2008 NYR Thread

[#96 0]

And one of the most unbelievable displays in hockey history

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdN-QCOUPMU

Anyone who doesn't miss Thorne is a douche:

Al Morganti! What happened to that guy? He was rocking a salt-n-pepper mullet there for awhile.

[Cavs019 710]

It took 700 repeats of the '94 rangers run on msg during the lockout year to make me not give a damn about that anymore.

[jay 1]

I can't stand Thorne and don't miss him in the slightest. It was a great call but I can't imagine anyone not calling that moment great.

[Chadd 916]

Anyone who doesn't miss Thorne is a douche:

Does that include the hundreds of guys whose names he botched? Nice guy and I like his style but I can easily see why people had issues with him.

[kosydar 0]

Get ready for a battle between a team who can't win at home and a team who can't win on the road. Too bad there isn't a way for both teams to lose.

[#96 0]

Well, the refs did everything they could to help the Leafs in the second period. Typical Hockey Night Night in Canada game for the Leafs; they will do anything to get the Leafs or Habs a home win on a Saturday vs any US team.

Way to come in and play, Valiquette. Great effort, and your mom is kind of a MILF.

[kosydar 0]

With the exception of the no call on McCabe in the 2nd, I disagree. There was a fair amount that was let go, but it went both ways and I have no problem with that. I thought it was a well officiated game, although there seemed to be way more close offsides than usual.

I'm interested in seeing what happens with this Avery thing. From the sound of Tucker's interview it sounded like Avery really crossed the line before the game. First thing that comes to mind is that he said something about Blake which would not be cool. Who knows though, its not like you'd really expect much more from him. Say what you want about Tucker, but I much prefer how he refuses to get into it with Avery through the media. Its impressive how Avery backed up his talk with that good shift, although both of the goals were more the result of bad positioning/good play from Shanny.

[Theo 1]

With the exception of the no call on McCabe in the 2nd, I disagree. There was a fair amount that was let go, but it went both ways and I have no problem with that. I thought it was a well officiated game, although there seemed to be way more close offsides than usual.

I'm interested in seeing what happens with this Avery thing. From the sound of Tucker's interview it sounded like Avery really crossed the line before the game. First thing that comes to mind is that he said something about Blake which would not be cool. Who knows though, its not like you'd really expect much more from him. Say what you want about Tucker, but I much prefer how he refuses to get into it with Avery through the media. Its impressive how Avery backed up his talk with that good shift, although both of the goals were more the result of bad positioning/good play from Shanny.

What happens with the Avery thing?

Just wondering Kosy, but what should happen? These are grown men and it is out on the ice where pretty much anything goes. I have had an Aunt and Grandparents die of Cancer and it is terrible. God bless anyone who suffers from it. It hits home. But having said that, sticks and stones...

Not to mention it is all speculation and overall it seems Avery was talking to Tucker from the getgo

I understand how you may like your players to be respectful to the media, but I like mine to produce when it is needed and without Avery we lose tonight.

Not to mention Cherry makes a complete ass of himself here:

And I liked Cherry a lot for his comments on the US and 9-11.

But first of all, Avery is talking to Tucker first, not Blake as Cherry incorrectly points out. Then Cherry notes that this is why people hate hockey. Not really, the casual observer loves that shit, fights overall or else free wheeling high scoring games. Then he cries about how Avery is not taken out by a Goon. Meanwhile he has been fighting the guys he has been agitating, playing fair in that regard. Overall, Cherry is an asshat in regards to this

[kosydar 0]

I will agree that this was not Cherry's finest moment, and he certainly didn't get me riled up. He doesn't gain any credibility by continually referring to Tucker as the Leaf's best player. By what happens I mean what comes out of this. I don't think that Avery should be suspended by the league or anything for this, I just am interested to see if it comes out what was said. I'm just extrapolating that Avery said something to/about Blake because from my memory, its when Blake skated over that Tucker got pissed. Still, its hard to sit back and watch Avery run his mouth at the smallest guys on the ice (granted he isn't big himself), turn down a fight with Tucker once, and hesitate the second time. As I recall this same scenario happened last year. Avery produced, no doubt about it. But at the same time what the hell is he starting fights for before the game? The league should look into that, because thats not hockey. I just have a feeling that Avery really crossed the line with what he said. His own team looked like they were more interested in just making sure nobody fought him, as opposed to the Leafs who also had Bell and Gill pissed off. I will agree with Cherry regarding the instigator rule. If it wasn't there Avery wouldn't be able to be a sideshow.

