LHJMQ's playoffs: the other incident.

[gxc999 7]

what if they allowed hitting the goalie if they play it outside the trapezoid?

seems fair to me

I think it's a potentially good idea. The rule being that you can't clobber the goalie, but can basically shove/light check him out of the way. Goalie's playing the puck unusually can definitely cause injuries to any skaters nearby. It's also a great way to up the total number of goals per game, without overly offending the traditionalists...

[shooter27 116]

It was also lead to an incredible number of injuries.

Every guy on the ice *except* the goalie has been training to take hits since he was 12, and taking them day-in, day-out since then.

Now you want to open goalies up to full contact with zero preparation?

It would actually be less dangerous to hit the refs.

That's a pretty flimsy argument to me. It is not that hard to learn how to take a hit, it happens to you once or twice and your figure it out. Think about all the practices you've seen and all the drills you've seen, how many drills were there designed to teach kids how to take a hit?

The reality is that there are only 2-3 times a game where the goalie comes out to play the puck with an opposing player in a close enough position for this rule change to come into play. It is not a rule that will fundamentally change the way the game is played. There is the argument that it may increasing scoring somewhat, but I'm not sure I buy that either.

[chippa13 1844]

Don't forget that goalie equipment is designed to protect the goalie from pucks, not hitting. There is no protection for a goalies back.

Sure, running goalies would increase scoring because nearly every starting netminder would be out of the lineup with some kind of injury.

[Law Goalie 147]

It was also lead to an incredible number of injuries.

Every guy on the ice *except* the goalie has been training to take hits since he was 12, and taking them day-in, day-out since then.

Now you want to open goalies up to full contact with zero preparation?

It would actually be less dangerous to hit the refs.

That's a pretty flimsy argument to me. It is not that hard to learn how to take a hit, it happens to you once or twice and your figure it out. Think about all the practices you've seen and all the drills you've seen, how many drills were there designed to teach kids how to take a hit?

The reality is that there are only 2-3 times a game where the goalie comes out to play the puck with an opposing player in a close enough position for this rule change to come into play. It is not a rule that will fundamentally change the way the game is played. There is the argument that it may increasing scoring somewhat, but I'm not sure I buy that either.

I recall a great many, though somewhat vaguely. The ones that particularly stood out in my memory were a running gauntlet along the boards, a 'moose battle' of head-on no-puck hitting with a three-step start, a D-man pinning the puck to the boards getting crunched in rapid succession, a 'sitting duck' where players stood still and got run over, and a rather dangerous 'blindside' drill where a player would have to bury his head and wait for one of two guys (left and right) to run him over.

All of that is, of course, in addition to more or less daily full-contact practices which were, particularly at younger ages, very carefully supervised on both sides of any major contact. During all of this, of course, I was only paying incidental attention, since someone was invariably firing pucks at me.

Could I take a hit? Maybe. I played a fair bit of football and rugby through my teens and early twenties. Having said that, the four or five times some little shit took a run at me on the ice I usually got bowled over pretty badly.

2-3 incidents a game? Look again. I get that many in ten minutes of beer league, and I'm not exactly Ron Hextall.

Then, of course, add in all the instances of some idiot 4th-liner trying to take out a Brodeur or a Luongo to give his team a leg up.

chippa's also correct to note the differences in gear. I've also seen pro-return goalie pants with all the tailbone padding ripped out to allow more mobility. Those guys get hit and land wrong, it's a broken coccyx.

[hunterphfr 12]

I grew up playing box lacrosse in Canada. In that sport a goalie is considered to be a 6th attacker. Helping to contribute to the fast break etc. which was real common before the NLL came along and slowed the game down. The goalie would often come well out of there net to play the ball. Once out of his crease he was fair game, in a sport where the cross check is the primary form of contact.

There are some problems that this would inevitably lead to.

Goalies wear alot more equipment making it much more difficult for them to evade a check. In box you (the net was 4'x4') usually found the biggest guy you could find and put pads on him. See below link...

http://www.pbase.com/woody/image/82634144

This made him even less mobile, but much more imovable that the athletic and limmber NHL goalies of today. They absorbed a hit better. The hitter was running and thus moving slower at the point of impact. Both these factors helped keep injuries down.

Because it's a goalie the hitter always wanted to send a message by delivering a highlight reel Scott Stevens type hit. This always resulted in the goalies team trying to send a message by having 5 guys jump the hitters ass and beat on him. The hitters 4 guys would all come to his aide, and occasionally both benches would clear and an ugly tone would be set for the game.

While I see and agree with your point, it simply leads to a 70s' style free for all atmosphere. The PC people who never even plan on going to a game would be screaming for rinks to be closed and the sport banned.

Doubt me see video links earlier in the post.

[lotus 2]

my first reaction was a 'holy shit!' and then I just started laughing pretty hysterically at how blatant that was. Good hit though!

[Gummer12 134]

aye aye aye...Suckraybooo (Pardon my French)

I might try that in my men's league game tonight :-p

[brettlynch11 0]

i think this argument is always just going to be goalies vs. players.

after reading all of the posts though i feel like just being able to hit the goalie might not be the best idea, but maybe something else could be figured out. idk...any suggestions on where to meet in the middle?

[hamstercaster 2]

Ok, so I know I'm probably the only person here who feels that way, but...I've always felt that if a goalie comes out of his cage SPECIFICALLY TO PLAY THE PUCK then he should be fair game for physical contact.

If a goalie is trying to stop the puck, you can't touch him, but if he wants to handle the puck like a skater, make him fair game to get hit just like any other player. I would think this rule would allow the NHL to get rid of the stupid trapezoid they have behind the nets.

