Help me improve my team

[srv2miker 0]

Here's my situation:

I play starting D in bottom-level beer league, on the 2nd worst team in the league. I'm one out of 3-4 guys on the team with any hockey sense at all, and our play in the defensive zone is really starting to kill us. We've got one player who's leading the league in scoring, and he's good for 2-3 goals a game, but once he's shut down we're useless in the offensive zone, so we really need to get a lead and hold it.

After our first few losses, we sat down as a team and explained everyone's role in defensive zone - no one has the excuse that they don't know where to be. But time and time again forwards are leaving their checks, or not covering their zones. Let me get a couple of examples off my chest (from the game we lost 8-6 despite being up 4-0):

1. D men are battling in with all 3 opposing forwards in front of the net, center is no where to be seen. The forwards are joined by a pinching dman, and they overwhelm us 4-2 down low and score. Turns out a winger let his defensive check get away, and the center who was supposed to be covering the slot decided to go for a change.

2. It's 5-1, and I'm sitting on the bench watching the play. I see our winger start to creep towards center, despite us having absolutely no possession of the puck. I yell at him to stay on his man, and he looks right at, but he ignores my advice. Sure enough his d pinches in and gets an uncontested shot at net that goes right in. Exact same play happened again with a different forward later in the game, and all of sudden its 5-4, and they got on a roll and finished us off.

How do I get the players on the team to buy into defense, when all the forwads want to do is seagull for breakaways etc? We have a practice coming up in two weeks and we're going to go over defensive positioning again - how do I get the guys to take what they learn in practice and use it in game situations? This doesn't even being to address the problems we have with breakouts/passing etc., but if we could at least play in our zone properly we'd stand a chance.

[Jordan 13]

Hmmm.

Been there done that. Got sucked into playing for a friend's team like this last year. In the end it made my head hurt, and I didn't play for them this year.

I don't really have any advice...I just sort of can feel your pain brother. My favourite moment was one time I see one d-man caught up deep in the offensive zone, with the other d-man and both wingers(yup both wingers) on the other side of the offensive zone fighting with one guy from the other team for the puck on the half boards.

I was playing center, I race back in time to face a 2 on 1, I play it straight and the puck carrier is forced to shoot, and he scores. I get back to the bench, and one of the d-men who was caught on the play starts giving me the business about how I played the 2 on 1 (he thought that I was supposed to take the shooter). I just about cracked him a good one.

Anyhow, I don't like the odds that you face with this one...good luck !

[gxc999 7]

I know this might sound dumb, but try offering material rewards. For every win, pizza, beer, adult magazines (lol) etc. See if you can find one other player to partner up with in this department. This is what always happens in pickup games too, the joys of cherry picking

[ktang 34]

I don't know if this is an option, but you might have to tough it out this season and then switch teams.

If your team-mates don't want to listen to you and the guys who know what you're doing, your telling them what to do could make them ostracize you and their defensive play won't improve.

If you say nothing, they won't hate you but, again, their defensive play won't improve.

Either way, their defensive play isn't going to improve.

I've been in your position on a few beer-league teams. On one team they listened to me and another player, and really improved (enough to surprise the 1st-place team in the playoffs, and then get to the final series). On another they eventually bought into the system after blowing a number of games they were leading in (enough to surprise the 3rd-place team in the playoffs). On the last team, the team just didn't want to defend; it's hard work and there's no glory in it. I think your team is like that last one.

-------

But, if you want to try to change things, the way we did it was to introduce the defensive concepts on the board before the games (we did box+1 because the centres were the best skaters on the forward lines, and then penalty killing just became a box-without-the-1) and talked about D-zone breakdowns after the game over some beers. You have to hurry, though; playoffs will be here soon, and I guess your first round opponent will be the 1st or 2nd place teams.

[Zamboni 6]

Sometimes even the simplest D zone coverage is too much for beginners once the excitement of actual game play gets their adrenaline flowing. Not speaking of the selfish cherry picking, playing for a breakaway type guy even when your protecting a lead but you may be able to reach some players who care more about winning than personally scoring.

Emphasis playing 'inside' your man, always being btw your man and net, btw your man and puck in D zone. Stress there will be no 'long bombs' to forwards behind opponents D....when pucks in your end this is our "breakout play" Practise that breakout drill, really work on it-everyone coming back, knowing where to be wins games. This works with kids....works with Juniors....so solid positional play should work in beer league.

2 deep on puck, always assuming your teamate is going to lose battle for puck, cough it up etc is way to play if overmatched in ability. The best coach I know always has teams that overacheive using that 'system'....man playing the puck is never last man, his teams rarely give up odd man rushes.