[DarkStar50 679]

There really is no place in the NHL for Sean Avery using one of the oldest Junior hockey moves, the pre-game warm-up skate yap and dust-up. Funny that another guy who used these tactics to his advantage was from Quebec, Claude Lemieux! They both deliver goals and havoc during the game also. Avery had the "Gordie Howe Hat-trick", goal, assist, and a fight.

[#96 0]

I didn't see the CBC feed. I only got MSG. What did Avery say, can anyone elaborate? I can assume by Kosy and Theo's comments, that it had something to do with Blake's cancer. Which, if true, would be truly disgusting, and have no place in our game. Avery would deserve any punishment, be on the ice or off for comments of that nature.

Kosy - I was really referring to the the late hits that were occurring during the game. There were several. Specifically, in the second period, Gill (I think) takes out Gomer, and while getting up, gets a glove on the head by Toskala. Gomer gets up and pushes Toskala, and as a result is the only one to get a penalty on the play.

Avery pushes the envelope sometimes. As much as I like what he brings, he does have his low moments. It's reminiscent of Matt Barnaby telling Gary Roberts (after major neck surgery), "Roberts, I'm gonna break your neck!". Some things just go where they shouldn't. The racial comments, the personal things, have no place on the ice. I understand being an agitator, but there is a level of respect between players that has to be maintained.

I also have to agree with the instigator rule for pre-game activity. I know players aren't allowed to cross the red line, but if you're hanging out there and up to no good, you should pay a penalty. I don't know what, but you should. Avery has been there 2 games now where something has happened (Devils and Leafs) and both times, it lead to game-time fights. You're obviously there for a reason and the leauge should curtail it.

Also - Did anyone see the Antropov's shot? As he goes down ice, a Ranger is on the ice at the end of the bench. I thought everyone had to be off the ice during penalty shots and shootouts???

[kosydar 0]

Nobody is sure what Avery said. I was merely speculating thats what he said. Tucker didn't seem to really care what Avery said until Blake got involved, and seeing what Blake is going through and the fact that Avery has no class, I just guessed Blake made a cancer comment. The hit on Gomer in front of the net was the McCabe I was referring to. Should have been an interference, but Gomer's was a stupid retaliation.

[the1gwiz 0]

Avery has been there 2 games now where something has happened (Devils and Leafs) and both times, it lead to game-time fights. You're obviously there for a reason and the leauge should curtail it.

I'm thinking the coach should be held responsible in a situation like this. The league should slap the player, coach, and/or organization with a fine if the team can't keep their players from acting like jackasses before the puck is dropped.

I would like to be able to add that the affront itself would be settled on the ice eventually, but with the ridiculous instigator rule, well...

[Theo 1]

I will agree that this was not Cherry's finest moment, and he certainly didn't get me riled up. He doesn't gain any credibility by continually referring to Tucker as the Leaf's best player. By what happens I mean what comes out of this. I don't think that Avery should be suspended by the league or anything for this, I just am interested to see if it comes out what was said. I'm just extrapolating that Avery said something to/about Blake because from my memory, its when Blake skated over that Tucker got pissed. Still, its hard to sit back and watch Avery run his mouth at the smallest guys on the ice (granted he isn't big himself), turn down a fight with Tucker once, and hesitate the second time. As I recall this same scenario happened last year. Avery produced, no doubt about it. But at the same time what the hell is he starting fights for before the game? The league should look into that, because thats not hockey. I just have a feeling that Avery really crossed the line with what he said. His own team looked like they were more interested in just making sure nobody fought him, as opposed to the Leafs who also had Bell and Gill pissed off. I will agree with Cherry regarding the instigator rule. If it wasn't there Avery wouldn't be able to be a sideshow.

I'd agree on the instigator rule, but even so generally Avery has fought the guys he has agitated. It is not like he is talking crap to the Leafs and Tucker and then doesn't drop them when Tucker wants to. I mean, I would rather that than Avery or Tucker having Orr or Belak handle their business. I think it is a different realm when you are talking about guys who generally don't fight though.

