After workout Supplements

[camhockey16 5]

Food is the fundamental building block of muscle, not protein. Unless your consuming around 6 meals a day, with a stringent balance of carbs, protein, and fats, shakes will not do anything for you.

im not sure i agree with that statement entirely..

yeah you do have to be eating properly to put on any type of weight whether it is muscle or fat - but i think you would have a hard time finding a bodybuilder or anyone else that doesn't take protein shakes on a regular basis to help.

"Protein is made of amino acids. Amino acids are the basic building blocks of muscle. Therefore, protein is an essential ingredient for muscle building. You can't build muscle without it! You will want to take in about 1-2 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight throughout the day. So an average person who weighs 150 lbs would want to consume between 150 and 300 grams of protein in a day. Protein shakes and bars are convenient and provide high quality protein."

[nni 0]

wow, just wow.

anyway, carbs + protein in your post workout is all you really need. there are several products that accomplish this for you: designer supplements replenish, myogenix aftershock recovery, optimum nutrition recover 2:1:1 or you can simply get a protein powder you like and add some gatorade powder.

you should give your muscle group at least 48 hours rest before working it again.

[Abubaca 0]

The amount of misinformation in this thread is staggering!

If you want to know how a One90 skate fits compared to a XXXX skate, by all means ask. -but you wouldn't ask how to change your car's alternator on MSH, so why ask for nutritional advice?

As a former professional trainer, I can tell you that anyone who gives you a black and white answer doesn't know what they're talking about. Short of maybe good diet and avoid steroids. LOL. Seriously, I wouldn't recommend ANYTHING more than good diet and maybe whey protein without consulting a doctor, if for no other reason than help you to not throw away your money.

.....but that's not to say supplements are bad. This thread is about advice. And my (former) professional advice is that no one here knows enough about YOU, your body, your goals, your history, etc. etc. to give you the advice you want.

....and I'm not gonna say what other people are doing is wrong either. I'm just saying there's a big difference between the statements: "what worked for me" and "here's what YOU should do".

[willy0314 0]

Food is the fundamental building block of muscle, not protein. Unless your consuming around 6 meals a day, with a stringent balance of carbs, protein, and fats, shakes will not do anything for you.

im not sure i agree with that statement entirely..

yeah you do have to be eating properly to put on any type of weight whether it is muscle or fat - but i think you would have a hard time finding a bodybuilder or anyone else that doesn't take protein shakes on a regular basis to help.

"Protein is made of amino acids. Amino acids are the basic building blocks of muscle. Therefore, protein is an essential ingredient for muscle building. You can't build muscle without it! You will want to take in about 1-2 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight throughout the day. So an average person who weighs 150 lbs would want to consume between 150 and 300 grams of protein in a day. Protein shakes and bars are convenient and provide high quality protein."

Cav is right, unless your body is taking in carbs and fats (energy), and preferably in a steady amount throughout the day (5-6 meals), protine shakes won't do much for you. If your body doesn't have enough energy sources, it will start to use the protine you take in for energy - therefore no muscle growth. You need excess calories (the good kind, not junk food) and enough protine in your diet to build muscle. (that is a very basic way of putting it)

[willy0314 0]

How do you find the Whey Protein goes in terms of muscle growth and recovery willy?

At first I would go to GNC, read the labels and buy a tub of over priced stuff that I thought was good enough. After about a year or so of rather limited gains, and horrible tasting shakes I started doing some research, and kind of got my crap together. 3 years later, I've put on about 20 lbs of solid muscle since then, all my weights are way up from when I started, and over all I'm pretty happy.

The most important things are diet, sleep, and water. If you don't get those right, your not going to see much progress. Beleive me, every one thinks they have a good diet, until they do a little research and realize they eat like shit.

Haveing a Whey shake with some carbs after your workout is a nice thing to have, and pretty much the standard when it comes to the subject. Myself, I've been using Optimum's whey protine , it tastes great, reasonably priced, and its one of the better powders out there.

But, I have to repeat, before you go out spending any money, get your diet right first. It will save you alot of money and you'll see alot better results at the gym.

[nni 0]

diet is most important, but as long as you are a human being, protein + carbs post workout is ideal for recovery.

[Trooper 8]

A lowfat chocolate milk has pretty much everything you need after a workout. Protein, carbs, vitamins, and tastes good too.

Not really. You would need a hell of a lot of chocolate milk, and low fat or not, fat is the last thing you want after a workout. Fat slows digestion down and you want the fastest absorption after a workout.

This type of thread is why a hockey message board is not the place to ask questions like this.