[srv2miker 0]

Would benching guys make a difference? There's one particular culprit in my mind that just doesn't give a shit about defense (and only has 4 pts to show for all his offense). I'd feel like crap benching a guy when we all pay to play, but we're running out of options here. Positive rewards never work, because he never does anything right to begin with. I want this to be fun for all the guys, but its not going to be fun for me unless we start becoming competitive. What am I left with?

[ktang 34]

Would benching guys make a difference? There's one particular culprit in my mind that just doesn't give a shit about defense (and only has 4 pts to show for all his offense). I'd feel like crap benching a guy when we all pay to play, but we're running out of options here. Positive rewards never work, because he never does anything right to begin with. I want this to be fun for all the guys, but its not going to be fun for me unless we start becoming competitive. What am I left with?

I don't think you should bench in beer leagues, because as you said you all pay to play. However, for some getting a point every 8 games is the reason for paying and playing, and for others winning as a team is. I really think you have to tough it out this season and change teams next season.

[flyerman 0]

Well, I'm in a similar situation with one of the teams I play for. The newer forwards have no clue what to do defensively. The centers swoop around and seem to cover everything but the slot. The defensemen are constantly out of position chasing. We lose a lot. It's incredibly frustrating when I let it get to me.

That said, I have two points:

1) It's beer league, and bottom level at that, so it's to be expected. I have found that the best thing I can do is calmly point out some of these things on the bench, in between periods, and before games. Guys that are just trying to learn and have some fun for the most part hate being singled out and berrated in front of the team during a game. Sometimes I even ask, "dude, can I give you some advice?" instead of letting go a barrage of unsolicited feeback.

2) Sounds like you guys have the luxury of practice time. Well, this is where you can work on defensive role drills over and over. If they respect you and what you are coaching, this buy in will happen naturally from the stuff you practice on the ice and go over before practice and games. It's really quite simple to me regarding beginning forwards: wings cover the points, centers cover the open guy in the slot while facing the play. Just keep preaching it and sooner or later the guys will get it. Backchecking is an entirely different story, which in beer league is more about hustle, work ethic, and will than understanding their role defensively.

[gxc999 7]

Would benching guys make a difference? There's one particular culprit in my mind that just doesn't give a shit about defense (and only has 4 pts to show for all his offense). I'd feel like crap benching a guy when we all pay to play, but we're running out of options here. Positive rewards never work, because he never does anything right to begin with. I want this to be fun for all the guys, but its not going to be fun for me unless we start becoming competitive. What am I left with?

You clearly know your hockey fundamentals and I wouldn't worry whether or not they like you, as long as they respect you. I completely agree that losing all the time stinks, it's far better to go to the championship as a role player then lose every game as a star.

[jeffw 1]

Someone posted this video awhile back and I sent it to my teammates. Helped with some of the less experienced guys to know where they're supposed to be.

[JPB_69 0]

I just can't get over the fact that you have practice....

[Cue 0]

Sounds like my team too, and your location made me question if you were one of my teammates, but looking over my team game history, we have never been up 4-0. :P

[Abubaca 0]

Awwww man, I feel your pain. We actually have some pretty darn good skaters who don't know a thing about playing hockey. Funny, no one assumes because you can walk, you'll be a good golfer, yet learn to skate and suddenly that means you know how to play hockey!!!

.....anyhow, I don't have a lot of good advice for ya. That video link is pretty good. I actually saved it for some of my guys!

Good luck, and remember, at the end of the day, beer league is about fun and beer! ...but I totally understand your frustration.

[srv2miker 0]

Someone posted this video awhile back and I sent it to my teammates. Helped with some of the less experienced guys to know where they're supposed to be.

Thanks for the link. Funny thing is, I already pasted that same video on our team's Facebook page weeks ago - didn't really do much good. I highly recommend guys checking it out though, as it's a very clear video on defensive positioning.

[jeffw 1]

Yeah, it doesn't do any good if the guys don't buy into it.

[number21 3]

As someone who started playing in my mid-twenties, i was kind of all over the place on the ice with my first team. Don't forget for new players, it can be overwhelming out there!

What helped me a few of the better guys just talked to me on the bench or after the game, explaining the positioning and zones a bit more. It took sometime, but my positing improved quickly because I know I am not going to be a big scorer out there.

So if you can, talk to some of the new players casually about it. You know ask if they want some advice or start off with a compliment with what they are doing right and add the "but if you work on xxxxx it would help out". Don't just bark orders at people, that doesn't help the guys who don't know all the ins and outs of the game.