Also, I know all the arguments that if goalies are fair game it opens them up to being run, but I don't really buy them. If a player takes a 60 foot run at a goalie it is still charging or roughing, just like it would be if he took a 60 foot run at another player. In the case of the video, I would say a penalty should be called on the guy for the run he took at the goalie.

Again, I'm not advocating making goalies fair game all the time, only in the instances when they attempt to play the puck like a skater.

The problem is that he took a run at the goalie pretty much the same way Downie took a run at Donovan in the NHL (I think it was Donovan). I believe that it used to be that you could hit the goalie when he got out of the crease... but only if you were ready to get charged by the goons or other guys on the ice though ;-)

[Law Goalie 147]

Shrug. I think the trapezoid restrictions are plenty. I've seen about a dozen goals this year - and I'm by no means a highlight junkie - scored as a direct result of goaltenders mishandling the puck because of it (waiting too long, not being able to take a step to get an angle) in addition to the handful of actual penalties called.

Trust me, it ain't easy to handle the puck with those mitts. You don't need to do much to handcuff us.

Oh, yeah, one other thing. Next time you're in a shop or the dressing room, take a look at a goalie mask.

On anything other than an HM30 or a Mage (pretty rare), they're two pieces: a shell with the cage bolted on and a floating backplate.

Goalie goes head-over-heels and hits the back of his head on the ice, he's done: career-ending concussion. All that backplate does is protect you from bumping your head on the crossbar or getting whacked with an errant stick.

[Neal 41]

aye aye aye...Suckraybooo (Pardon my French)

I believe you might be thinking of sacrebleu.

[chippa13 1844]

Ok, so I know I'm probably the only person here who feels that way, but...I've always felt that if a goalie comes out of his cage SPECIFICALLY TO PLAY THE PUCK then he should be fair game for physical contact.

If a goalie is trying to stop the puck, you can't touch him, but if he wants to handle the puck like a skater, make him fair game to get hit just like any other player. I would think this rule would allow the NHL to get rid of the stupid trapezoid they have behind the nets.

Also, I know all the arguments that if goalies are fair game it opens them up to being run, but I don't really buy them. If a player takes a 60 foot run at a goalie it is still charging or roughing, just like it would be if he took a 60 foot run at another player. In the case of the video, I would say a penalty should be called on the guy for the run he took at the goalie.

Again, I'm not advocating making goalies fair game all the time, only in the instances when they attempt to play the puck like a skater.

The problem is that he took a run at the goalie pretty much the same way Downie took a run at Donovan in the NHL (I think it was Donovan). I believe that it used to be that you could hit the goalie when he got out of the crease... but only if you were ready to get charged by the goons or other guys on the ice though ;-)

Goalies have never been fair game.

[greatsave31 0]

The only thing I have against goalies being fair-game to handle the puck is their equipment is meant to block shots and not from hits from 160-200+ pound men.....

I completely agree. Now being a goalie. I love the rough stuff and fully welcome anyone who tries to check me. I currently play college now and just love when a player tries to get a little chippy. From Peewee through up until junior, If I wasnt in net I was playing defense so i learned how to check and used that as another tool in my goaltending... BUT the thing is in 80% of the plays when a goalie is playing the puck, he usually gets rid of the puck quick (at least in high skill level leagues). So this usually only leaves the goalie vulnerable for certain types of checks if goalies were in fact fair game. (1) Legal checks, from the front very very few possible occasions. (2) Illegal checks when the goalie will either get checks from behind from a forechecker; Gets checked long after he has gotten rid of the puck, which would then be interference; or if a goalie is trying to "stall" a forechecker from hitting his defenseman, then gets checked, again it would be a penalty for hitting someone without the puck. Doesn;t leave much sense to allow goalies to be "fair game" if the opportunity doesn't really present itself that much.

[BMcDonald19 0]

i agree with the goalie being fair game.. i have giving my fair share of hits like that one goalies too lol... okay maybe not that hardcore

[Hidious 0]

I don't understand why you guys are talking about the goalies being fair game. That hit wasn't even legal on any player, the guy jumped. That's an assault.

[start_today 773]

Even if checking the goalie were legal, this hit wouldn't be. The skater takes extra strides at him, leaves his feet, and the goalie had clearly moved the puck and was skating away from the play. He's not trying to dislodge the puck, he's just taking a run at someone who's not looking.

I think this clearly goes to the "complete lack of respect for opposing players" that has come up numerous times in other threads about hitting and fighting. Humans are garbage.

[brettlynch11 0]

Even if checking the goalie were legal, this hit wouldn't be. The skater takes extra strides at him, leaves his feet, and the goalie had clearly moved the puck and was skating away from the play. He's not trying to dislodge the puck, he's just taking a run at someone who's not looking.

I think this clearly goes to the "complete lack of respect for opposing players" that has come up numerous times in other threads about hitting and fighting. Humans are garbage.

this is blatent lack of respect, even if it should be legal, it isnt. so dont do that just asking for an injury

[greatsave31 0]

Even if checking the goalie were legal, this hit wouldn't be. The skater takes extra strides at him, leaves his feet, and the goalie had clearly moved the puck and was skating away from the play. He's not trying to dislodge the puck, he's just taking a run at someone who's not looking.

I think this clearly goes to the "complete lack of respect for opposing players" that has come up numerous times in other threads about hitting and fighting. Humans are garbage.

This was basically my argument a few posts up... even if they made goalies fair game it would be stupid because too many of the incidents would be illegal to check a goalie anyway.