Some Thoughts on Skate Marketing

[JJStripes 1]

A couple friends of mine who play minor pro got new skates in the past week. They both got XXXX's. When asked why they went with XXXX's they simply said that it's because they have been wearing Bauer their whole lives.

I'm in the same situation. I have been in Bauer since day one and there has never been a time when I was willing to take a chance on something else. If it's not broken then why spend $500 on something that might not work out.

I guess the key to being number one in the industry is getting kids in your skates. Once you get hooked it's tough to change. Just don't make any big mistakes and it's a done deal.

The way I see it there are a couple factors that determine what skates kids wear.

First of all, the brand has to offer skates in everyone's price range. Bauer does a great job of this and Graf does not. If Bauer gets a kid in a low end skate early on then they will likely upgrade in the future.

Kids have to want to wear the skates. Kids like to wear what their idols and friends wear. Sydney Crosby is turning 8 year olds into life long CCM/RBK customers. Bauer does the same thing.

Parents who have played hockey like to buy the same skates that they used to wear because they trust that everything will be alright because it worked for them.

It's all about getting your company's skates on the feet of 8 year olds.

[GrafPro55 0]

A couple friends of mine who play minor pro got new skates in the past week. They both got XXXX's. When asked why they went with XXXX's they simply said that it's because they have been wearing Bauer their whole lives.

I'm in the same situation. I have been in Bauer since day one and there has never been a time when I was willing to take a chance on something else. If it's not broken then why spend $500 on something that might not work out.

I guess the key to being number one in the industry is getting kids in your skates. Once you get hooked it's tough to change. Just don't make any big mistakes and it's a done deal.

The way I see it there are a couple factors that determine what skates kids wear.

First of all, the brand has to offer skates in everyone's price range. Bauer does a great job of this and Graf does not. If Bauer gets a kid in a low end skate early on then they will likely upgrade in the future.

Kids have to want to wear the skates. Kids like to wear what their idols and friends wear. Sydney Crosby is turning 8 year olds into life long CCM/RBK customers. Bauer does the same thing.

Parents who have played hockey like to buy the same skates that they used to wear because they trust that everything will be alright because it worked for them.

It's all about getting your company's skates on the feet of 8 year olds.

Yep. Marketing trumps product. If your kid says "I want 9K skates because Crosby wears them!", and you buy them, you are only hurting him.

[TBLfan 25]

...Bauer also has good customer service.

[srv2miker 0]

A couple friends of mine who play minor pro got new skates in the past week. They both got XXXX's. When asked why they went with XXXX's they simply said that it's because they have been wearing Bauer their whole lives.

I'm in the same situation. I have been in Bauer since day one and there has never been a time when I was willing to take a chance on something else. If it's not broken then why spend $500 on something that might not work out.

I guess the key to being number one in the industry is getting kids in your skates. Once you get hooked it's tough to change. Just don't make any big mistakes and it's a done deal.

The way I see it there are a couple factors that determine what skates kids wear.

First of all, the brand has to offer skates in everyone's price range. Bauer does a great job of this and Graf does not. If Bauer gets a kid in a low end skate early on then they will likely upgrade in the future.

Kids have to want to wear the skates. Kids like to wear what their idols and friends wear. Sydney Crosby is turning 8 year olds into life long CCM/RBK customers. Bauer does the same thing.

Parents who have played hockey like to buy the same skates that they used to wear because they trust that everything will be alright because it worked for them.

It's all about getting your company's skates on the feet of 8 year olds.

Yep. Marketing trumps product. If your kid says "I want 9K skates because Crosby wears them!", and you buy them, you are only hurting him.

I'd say Tyler is right on - It's all about getting your company's skates on Crosby, so the 8 year olds will want to buy them. Lack of pro exposure kills brands.

[GrafPro55 0]

I coached a kid who said "I hate Crosby because he is a whiner". I high fived that little man.

The bottom line is, there are "product" companies and "marketing" companies. A perfect company would develop an outstanding product and then find a way to market it. Old Bauer was good at that. Old CCM as well. But the companies that bought them are leaning way harder to marketing only. "Who cares if the product isn't that great, if we stick it on a golden boy, it will sell".

[sinkhole84 0]

I coached a kid who said "I hate Crosby because he is a whiner". I high fived that little man.

i will too.

[LkptTiger 1]

Yeah, you're right: the One90/One95 wasn't/isn't innovative enough to show a significant dedication to the development of a product.