I mean, it was settled on the ice. Avery and Tucker fought.

The off ice BS and chirping is all his style and the method to his madness. He knows Broduer hears him through the media or papers when he says Marty is a whining diver. Same for any comments on Tucker. And you know what? It does work more so than less. He gets a vet pest in Gary Roberts to get a 4 minute penalty when we played Pittsburgh. I can't say whether Avery is an A-hole off the ice because his comments have one goal in mind and that is to piss the other team off. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But he always tries.

I still think that is huge specultion on Blake. I watched this guy as an Islander and he was a mighty attention whore that lost the respect of his teammates and caused the divide of the room with Peca early on (that specific season). He likes to get in the midst of things and then backs off. From the clips I have seen, it looked like Tucker and Avery were yapping and Blake comes out of nowhere to get into it

[Eazy_b97 1]

Well, the refs did everything they could to help the Leafs in the second period. Typical Hockey Night Night in Canada game for the Leafs; they will do anything to get the Leafs or Habs a home win on a Saturday vs any US team.

Way to come in and play, Valiquette. Great effort, and your mom is kind of a MILF.

Ya, the most penalized team in the league gets all the breaks. Like the refs putting the whistle away in the third until the last 5 minutes where the Rags happen to get 2 PPs. The first one on a weak hook that had been let go all period. There was a number of stuff the ref saw, and chose not to call, but then the Rangers get a huge PP late in the game. Please, know what you are talking about. The Leafs have had 23 more SH situations than the Rangers all season. The Refs aren't helping them much at all. A few missed calls, definately, but really now. There was one huge play in the third where the Leafs were turning to come in on a tired NYR D-core, and Devo's feet are pulled out. This caused Devo's backchecking penalty. Leafs have had 82 PP's, I believe that is the worst PP to PK ratio in the league at well. Converesely NYR is +6 in the category (leafs -18). Yet the Leafs have played a good chunk of the season without McCabe and Tucker. Funny how that happens, it must be the league's attempt to get in good with the Leafs and HNIC.

I'd agree on the instigator rule, but even so generally Avery has fought the guys he has agitated. It is not like he is talking crap to the Leafs and Tucker and then doesn't drop them when Tucker wants to. I mean, I would rather that than Avery or Tucker having Orr or Belak handle their business. I think it is a different realm when you are talking about guys who generally don't fight though.

I mean, it was settled on the ice. Avery and Tucker fought.

The off ice BS and chirping is all his style and the method to his madness. He knows Broduer hears him through the media or papers when he says Marty is a whining diver. Same for any comments on Tucker. And you know what? It does work more so than less. He gets a vet pest in Gary Roberts to get a 4 minute penalty when we played Pittsburgh. I can't say whether Avery is an A-hole off the ice because his comments have one goal in mind and that is to piss the other team off. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But he always tries.

I still think that is huge specultion on Blake. I watched this guy as an Islander and he was a mighty attention whore that lost the respect of his teammates and caused the divide of the room with Peca early on (that specific season). He likes to get in the midst of things and then backs off. From the clips I have seen, it looked like Tucker and Avery were yapping and Blake comes out of nowhere to get into it

I just wish we would see Avery drop his gloves and set-up to fight, instead of playing possum, then jumping into a fight. Tootoo gets in trougble for this all the time. It's nice to see Avery stick up for himself, I still remember times when he wouldn't. I have no idea what he said, but it sounds bad. It would've been interesting to see if Tucker followed through with his stick in warm-up.

[#96 0]

Well, the refs did everything they could to help the Leafs in the second period. Typical Hockey Night Night in Canada game for the Leafs; they will do anything to get the Leafs or Habs a home win on a Saturday vs any US team.

Way to come in and play, Valiquette. Great effort, and your mom is kind of a MILF.