I am not sure what to do with the experienced guys who want to just score and not play as a team.

Good luck.

[Law Goalie 147]

Serious suggestion: have a talk with your goalie.

It sounds an awful lot like he's not talking with the defense, which is what he ought to be doing. He may not be doing it, or not doing it enough; you'd be very surprised how much loopy players will listen to a vocal goalie with a note of desperation in his voice.

Case in point. One of the lower-tier teams I play for used to be absolutely hopeless on D. I sat them down after the first few games and said, "Just listen to me. I can see the whole ice, and I know who's dangerous." I started calling everything from assignments to positionals to breakouts. I didn't even notice things were improving until I had to sit out a game because of foot problems. My replacement was plenty capable, but the poor guy got hung out to dry. The team played their worst defensive game in two years -- couldn't clear, couldn't cover anyone, running around like chickens with their heads cut off.

That's when I realised I was the head. :)

[ctaz 0]

I think getting them to buy into the system is a simple matter of what the overall goals for the team are. I play twice a week in 2 different D leagues.

Guy Incognito started the first one and I started playing D for this team the first session. We didn't do great because there were a lot of new players and our goalie was kinda junk, but everyone that joined the team knew that one of the goals for the team was to improve. So Scott, setup a system of captains out of the guys with the most experience and knowledge that the newer guys could turn to for advice. The next session we had to replace 2-3 guys and I moved into net. I'm a vocal goalie and I move a little bit easier than the old one, so that helped a bit. Everyone would work on their own a bit and we'd try to keep lines the same each week so that players got comfortable. About a year later now over half the team is still there from day 1 and we're all having fun and being competitive.

I know personally I can deal with losing it's not being competitive that bothers me. I've found when the team is always loosing and never in the game that the team gets frustrated and it starts not to be fun.

I just started a team last session, we had 4 new skaters that had never played a game before, 2 new skaters that had only played the session before and a goalie that had only been playing for about 6 months. We lost every game, but we managed to tie our last game. It was probably the most fun I've ever had playing hockey recently. We played a lot of game 4-3, 7-6, 7-5, etc. as well as games where the score didn't reflect how closely we played the team, which one ref mentioned to me after we lost to a team 4-1. This session we returned everyone except for our goalie (fee issue) and 1 USMC reservist who was activated and going to Iraq for the next year. Everyone else returned. I let everyone know that the team had 5 goals for each session. 1) everyone to pay on time 2) have fun 3) improve 4) be competitive and 5) win.

Maybe it's just finding the right group of guys with the right attitude, but I've hardly ever had to approach any of the guys on my team other than simple reminders about not leaving their point in the D-zone. About 2 games into the last session, one of the new skaters even emailed me asking if I would work the lines so that they could play with a more experience center, who could give them advice inbetween shifts and out on the ice. I had setup the lines so that the 3 new skaters that were forwards could play together since they were all friends and knew each other before joining the team.

As far as D-zone coverage I think it's best to keep it simple. Wingers don't go below the hash marks and stay on their points. the center and D-men play the slot and the corners in a rotation based system so that there are always 2 guys in front of the net, each on a man.

Breakouts are hard to teach if you have players that can barely skate and it is one of our weaker points. I usually tell them that after we gain posession of the puck they have to get open for a pass from our D and that if the D doesn't see anything it forces him to either skate it out himself of send it high off the glass and hope that it clears/isn't icing.

You've got practice ice, work on the simple stuff.

i.e. break down the breakout into a simple passing drill have 2 guys defend against it one guy pressuring the puck and another forcing the winger to get open for the pass from the D.

We can purchase practice ice inbetween sessions and I usually make it a point to grab at least 2 of the 1 hour sessions they offer. I usually work with the team on skating, passing, and shooting. D-zone coverage is something that can be shown on a dry-erase board if you've got one and isn't something that I'd waste ice time on. I carry our dry-erase board to the bench every game, a small one fits well in a duffle bag with our pucks.

Another suggestion is maybe find another player that knows what he's doing and have him help you in trying to teach the team, sometimes just one player teaching doesn't work. It's easier to buy in when someone else that is better than already buys into it other than the person trying to teach it.

I definitely agree with Law Goalie, a vocal goalie can really help a newbie team when it comes to D-zone play.

Now if anyone can help me figure out how to prevent guys from just throwing the puck up to the point to clear the zone and giving the other team an open shot, let me know, because that's another big problem some of my newer guys are having. I'm thinking it's just a confidence/experience thing.