The allegation that NBH is resting on their laurels is, in my opinion, a ridiculous one (even though they could have done so and still been successful - I'm still buying every pair of Vapor 10s I can find in a 7.0 D).

[mack 44]

Someone remind me what that last new skate Graf came out with was. Seriously, it's sour grapes to goof on the Big Two about how they handle business when they actually produce new technology.

[epstud74 24]

If Graf Canada is going to adopt their European partner's philosophy regarding endorsements and style, they better make up for it in other areas. Graf Switzerland has put out a quality product for a long time, but common sense needs to prevail. What may work in Europe for Swiss Graf may not work in North America where the competition is more numerous and the demands of the consumer are greater. Plenty of shop owners on here have complained about Graf Canada's service problems or lack of attention being paid to speeding up their service and resolution process. This is mind boggling because Graf Canada has a unique opportunity to gain a larger share of the market but need to change some of their philosophies and business model regarding service. I dont think JR says Graf makes crappy skates, but why stock something when you can get better service from your Bauer or Mission reps? It puts a shop owner in a tough spot when a kid buys a $450 pair of Grafs and the warranty and dealer service departments are slow to respond when something goes wrong. People pay an outrageous amount of $$$ for hockey gear.. .Maybe the reps and execs need to start thinking like businessmen and not ex-hockey players.

[JJStripes 1]

I coached a kid who said "I hate Crosby because he is a whiner". I high fived that little man.".

Do you guys really think Crosby is a whiner? He is an awesome hockey player and he deserves more respect than comments like that give him. He did not just suddenly get good. He has worked his butt off for years to get where he is today. Whiners don't show the commitment and dedication that Crosby has shown to accomplish what he has.

If you want to high-five the kid for not buying skates based on what NHLers wear them then great, but this kid is not justified in hating Crosby, and neither are you for praising him.

[GrafPro55 0]

Someone remind me what that last new skate Graf came out with was. Seriously, it's sour grapes to goof on the Big Two about how they handle business when they actually produce new technology.

Tell me what this "new technology" is. I didn't bring up the subject. I just find it insulting when a marketing company like RBK or Nike buys a legitimate company like CCM or Bauer and starts trying to tell us that they reinvented the skate with "new technology".

[mack 44]

It's sometimes big and noticeable (those skates, I think they're called One90s) and they're small things, but very awesome (skate locks). No one needs to keep trying to re-invent things but coming from someone apparently at Graf, calling these other guys for being on their laurels is rofl.

[TBLfan 25]

I coached a kid who said "I hate Crosby because he is a whiner". I high fived that little man.

The bottom line is, there are "product" companies and "marketing" companies. A perfect company would develop an outstanding product and then find a way to market it. Old Bauer was good at that. Old CCM as well. But the companies that bought them are leaning way harder to marketing only. "Who cares if the product isn't that great, if we stick it on a golden boy, it will sell".

So the one90 and U+ have nothing to with attempting to develope a good product? Look at NBH, they make the one90. It's a breakthrough in how a skate is made, how it forms to your foot... It's lightweight and protective, it never claims to be durable but some have found it durable... it's using a new flexible tendon guard in an attempt to help flex. Has new holders. Holders are proven to be undurable so, LS2.1 is born. Tendon guard breaks from people using them as a lever to take off their skates, fixed with one95. Skate is too shallow and line is too confusing, fixed with one95. If you think NBH is just a marketing campaign and not putting out innovative products you are blind.

Easton has been making innovations, unfortunetly, it hasn't been doing very well for durability... But it's getting better.

Mission, well mission is probably the company willing to take the biggests risks by trying new things.

CCM, The U+. They've been behind the times for a little bit, using flash and bright laces(started by graf) to sell skates. RBK, had a pump which was a reattempt at a decent idea. Yeah, it's definitely marketing but I know some people that had their issue with having their heel locked down solved by the pump. Not to mention trying out lace locks that helped a few people with their lacing issues.

Kor... I dont need to say anything about them and they arent even BIG.

Graf. Well they have a composite outsole now. And last I heard, it's doing wonderful.

Seems like there only one company that's lacking innovation here.

[GrafPro55 0]

I coached a kid who said "I hate Crosby because he is a whiner". I high fived that little man.".