Chocolate milk has an optimal carb to protein ratio for recovery after strenuous exercise as shown in this and other studies- http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/524370

A little more evidence and less speculation, heresay, and anecdotes would make this thread much more useful.

[Remman 0]

A lowfat chocolate milk has pretty much everything you need after a workout. Protein, carbs, vitamins, and tastes good too.

Not really. You would need a hell of a lot of chocolate milk, and low fat or not, fat is the last thing you want after a workout. Fat slows digestion down and you want the fastest absorption after a workout.

This type of thread is why a hockey message board is not the place to ask questions like this.

Chocolate milk has an optimal carb to protein ratio for recovery after strenuous exercise as shown in this and other studies- http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/524370

A little more evidence and less speculation, heresay, and anecdotes would make this thread much more useful.

There have been numerous threads on this, but I'll leave another statement anyway.

Chocolate milk also has fat in it which is not something you want after a workout. As well, milk is not a fast digesting protein. You want your body to absorb the protein and carbs as fast as possible afterwards.

[Trooper 8]

There have been numerous threads on this, but I'll leave another statement anyway.

Chocolate milk also has fat in it which is not something you want after a workout. As well, milk is not a fast digesting protein. You want your body to absorb the protein and carbs as fast as possible afterwards.

I don't care how many threads there have been, don't make statements in a vacuum. Provide data and evidence for your statements.

The vast majority of people who ask about supplementation probably don't eat right to begin with, don't train hard enough or correctly to begin with, and will see limited gains based on those shortcomings, regardless of what they take post-workout.

There is low-fat chocolate milk available as well.

More people should quit drinking the Kool-Aid being fed to them by the supplement companies and spend more time in the gym.

[nni 0]

the amount of fat in skim milk + chocolate syrup is not a hindrance post workout. yes you dont want 8+ grams of fat in your post workout window, but if you are a kid, chocolate SKIM milk is perfect until you are older and your parents let you buy stuff.

[willy0314 0]

some fats are good for you. Fat is a good source of energy for your body.

[nni 0]

some fats are good for you. Fat is a good source of energy for your body.

yes some fats are good for you, but not in the post workout window. he is right that you want fast carbs and fast proteins, but milk will do. more and more research is coming out on the benefits of a blend (slow and fast) post workout.

[Jarick 5]

Go to Google and type "post workout nutrition site:www.bodybuilding.com" and you will come up with a wealth of articles on the subject.

Most seem to recommend a 2:1 ratio of carbs to protein and very little to no fat. The carbs should be very high glycemic index (sugars) to ensure fastest absorption into the blood stream. No/low fat chocolate milk would probably be fine for the casual player; athletes should probably invest a little more time and energy in the recovery.

Lately, I've been drinking quite a bit of juice before and after games because I have issues with my blood sugar getting low and getting really dizzy before/during/after games. I eat a pretty clean diet with mostly complex carbs, lean protein, and healthy fats. But that's my weird body and my brain chemistry is a bit off.

Either way, my old post-game beer and pizza doesn't look like the correct choice. Lately it's been skim milk with Ovaltine and whey protein, then some relatively healthy food.

[Aussie Joe 0]

This is a really good thread. Thanks for your help guys. I guess I started it to gauge some opinions on supps as a whole. Not to see what the right and wrong ways are to go about supps in terms of knowledge or usage.

I think the part about diet has resonated most with me. Especially considering Im not after a body builder's body just some extra size and tone. I have been given a program by my PT and Im working hard in the gym.

Though Patrick Swayze still said it best.... "Thank god there's still a sport for middle sized, white guys!" ;)

[nni 0]

This is a really good thread. Thanks for your help guys. I guess I started it to gauge some opinions on supps as a whole. Not to see what the right and wrong ways are to go about supps in terms of knowledge or usage.

I think the part about diet has resonated most with me. Especially considering Im not after a body builder's body just some extra size and tone. I have been given a program by my PT and Im working hard in the gym.

Though Patrick Swayze still said it best.... "Thank god there's still a sport for middle sized, white guys!" ;)

diet is the key to fitness regardless of build.

check out bb.com its a wealth of info, ill help you there as well :)

[IceBeans13 0]

As someone stated before, the amount of wrong info here is mind-boggling. Most people here are speaking based on empirical evidence or crap they read on bodybuilding sites which are pretty much based on a greater amount of empirical evidence.

I'm about to get my B.S. in nutrition and food science this spring and could confidently say that what you need is just a sound diet. But don't take anyone's word on it from this board, including mine; go to your local library or university library and find a basic college textbook on nutrition and check out the fitness or sport nutrition chapter. It'll be much more informative and have information based on actual research (GASP) yet will only take about 30 minutes to read.