[JR97 2]

I know your pain. How far into the season are you? That last time I was in that situation, I just focused on my game. It's really the only thing you can control in a beer league. It's not like you can bench guys or healthy scratch'em. Anywho, I was a D on that team and would single out the best player on the team and shut'em down. I didn't care if I touched the puck or not. It's the only thing that made me even show up some nights. While my stats sucked, my defensive play got a lot better and I got recruited by a few teams for the next season.

[ramensandwich 1]

have a thorough lesson on basic positioning. if you can get everyone to stay in their position for 1 game, i think they'll see how much better they performed.

[Law Goalie 147]

I know your pain. How far into the season are you? That last time I was in that situation, I just focused on my game. It's really the only thing you can control in a beer league. It's not like you can bench guys or healthy scratch'em. Anywho, I was a D on that team and would single out the best player on the team and shut'em down. I didn't care if I touched the puck or not. It's the only thing that made me even show up some nights. While my stats sucked, my defensive play got a lot better and I got recruited by a few teams for the next season.

Neat idea. I'll try that when I skate out a couple of times this season. I hadn't thought of trying to shadow specific people from D, as opposed to doing it as a winger.

I usually just hang out in front of the net, since I'm a reasonably well-trained shot-blocker, heh.

[Taoism 0]

I played in a beer league team that had the same problem. Everyone on the team had played in high school or juniors. Even had a cpl college guys would show up occasionally. we never had the same team week to week which made it hard to implement any real game plan.

Myself, I am self taught. I never played as a kid, never had any skating lessons. But as one of the other posters said I was quite comfortable with the fact that i was not gonna contribute offensively so I played sound defense positionally and did what I was told by the guys who had a clue. I got some game, right up till the puck touches my stick. :P

The turning point for our team was playing a game short handed. We had 4 skaters and a goalie for a playoff game. lemme tell ya it sucked. But being short a guy the whole time really made everyone be responsible defensively. nobody chilled on the blue line waiting to cherry pick. Everyone kept to their zones and when we got opportunities we capitalized. It was one of the most gratifying things I have ever been a part of to beat the consensus 2nd best team in the league with 4 guys while they had 2 full lines and 5 D. After that everyone listened when the captain told them how we were gonna play cause they saw that it could work, even short handed if everyone did their job and played hard.

I am not suggesting you play a league game short a man. I would not wish that on anyone. But you do have practice time. If you have enough bodies do a scrim with one team short handed, preferably manned with decent skaters. Or go with the players who listen. They probably won't win, (still not sure how we pulled it off) but it's hard for anyone to not stick out like a sore thumb if they are not keeping up with their defensive zone responsibilities when you are short one dude.

Accountability is key i think. the desire in most people to be the guy scoring all the time is generally someone who wants to feel good about himself and be respected by his mates. And I for one have a lot more respect for a guy who busts his ass and gets zero points while doing his job than i do for guys who hang at the blueline waiting for the puck while their check roams about unattended. I think most "team" players would agree. So you gotta figure out how to demonstrate that playing well defensively is just as important and will get the player more respect than slacking and getting a goal every now and then. There needs to be some consequence for letting the team down as well. On our team it was the guys who messed up who had to bring beer the next week.

It helps if the guys are all friends as most people don't like to dissapoint friends, but that is not always gonna be the case.

I wish you luck. Getting people to play as a team, and not just a bunch of guys wearing the same shirt is tough at that level of play.

[Abubaca 0]

Unfortunately, I think that at the end of the day, if people don't want to learn, they just won't learn. On my team, I've got two or three of the lower level guys who constantly are talking to me about positioning, strategy, etc. etc., and it's CLEAR that their game is improving. We've also got 2 or 3 of the better skaters who refuse to play team hockey. They apparently feel they're good enough, and don't need to get better. You can give advice, but.....you know, you can tell they don't really listen.

We're taking about 90% of the team and entering a second league at another rink this spring, and I'm captaining this team. I've got some really interesting ideas based on our strengths and weaknesses, and I'm interested to see how the implementation of these things will work out.

[jeffw 1]

I've got the opposite problem. I have a guy on my team who's been playing a few years but can barely skate & has no clue where he's supposed to be. We tell him repeatedly that all he has to do in the d zone is cover the point but he runs around chasing the puck like a mite. When he's on the bench he's the first guy to give advice to the more experienced guys on the team & tell them where they're supposed to be & what they should've done.

There's a couple young college players on my team that are the cream of the crop in our beer league. This guy went to one of their college games and during the intermission went to their locker room & asked the coach if he could say a few words, lol.

[Law Goalie 147]

And how long did it take him to get out of the garbage can afterwards?