Do you guys really think Crosby is a whiner? He is an awesome hockey player and he deserves more respect than comments like that give him. He did not just suddenly get good. He has worked his butt off for years to get where he is today. Whiners don't show the commitment and dedication that Crosby has shown to accomplish what he has.

If you want to high-five the kid for not buying skates based on what NHLers wear them then great, but this kid is not justified in hating Crosby, and neither are you for praising him.

Hey. That kid is entitled to his opinion. He even told me why he thinks Crosby is a whiner. I couldn't argue. I saw it too. So he got a high five.

[english15x 3]

I coached a kid who said "I hate Crosby because he is a whiner". I high fived that little man.

the product isn't that great, if we stick it on a golden boy, it will sell".

Crosby's a whiner for $2.5 million dollars that RBK gave him to endorse products? I can understand why people think Crosby is a whiner but he's a hard working player and a great one.

[LkptTiger 1]

I failed to see the relevance of the kid/Crosby anecdote to begin with, so I'm not even going to comment on it.

Someone remind me what that last new skate Graf came out with was. Seriously, it's sour grapes to goof on the Big Two about how they handle business when they actually produce new technology.

A new skate worth anything, anyways. I still say the old (Swiss) 7XXs were better skate than toilet-paper tough G-Series or the marginal Ultra Gs. I think most would probably probably agree with that assessment, as well.

TBLfan - Not necessarily a full composite outsole - clear plastic over "composite" paper.

[GrafPro55 0]

It's sometimes big and noticeable (those skates, I think they're called One90s) and they're small things, but very awesome (skate locks). No one needs to keep trying to re-invent things but coming from someone apparently at Graf, calling these other guys for being on their laurels is rofl.

I never said they are "resting on their laurels". Someone else said that. Read before you comment.

I Believe that if it isn't broken, why mess with it.

I do like lace locks, though.

As for the One90. Making a boot as hard as concrete isn't something you should be doing.

[mack 44]

They shouldn't be Puma-soft, either.

Regardless, I don't see Graf having much of a say on skate marketing since it's been going downhill for some time now. I think I'd pay more attention to a Bush exit strategy.

[epstud74 24]

Those large companies are marketing successes for a reason. Nike may make tight, uncomfortable running shoes but they know how to get exposure. We will see how Bauer does without being a part of Nike and their endless pockets for research and marketing. CCM and Bauer make good products too.. Some of the new stuff is bound to have their teething troubles, but I think NBH hit a home run with the XXXX series skate and its variations such as the XXV and so on even though it is heavier than the One90. CCMs skates have always been underrated in fit and performance in my opinion and probably fit a larger number of players than its counterparts.

[GrafPro55 0]

They shouldn't be Puma-soft, either.

Regardless, I don't see Graf having much of a say on skate marketing since it's been going downhill for some time now. I think I'd pay more attention to a Bush exit strategy.

Graf isn't having a say. I am. I'm entitled to an opinion no matter how much of a market share the company I work for has in the industry.

[mack 44]

Okay, what's your opinion on marketing skates that, as much as I love some of them, peaked over 10 years ago?

[GrafPro55 0]

You might want to rethink your screen name and signature next time.

They shouldn't be Puma-soft, either.

Regardless, I don't see Graf having much of a say on skate marketing since it's been going downhill for some time now. I think I'd pay more attention to a Bush exit strategy.

Graf isn't having a say. I am. I'm entitled to an opinion no matter how much of a market share the company I work for has in the industry.

Why? I'm not hiding or ashamed of what I do.

[mack 44]

Then maybe you want to add something like those commentary sections do, saying 'ideas are not Graf's blah blah blah.'

[LkptTiger 1]

I never said they are "resting on their laurels". Someone else said that. Read before you comment.

What are you saying down here, then?

The bottom line is, there are "product" companies and "marketing" companies. A perfect company would develop an outstanding product and then find a way to market it. Old Bauer was good at that. Old CCM as well. But the companies that bought them are leaning way harder to marketing only. "Who cares if the product isn't that great, if we stick it on a golden boy, it will sell".

For all the NBH-bashing you've been doing in your short time here, they've been the industry leader where pushing the proverbial envelope is concerned. Graf is playing the catch-up game game...and doing a rather mediocre job of it, at that.

[mack 44]

It can be construed as that but he apparently means NBH is all about marketing and hasn't done much innovation. I would say it's Pot/Kettle but when one company doesn't do either it doesn't work out that way.