hockeypunk3 0]

Well on the topic of sticks that are discontinued.

I miss the old sherwood 7000's with the crosby pattern.

They were the best sticks I've used when it came to wood sticks.

[TBLfan 25]

I coach adult beginners and I always recommend the straight blade possible. Although, it's kind of hard to convince them not to buy that lidstrom or sakic because "they are good players." <_<

[Jarick 5]

I spotted plenty of Coffeys and even Messiers in my LHS this weekend. Found a Nash R2 blade that looked like a cross between a Nash and Messier. On that note, the wood Messier blades were almost dead straight! I remember those having more curve.

Went to the range and shot for another two hours today, it's really making a difference. I was picking corners and shots much better than ever before, especially backhand.

Of course that doesn't keep me from blowing $45 on a blade and jersey at Hockey Giant for no reason

[flyerman 0]

Well....as much as I have preached against it, I am ashamed to say I think I have fallen into the Gear Whore catagory, inflicted with GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome). I notice my compulsion (and stick collection) growing, so I must be getting closer to becoming an honorary member of the MSH cult of hockey gear (sticks) obsessives!

I have recently spent an lot money trying to find that ever-ellusive perfect stick that does it all. I know I am set with my blade pattern (the aforementioned Coffey), but I snapped two of those $45 Momentum XD taper-fit blades (actually they are now the RM9 blade -- same exact blade, different name) after only a couple months of play each. Plus, the blade feels too thin to me, and one-timers just flutter or knuckle off of them. It's great in pretty much every other aspect, but it just doesn't hold up for me in shooting or taking hard passes. So.....

So I went out and bought a couple of Synergy STs - an 85 flex Heatley and Gaborik. The Gaborik's great but the lie is too high. Even that little difference between the Coffey and the Gabby totally screws me up. The Heat lie is nice and low, but the blade is too freakin short and small, and the curve is so little that I find I can't cup the puck like I am used to and lose it while stickhandling in games. $300+ later, frustration! But I can shoot one timers confidently, as the blade holds up and the flex is perfect. And my slap shot is much heavier overall then with the Coffey blades.

I have become spoiled by the lightweight set-up I have been using: an Easton Synergy II shaft and the Sherwood RM9 taper-fit blade. It's really a perfectly balanced stick and is extremely comfortable. But I can't afford to keep breaking those blades at $45-50 a pop, and I am losing confidence on the ice when I need to one time the puck or recieve a hard pass. The blade is just not solid and strong enough. Maybe it's that "foam core."

Anyway, I have come to the likely conclusion that the only way I am really ever going to be satisfied is to get a top-of-the-line Sherwood OPS, which should combine everything I want in a hockey stick -- the Coffey stock pattern, the light weight, the balance, the durability, etc.

Since they don't make the RM9 in a Coffey pattern (ARRGGH), I am going for one of the custom RM19s which I have found (thanks to this forum) through a LHS in Mass. They actually have a Coffey pattern in an 85 Flex, regular grip and medium grip available. The only thing I'm not crazy about are the colors: white and orange!

I am obsessing because it's by far the most expensive piece of gear I have ever bought next to skates at $219, so I am feeling pretty guilty about even considering it. But I guess if I can get rid of my load of other synergies and RM7 Sherwoods, I should be able to afford it without too much internal strife. Other than my kid and essentials, I don't really spend money on anything else besides hockey. So why not, right?

Maybe this will be the final chapter of "progressing" back to basics and this stick will rock my world. I'm pretty sure I'm going to enjoy it an hell of a lot more than going through that relearning phase of trying to get the new Synergies I bought to work for me.

Maybe I'm not a Gear Whore afterall, but just suffer from OCHD (Obsessive Compulsive Hockey Disorder)! I'm not sure which is worse. :lol:

[evor1 6]

i learned my lesson with the vapor 40 stick. not gonn abuy a new stick until i break the 3 i have now.

[Krev 86]

Maybe I'm not a Gear Whore afterall, but just suffer from OCHD (Obsessive Compulsive Hockey Disorder)! I'm not sure which is worse. :lol:

Neither is worse. Both are perfectly normal! Be proud! I hope that stick works for you, by the by. B)

[Jarick 5]

Yes, I amassed a pile of shafts and blades, and now I'm clearing them all out.

In pretty much any hobby, unless you can dedicated a great amount of time pursuing it, you think about it so much that you end up buying a lot of crap. So long as you're not going broke or interfering with the rest of your life, it's alright.

Isn't the Statsny the new Coffey curve?

[flyerman 0]

Yes, I amassed a pile of shafts and blades, and now I'm clearing them all out.

In pretty much any hobby, unless you can dedicated a great amount of time pursuing it, you think about it so much that you end up buying a lot of crap. So long as you're not going broke or interfering with the rest of your life, it's alright.

Isn't the Statsny the new Coffey curve?