Ya, the most penalized team in the league gets all the breaks. Like the refs putting the whistle away in the third until the last 5 minutes where the Rags happen to get 2 PPs. The first one on a weak hook that had been let go all period. There was a number of stuff the ref saw, and chose not to call, but then the Rangers get a huge PP late in the game. Please, know what you are talking about. The Leafs have had 23 more SH situations than the Rangers all season. The Refs aren't helping them much at all. A few missed calls, definately, but really now. There was one huge play in the third where the Leafs were turning to come in on a tired NYR D-core, and Devo's feet are pulled out. This caused Devo's backchecking penalty. Leafs have had 82 PP's, I believe that is the worst PP to PK ratio in the league at well. Converesely NYR is +6 in the category (leafs -18). Yet the Leafs have played a good chunk of the season without McCabe and Tucker. Funny how that happens, it must be the league's attempt to get in good with the Leafs and HNIC.

The 1st and 3rd were called well. It was the second. Down 2-nothing early, calls suddenly start getting missed and things get let go. Next thing you know, the Leafs are back in it and the game becomes more "respectable". I've seen it more than once to know there seems to be a heavy correlation between Canadian teams and HNIC vs US teams. I think it's more prevalent for the Habs, but Toronto gets its share.

[Chadd 916]

I'm not a Leafs fan but they get the smelly end of the stick on HNIC more often than not.

[Eazy_b97 1]

They get called in the last 5 minutes more than any team I've ever seen. Why was this not mentioned in any of the posts if refereeing was the issue? Could it be both were for the Rangers? PP's were even last night, I can't remember the last HNIC game they had the advantage on. I know it hasn't been any of the last 3 games. I know last season there were a number of games they came out of the gate to non-stop calls. In the Pitts and Chicago games I was at, both visiting teams had 3rd period comebacks and both were heavy PP periods by the visiting teams. I thought the last 5 minutes was terribly officiated last night, even without the calls. The whistle went away and it prevent scoring chances for both teams. The calls came later.... at least for one team. There isn't an HNIC bias towards Toronto. There's nothing to support it and watching it on a weekly basis shows how it is the opposite if anything. Your complaining about bias towards the most penalized team in the league who has the work PP to PK ratio. What more do you want? It's a team which plays downlow and doesn't get nearly enough PP's from it since the infractions have been labelled "battling". This team gets the shafted way too often on calls.

[Theo 1]

Well, the refs did everything they could to help the Leafs in the second period. Typical Hockey Night Night in Canada game for the Leafs; they will do anything to get the Leafs or Habs a home win on a Saturday vs any US team.

Way to come in and play, Valiquette. Great effort, and your mom is kind of a MILF.

Ya, the most penalized team in the league gets all the breaks. Like the refs putting the whistle away in the third until the last 5 minutes where the Rags happen to get 2 PPs. The first one on a weak hook that had been let go all period. There was a number of stuff the ref saw, and chose not to call, but then the Rangers get a huge PP late in the game. Please, know what you are talking about. The Leafs have had 23 more SH situations than the Rangers all season. The Refs aren't helping them much at all. A few missed calls, definately, but really now. There was one huge play in the third where the Leafs were turning to come in on a tired NYR D-core, and Devo's feet are pulled out. This caused Devo's backchecking penalty. Leafs have had 82 PP's, I believe that is the worst PP to PK ratio in the league at well. Converesely NYR is +6 in the category (leafs -18). Yet the Leafs have played a good chunk of the season without McCabe and Tucker. Funny how that happens, it must be the league's attempt to get in good with the Leafs and HNIC.

I'd agree on the instigator rule, but even so generally Avery has fought the guys he has agitated. It is not like he is talking crap to the Leafs and Tucker and then doesn't drop them when Tucker wants to. I mean, I would rather that than Avery or Tucker having Orr or Belak handle their business. I think it is a different realm when you are talking about guys who generally don't fight though.

I mean, it was settled on the ice. Avery and Tucker fought.

The off ice BS and chirping is all his style and the method to his madness. He knows Broduer hears him through the media or papers when he says Marty is a whining diver. Same for any comments on Tucker. And you know what? It does work more so than less. He gets a vet pest in Gary Roberts to get a 4 minute penalty when we played Pittsburgh. I can't say whether Avery is an A-hole off the ice because his comments have one goal in mind and that is to piss the other team off. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But he always tries.