[nni 0]

As someone stated before, the amount of wrong info here is mind-boggling. Most people here are speaking based on empirical evidence or crap they read on bodybuilding sites which are pretty much based on a greater amount of empirical evidence.

I'm about to get my B.S. in nutrition and food science this spring and could confidently say that what you need is just a sound diet. But don't take anyone's word on it from this board, including mine; go to your local library or university library and find a basic college textbook on nutrition and check out the fitness or sport nutrition chapter. It'll be much more informative and have information based on actual research (GASP) yet will only take about 30 minutes to read.

yes, but being as this thread is asking for a SUPPLEMENT and not diet, that is why the answers came. also there is tons of research (GASP) proving that a combination of carbohydrates and proteins post workout are beneficial to recovery and anabolism.

i understand you are about to get your BS in nutrition, but that doesnt mean all supplements have no merit. diet is always number one, somewhere else down the line supplements have there place, and there is a lot of data out there to back it up.

[IceBeans13 0]

A combination of carbohydrates and protein being beneficial to anabolism is basic nutrition (GASP! two of the primary macronutrients!); I'm not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me, but whatever...when in rome.

As for supplements, I never said they were all useless, sure some have merit, but chances are they're not the ones he's thinking of or the ones you'll find in your musclehead magazines with "research" funded solely by the company making the claim.

If he's asking questions about supplements he should have a basic understanding of the driving force behind his success in bulking (aside from exercise), which is diet. Once he has a basic knowledge he can better judge for himself whether what he reads on msg boards or in magazines is bs or might help.

I'm not preaching what he should try or not try, I was just making the point that what he's told online will often be contradictory and often just plain wrong. If he invests less than an hour in reading he can form a foundation of knowledge that will make it less likely for him to get taken in by hype and anecdotes.

[nni 0]

i find nutrionist and dieticians are often clueless when it comes to supplements, and just write them off as useless. in some cases they are right, in others they are wrong. workouts should always be followed by a meal, lets say 45-60 minutes afterwards, but in that 15 minute window that is where the carb+protein drink comes into play.

and very few supplement companies fund their own studies, and if they were crap, they would never be published in a peer reviewed journal, so it is easy to read through the bs. most use a university to do this, and a university wouldnt tarnish its name for a quick buck from a supplement company. most of the research you see in ads was dont by independant scientists, and the companies find them, and use them to promote their product. trust me, you spend hours flipping through journals looking for a newly studied ergogenic aid, unless you arent a reputable company, and then you just make things up.

[IceBeans13 0]

It's not that dietitians are clueless, they are cautious and don't take one or two studies as proof that substance x will help you bulk up; they are also not as concerned with sports supplements as dietitians focus on nutrition and its relation to pathology.

I don't know why you keep bringing up the post workout meal and if you're trying to use it to make a point for or against supplements, but post workout meals are considered diet and I'm in complete agreement with you in its impact on recovery.

I'm pretty sure we're agreeing on principle and arguing about nothing. I agree that university performed and independent studies are usually reputable, but because a study was performed and some findings were found doesn't mean the product works; it takes many studies and years of research to establish cause and effect. The supplement industry can make claims that are unsupported because of the DSHEA act. Fact of the matter is, companies will make claims that will sell products, whether or not your perception of them being reputable. Are all products bogus and unhelpful? No, and I never said that, but one must proceed cautiously in an industry that answers to no one except civil lawsuits if a customer sues, not the government.

I don't want to continue this argument. I was simply suggesting that he shouldn't take nutrition advice from random people online (including myself) and rather read a simple chapter so that he can become a discerning judge of products he can check out at his local supplement shop. Sports nutrition also includes supplements, which he was asking about, and typical chapters on the subject include very useful information on many supplements AND macronutrients. If he wants to avoid reading and just go by the advice of people online, that's fine too, as it's unlikely that anything you'd find at GNC would hurt anything more than his wallet. I just seem to prefer prudence.

[joelnmich 0]

does beer help?

Carb loading?

[willy0314 0]

if your looking to make negative progress in every area other then becoming and out of shape fat ass - then yes alcohol is great for that.

[joelnmich 0]

That was a joke...sorry no smiley

[BMcDonald19 0]

the best one i used, number two on the wendy's menu its awesome...

[hockeyplayah18 0]

creatine ethyl ester..gets you in shape drastically..

and its not creatine monohydrate that just fills your muscles up with water