You're the second person I heard say this. Who makes the Statsny curve? Any idea when it will be available? I haven't seen anything about this pattern on the SW site.

[wetwilly17 6]

At the same time, there are two constants: 100 flex and modano clones. I have/had sticks from TPS, NBH, Mission, RBK, Warrior, and Easton- all with a modano clone or a pro curve that was fairly similar.

i pretty much only use modano/forsberg/federov curve. i like the subtle mid-heel curve with very little loft and i like a low lie. what pro curves are very similar - most important to me is that it has a low lie and not much loft.

[Jarick 5]

Yes, I amassed a pile of shafts and blades, and now I'm clearing them all out.

In pretty much any hobby, unless you can dedicated a great amount of time pursuing it, you think about it so much that you end up buying a lot of crap. So long as you're not going broke or interfering with the rest of your life, it's alright.

Isn't the Statsny the new Coffey curve?

You're the second person I heard say this. Who makes the Statsny curve? Any idea when it will be available? I haven't seen anything about this pattern on the SW site.

The other person was probably me :D

Sher-wood makes the Statsny, and it looks like a mid hook to me, and I don't see any more Coffeys on the shelves. So I just figure they finally renamed it.

It's been out for a couple months now at one of my LHS'.

[flyerman 0]

[

Sher-wood makes the Statsny, and it looks like a mid hook to me, and I don't see any more Coffeys on the shelves. So I just figure they finally renamed it.

It's been out for a couple months now at one of my LHS'.

That's so weird. It's not listed on the SW website, and I can't find any info about it. Maybe those are pro-stock blades???

Maybe if I email Sherwood they might actually get back to me. They often never respond to questions I have about their products....

Anyway, where did you see these?

[topshelf11 0]

I liked lots of the old Sher-Wood patterns: Coffey, Bondra, LeClair.

For a mid-curve, 5 lie, the Warrior Robitaille is the best I have found. The TPS Sundin/Afinogenov in second.

I'd like to see the Heatley, but nobody around here carries them, and they seem hard to find in blades, and I am a shaft/blade combo guy. No more OPS for me.

[flyerman 0]

I liked lots of the old Sher-Wood patterns: Coffey, Bondra, LeClair.

For a mid-curve, 5 lie, the Warrior Robitaille is the best I have found. The TPS Sundin/Afinogenov in second.

I'd like to see the Heatley, but nobody around here carries them, and they seem hard to find in blades, and I am a shaft/blade combo guy. No more OPS for me.

I know that Easton makes the ST composite and Pro wood blade in a Heatley. But If you like a bigger mid-curve, I don't think the Heatley would do it for you. I bought a Heatley Synergy ST and there's just not enough hook on it for me, and I'm constantly losing control of the puck.

I like the Gaborik curve, but the lie is too high for me (and would be for you too, I imagine). I love the old Sherwood patterns too because the seemed to make low TRUE lies and I love the lie proflies on them -- LeClair was 4.5., Bourque was 4.5, Coffey is listed as 5.5 but is really between a 5-5.25. I found that the Sundin/Afinogenov is really closer to a 5.5+. The Warrior I also found to be more than a 5, and the profile didn't work for me. Anyway...I am a Coffey guy forever, I guess. There's just no substitute.

So, going back to basics for you means a 2 piece combo. Just curious, why no more OPS for ya?

[Jarick 5]

Flyer, I went and checked, and the Stastny is the new Coffey. It's 3/4" mid, open just like it, the same weird toe, and it comes in a tapered RM19 blade. I think they were $60 or so at my LHS. They also had RM19's in 75 flex Stastny. So call up your local Sherwood people and see if they can't order some.

[flyerman 0]

Flyer, I went and checked, and the Stastny is the new Coffey. It's 3/4" mid, open just like it, the same weird toe, and it comes in a tapered RM19 blade. I think they were $60 or so at my LHS. They also had RM19's in 75 flex Stastny. So call up your local Sherwood people and see if they can't order some.

Wow! This is cool. Did you notice if the Stastny lie was the same as the Coffey? Did they have the RM19 in a Left?

Could you tell me the name of your LHS so I can contact them. I know for sure that there's no chance of me getting one through mine....

Thanks man!

[flyerman 0]

Flyer, I went and checked, and the Stastny is the new Coffey. It's 3/4" mid, open just like it, the same weird toe, and it comes in a tapered RM19 blade. I think they were $60 or so at my LHS. They also had RM19's in 75 flex Stastny. So call up your local Sherwood people and see if they can't order some.

Wow! This is cool. Did you notice if the Stastny lie was the same as the Coffey? Did they have the RM19 in a Left?

Could you tell me the name of your LHS so I can contact them. I know for sure that there's no chance of me getting one through mine....

Thanks man!