I still think that is huge specultion on Blake. I watched this guy as an Islander and he was a mighty attention whore that lost the respect of his teammates and caused the divide of the room with Peca early on (that specific season). He likes to get in the midst of things and then backs off. From the clips I have seen, it looked like Tucker and Avery were yapping and Blake comes out of nowhere to get into it

I just wish we would see Avery drop his gloves and set-up to fight, instead of playing possum, then jumping into a fight. Tootoo gets in trougble for this all the time. It's nice to see Avery stick up for himself, I still remember times when he wouldn't. I have no idea what he said, but it sounds bad. It would've been interesting to see if Tucker followed through with his stick in warm-up.

That would deserve a suspension before Avery for making fun of Blake (speculation). Just to hear that though really instills just how effective Avery has been not only in getting under the skin of Toronto players, but the fans and seemingly the city as well.

Bravo...I have to give him props

[Eazy_b97 1]

Depends what was said. Tucker's the type he wouldn't stop and I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he ended Avery's career. It'll be interesting to hear your thoughts once the speculation ends and the actual comments are revealed. He was also wearing a ring in the fight according to speculation.

I'm not really sure why you are surprised he is that effective. When you stoop to Racial comments and similar tactics, it's not surprising you get under people's skin. Afterall he was asked to leave LA after a period. A number of the Rangers players were apperantly against his comments last night as well. Funny to see him go against Sather's wishes last night as well.

[#96 0]

Seems like a whole lotta speculation. Anti-Avery speculation. And coming from Toronto, it doesn't surprise me. You guys have nothing better to do.

Rings, cancer comments, shooters from the grassy knoll. Get over it, Avery is GOD.

[Eazy_b97 1]

Seems like a whole lotta speculation. Anti-Avery speculation. And coming from Toronto, it doesn't surprise me. You guys have nothing better to do.

Rings, cancer comments, shooters from the grassy knoll. Get over it, Avery is GOD.

I guess comments like these come when you can't defend a point. Instead you generalize a community and fanbase to make yourself look like you are "winning". If you can't keep it civil, don't post. Nothing you've said here has any substance. You are simply venting and attacking, showing how little you have to offer this discussion.

At this point it is a whole lotta speculation, speculation which is supported by history (of Avery crossing the line) and coming from sources which don't usually lie.

[Theo 1]

Depends what was said. Tucker's the type he wouldn't stop and I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he ended Avery's career. It'll be interesting to hear your thoughts once the speculation ends and the actual comments are revealed. He was also wearing a ring in the fight according to speculation.

I'm not really sure why you are surprised he is that effective. When you stoop to Racial comments and similar tactics, it's not surprising you get under people's skin. Afterall he was asked to leave LA after a period. A number of the Rangers players were apperantly against his comments last night as well. Funny to see him go against Sather's wishes last night as well.

I'd have to agree with 96 in that I am sure a lot of this came from TO, and I'd like to add that I am sure his teammates appreciate the fact that he helped us win more than anything else he did.

He is tight with Jagr and Shanny and those are really the only two guys that count because if either of them go south the whole team is screwed. Sure, Shanny said the politically correct thing after the game (he has no choice), but those two in particular hang out in the city a great deal. Pretty much Avery's mentor and I am sure inside he doesn't like all of Avery's comments, but he knows how effective Avery is.

What irks people most is that he can play as well and that must kill people up there. But like Shanny said, him and Tucker have had very similar early careers-which I actually found to be a knock on Tucker since Tucker whines about him so much to the media.

BTW, don't think it was mentioned but the most blatent non call of yesterday was Bell's head punches at Avery, early in this vid

[kosydar 0]

Theo those aren't punches.

[Theo 1]

BTW, as far as not following the team's directions to not talk smack after the game:

After being notified of what Tucker said about him, Avery simply responded:

Informed that Tucker had called him classless, Avery replied: "I've been called that before and I'll be called that again."

Looks like Avery was the classier guy after the game

Theo those aren't punches.

I think we would all agree the NHL needs less headshots, Kosy

:)

Told Tucker called Avery "classless," Shanahan laughed.

"That's funny because I just compared them to each other. I'm not a fan of all the talk but in the end they're both passionate players," Shanahan said.

"Everybody knows (Avery's) antics and that he has the ability to get under people's skin but I remember when I was in Detroit and when we played and them, how good he is as a player. These two guys go at each other pretty good. They're a lot alike."