I contacted Sherwood and they told me that the Stastny is a pro pattern and not available "in our regular line product." So that must have been a pro stock RM19 you saw. I'm still trying to get the specs of the Stastny blade from Sherwood to see how close it is to a Coffey. I know the Coffey curve is way illegal, so I can't image the Stastny being nearly has big. The saga continues....

[Jarick 5]

That can't be right, I've seen both LH and RH Stastny's and sticks with different flexes, as well as wood and composite blades. Besides, he uses a wood stick, this was a OPS.

Coffey's legal...3/4" is ok this year per USA hockey and NHL rules as well.

[hunterphfr 12]

It's not even so much back to basics for me. At 150 to 220 a pop for a stick who has the cash to experiment? I'll stick to what I know, though I am curious there is no way I could drop 220 on a stick decide it wasn't right for me and try and recoup some of my losses on Ebay. So until borrowing a teammates stick during warmup and giving it a try and finding it rocks my world. I'll stick to an Iginla or a Heatley on my next stick.

[flyerman 0]

That can't be right, I've seen both LH and RH Stastny's and sticks with different flexes, as well as wood and composite blades. Besides, he uses a wood stick, this was a OPS.

Coffey's legal...3/4" is ok this year per USA hockey and NHL rules as well.

Yeah, Jarick....I think you're right. That doesn't make sense if they offer rights, lefts and blades. Something is wacky here. Either the guy at Sherwood doesn't know what's going on, or these must be early demo models and Sherwood is trying to keep the new pattern under wraps for some reason (?). Or maybe there's another explanation. I'll call your LHS again and see what's up. We (I) will get to the bottom of this! :lol:

In the meantime, Here's what Sherwood said when I asked about the STASTNY pattern:

"Good morning,

We do not Statsny's [sic] pattern yet in our regular line product.

The stick that he is using is his own pattern ( Special Order Product )

We do not have any patterns in our regular line that is similar

You could have it done as a Special order

We do custom Goalie and forward sticks and replacement blades.

Min is 12 for Wood Forwards sticks and Replacement Blades.

Composite is 3 units minimum for sticks and 6 units for Replacement

Blades

We cannot sell direct to consumers. You must buy trough your preferred

Pro

Shop or Store that sells Sherwood products

Thank you for you interest in Sherwood products

Customer Service"

[flyerman 0]

Jarick et al.,

The owner of your LHS says that the Stastny sticks and blades are a special pro pattern that Sherwood only makes for his store. They do match the ORIGINAL Coffey PRO pattern -- the one Coff was actually playing with two decades ago. But this is NOT the same as the Coffey stock pattern which has the big, illegal banana I have grown to love. Yes, the Coffey stock pattern is way illegal, as pointed out by the owner. Although I could see why you might think it was legal because it's listed as 3/4" (which the new rule allows). But it's actually closer to 1 1/2"!!!

There is clearly discrepancy with the how companies measure the depth of the curves vs. the actual depth. For example, when I ordered my custom Christian blades with a 3/4" curve depth (thinking I was getting a big banana like the Coff), I received blades that looked like less than a 3/8" curve (using Easton "specs"). At least Christian gave me my next blade order at 50% off....

Back to the Stastny RM19s....These are completely different from the regular SOP RM19's as they have a rounded, lighter shaft, are stronger, and are made by True Temper. The blades, like I said, do match the old Coffey pro pattern, but are completely different from the Coffey retail stock pattern -- which your man says he has never carried because he had the real deal pro ones specially made for him (now replaced by his real deal pro Stastnys). Hope that clears up the confusion (if anyone really cared!).

So, I'm holding off on droping $200 on the RM19 and instead just ordered another "cheap" $90 RM7 but in an 85 Flex. I am simply going to force myself to deal with the less than ideal weight and balance and boxy tankish feel. Maybe it'll give me better hands in the end! I know....keep dreamin', eh.

[flyerman 0]

So I got a new RM7 85 Flex in the Coff and am determined (once again) to make (allow) this stick work for me. It's not ideal weight- and feel-wise, but the flex is real nice and the curve is...well....a Coffey, so it's perfect.

I figure it's finally time to begin to sell off the hundreds of dollars worth of sticks and gear I have accumulated and stay with the basics that I have that are proven and work real well for me. I've been preaching this, so I better start practicing it. Otherwise it's a never-ending search for something better (RM19 Coffey 75 Flex)!

Please forgive my ignorance, as I know it's posted here somewhere (although when I searched I couldn't find it), but how do I go about becoming eligible to sell things on MSH? I've got some terrific sticks and gear in fabulous shape which I think many on this site would be interested in checking out.

Just tell me if this is out of line to post here and let me know how I should proceed with this. THANKS!

[TBLfan 25]

It will become available when it becomes available. Nothing you can do will speed up the process but there's a few things you can do(like repeatedly asking or trying to pad your post count) that can slow that option down considerably.